BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

ballysmate

Probably comes as no shock to anyone that I agree pretty much with what Stevo has posted above.
The referendum didn't go the way I hoped or expected, but it did for the majority of people. The wish for OUT has clearly been gaining support and in my view would have continued to do so. If we are going to go, may as well be now, painful as it may seem, rather than wait until we are even further integrated, making exit even more painful.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean wrote:

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Incidentally, where should I be emmigrating to? I need a large multi-cultural city with tolerant citizens.

If you can get an Irish passport then try NYC

Canada? Vancouver fits the bill, although property can be pricey.

I couldn't quite put my finger on why Vancouver didn't really appeal that much, so I did some googling. I found this academic study which categorised world cities.

Turns out there are only two Alpha++ cities. Some of the Alpha+ cities would suffice though. Vancouver is a Beta.

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2012t.html

Toronto, Singapore and Amsterdam all good options

Stevo_666

Latest on the legal challenge:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/brexit-court-case-government-to-dismiss-claim-that-parliament-must-vote-on-article-50

surrey_commuter

Ballysmate wrote:

Probably comes as no shock to anyone that I agree pretty much with what Stevo has posted above.
The referendum didn't go the way I hoped or expected, but it did for the majority of people. The wish for OUT has clearly been gaining support and in my view would have continued to do so. If we are going to go, may as well be now, painful as it may seem, rather than wait until we are even further integrated, making exit even more painful.

I think it is n important distinction that the majority was amongst people who voted

I think our leaders should lead and that it was far too an important and complex decision to leave to the people. And as above it should have required an absolute majority of the electorate.

Stevo_666

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Probably comes as no shock to anyone that I agree pretty much with what Stevo has posted above.
The referendum didn't go the way I hoped or expected, but it did for the majority of people. The wish for OUT has clearly been gaining support and in my view would have continued to do so. If we are going to go, may as well be now, painful as it may seem, rather than wait until we are even further integrated, making exit even more painful.

I think it is n important distinction that the majority was amongst people who voted

I think our leaders should lead and that it was far too an important and complex decision to leave to the people. And as above it should have required an absolute majority of the electorate.

Not this again.

Crying over spilt milk will change nothing.

ballysmate

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Probably comes as no shock to anyone that I agree pretty much with what Stevo has posted above.
The referendum didn't go the way I hoped or expected, but it did for the majority of people. The wish for OUT has clearly been gaining support and in my view would have continued to do so. If we are going to go, may as well be now, painful as it may seem, rather than wait until we are even further integrated, making exit even more painful.

I think it is n important distinction that the majority was amongst people who voted

I think our leaders should lead and that it was far too an important and complex decision to leave to the people. And as above it should have required an absolute majority of the electorate.

I take your point and there is some merit to it. But the MPs who voted to pass the referendum failed to make that proviso, perhaps because they thought the result was in the bag.

Would you have felt the same way if the question had been, 'Do you think the UK should stay part of the EU?'

TheBigBean

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Toronto, Singapore and Amsterdam all good options

Perhaps, I should start a separate thread.

Amsterdam - Think this could be a good choice. Bit of uncertainty over ability to work there though which is true for anywhere at the moment.
Toronto - Too cold for my family, too far from anywhere, too car-centric.
Singapore - Too many rules, too sanitised. KL might be preferable.

I'll admit I didn't mention any of these criteria in my opening post.

joelsim

It definitely isn't time to move on. This is a fight until the moment we officially leave. It's far too important not to.

There's been a large mobilisation this week in favour of challenging the govt, including Labour belatedly entering the fray. Last week's conference has not done the Tories any good whatsoever, it's merely stirred up the opposition.

There is a long way to go in this battle, it's just beginning.

briantrumpet

Joelsim wrote:

It definitely isn't time to move on. This is a fight until the moment we officially leave. It's far too important not to.

There's been a large mobilisation this week in favour of challenging the govt, including Labour belatedly entering the fray. Last week's conference has not done the Tories any good whatsoever, it's merely stirred up the opposition.

There is a long way to go in this battle, it's just beginning.

My feelings of rage and bewilderment had abated after the awfulness of the dissembling during the referendum and shock of the result, thinking that TM would somehow manage to manage to get something pragmatic past the swivel-eyed loons (ha, yes, I know, what a ridiculous hope). But the sheer unpleasantness and lunacy emanating from the Tory conference have reignited my rage.

joelsim

Good piece on the fascists here. Whatever it takes May, Rudd and the three stooges have to be brought down.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/dani-garav ... -1-4252730

joelsim

briantrumpet wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

It definitely isn't time to move on. This is a fight until the moment we officially leave. It's far too important not to.

There's been a large mobilisation this week in favour of challenging the govt, including Labour belatedly entering the fray. Last week's conference has not done the Tories any good whatsoever, it's merely stirred up the opposition.

There is a long way to go in this battle, it's just beginning.

My feelings of rage and bewilderment had abated after the awfulness of the dissembling during the referendum and shock of the result, thinking that TM would somehow manage to manage to get something pragmatic past the swivel-eyed loons (ha, yes, I know, what a ridiculous hope). But the sheer unpleasantness and lunacy emanating from the Tory conference have reignited my rage.

Exactly. It was being delayed so we all had a tiny bit of faith in May. Not any more, last week was the realisation that she's a filthy dog.

joelsim

Ignore all of my previous comments, it's all going to be fine.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10 ... dge-build/

Stevo_666

Joelsim wrote:

Good piece on the fascists here. Whatever it takes May, Rudd and the three stooges have to be brought down.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/dani-garav ... -1-4252730

This thread is descending into parody.

I think I know who you are. This bloke lived in Tooting didn't he:



Time to reform the Tooting Popular Front?

joelsim

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Good piece on the fascists here. Whatever it takes May, Rudd and the three stooges have to be brought down.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/dani-garav ... -1-4252730

This thread is descending into parody.

I think I know who you are. This bloke lived in Tooting didn't he:



Time to reform the Tooting Popular Front?

You're choosing to ignore it. There have been fascist references in a whole pile of quality publications over the last few days. For good reason.

Just for your reference, I don't consider myself a leftie. My last 3 votes have been one each for Labour, Tory and LD. In that order.

Stevo_666

TBH I don't agree with things like the Rudd statement. Being part of a mixed race family I am hardly one of the 'send them home' brigade.

But to suggest that the UK is on some slippery slope towards a situation similar to 1930s Germany is simply deluded.

joelsim

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I don't agree with things like the Rudd statement. Being part of a mixed race family I am hardly one of the 'send them home' brigade.

But to suggest that the UK is on some slippery slope towards a situation similar to 1930s Germany is simply deluded.

No one is saying it's Hitler, but we also don't want Enoch Powell as The Telegraph suggested with an article by the scumbag Simon Heffer before taking the article down yesterday.

briantrumpet

Stevo 666 wrote:

But to suggest that the UK is on some slippery slope towards a situation similar to 1930s Germany is simply deluded.

But it's a dangerous game they are playing: unleashing the beast of nationalism in order to gain advantage over your neighbours has a long history of getting out of hand. There are too many parallels to ignore the comparison out of hand: last summer I was in Serbia, and it was sobering meeting people, in a 'European' country (but outside of the EU), who had had cluster bombs dropped on their city just 16 years previously.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Toronto, Singapore and Amsterdam all good options

Perhaps, I should start a separate thread.

Amsterdam - Think this could be a good choice. Bit of uncertainty over ability to work there though which is true for anywhere at the moment.
Toronto - Too cold for my family, too far from anywhere, too car-centric.
Singapore - Too many rules, too sanitised. KL might be preferable.

I'll admit I didn't mention any of these criteria in my opening post.

Amsterdam - you have at least two years to establish residency
Singapore - if you are going off reputation then speak to people who live their. Lots of fun to be had and a great please to bring up a family.

surrey_commuter

Ballysmate wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Probably comes as no shock to anyone that I agree pretty much with what Stevo has posted above.
The referendum didn't go the way I hoped or expected, but it did for the majority of people. The wish for OUT has clearly been gaining support and in my view would have continued to do so. If we are going to go, may as well be now, painful as it may seem, rather than wait until we are even further integrated, making exit even more painful.

I think it is n important distinction that the majority was amongst people who voted

I think our leaders should lead and that it was far too an important and complex decision to leave to the people. And as above it should have required an absolute majority of the electorate.

I take your point and there is some merit to it. But the MPs who voted to pass the referendum failed to make that proviso, perhaps because they thought the result was in the bag.

Would you have felt the same way if the question had been, 'Do you think the UK should stay part of the EU?'

Absolutely. The big referendum question that was never put was the death penalty. 80% of the population wanted to bring back hanging but Parliament refused. I think this was the right decision.

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Probably comes as no shock to anyone that I agree pretty much with what Stevo has posted above.
The referendum didn't go the way I hoped or expected, but it did for the majority of people. The wish for OUT has clearly been gaining support and in my view would have continued to do so. If we are going to go, may as well be now, painful as it may seem, rather than wait until we are even further integrated, making exit even more painful.

I think it is n important distinction that the majority was amongst people who voted

I think our leaders should lead and that it was far too an important and complex decision to leave to the people. And as above it should have required an absolute majority of the electorate.

Not this again.

Crying over spilt milk will change nothing.

Read it again - I am pointing out that a majority of people in this country did not vote out

Stevo_666

Joelsim wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I don't agree with things like the Rudd statement. Being part of a mixed race family I am hardly one of the 'send them home' brigade.

But to suggest that the UK is on some slippery slope towards a situation similar to 1930s Germany is simply deluded.

No one is saying it's Hitler, but we also don't want Enoch Powell as The Telegraph suggested with an article by the scumbag Simon Heffer before taking the article down yesterday.

On the immigration point and the border controls argument for me it is about numbers and skills, not race or nationality.

Do we really want our kids and grandkids to be living in an overpopulated country? Look at some of the population growth trends recently and the forecast range.



And do we really want to have to take in those who are a complete liability such as criminals, simply because they come from a certain country?

TheBigBean

briantrumpet wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

But to suggest that the UK is on some slippery slope towards a situation similar to 1930s Germany is simply deluded.

But it's a dangerous game they are playing: unleashing the beast of nationalism in order to gain advantage over your neighbours has a long history of getting out of hand. There are too many parallels to ignore the comparison out of hand: last summer I was in Serbia, and it was sobering meeting people, in a 'European' country (but outside of the EU), who had had cluster bombs dropped on their city just 16 years previously.

Surely the moral of the Yugoslavia story is that forcing lots of different peoples to live in one country works less well than them all having independence and mkaing their own decisions? This is true of a number of former countries. This is the problem with a federal EU it would be economically stronger like the US, but utterly divided unlike the US.

Stevo_666

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Probably comes as no shock to anyone that I agree pretty much with what Stevo has posted above.
The referendum didn't go the way I hoped or expected, but it did for the majority of people. The wish for OUT has clearly been gaining support and in my view would have continued to do so. If we are going to go, may as well be now, painful as it may seem, rather than wait until we are even further integrated, making exit even more painful.

I think it is n important distinction that the majority was amongst people who voted

I think our leaders should lead and that it was far too an important and complex decision to leave to the people. And as above it should have required an absolute majority of the electorate.

Not this again.

Crying over spilt milk will change nothing.

Read it again - I am pointing out that a majority of people in this country did not vote out

I know.

And I'm telling you that is in the past now, so ruling out time travel how are you proposing to change it?

TheBigBean

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Singapore - if you are going off reputation then speak to people who live their. Lots of fun to be had and a great please to bring up a family.

I know people that grew up there, I know people who live there, I have met many singaporeans and I have been there. It's a perfectly pleasant place, but each to their own and it's not my first choice. It's far from my last choice.

Stevo_666

TheBigBean wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Singapore - if you are going off reputation then speak to people who live their. Lots of fun to be had and a great please to bring up a family.

I know people that grew up there, I know people who live there, I have met many singaporeans and I have been there. It's a perfectly pleasant place, but each to their own and it's not my first choice. It's far from my last choice.

Hong Kong is one of my favourites. More interesting than Singapore. And a similarly low tax rate

joelsim

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I don't agree with things like the Rudd statement. Being part of a mixed race family I am hardly one of the 'send them home' brigade.

But to suggest that the UK is on some slippery slope towards a situation similar to 1930s Germany is simply deluded.

No one is saying it's Hitler, but we also don't want Enoch Powell as The Telegraph suggested with an article by the scumbag Simon Heffer before taking the article down yesterday.

On the immigration point and the border controls argument for me it is about numbers and skills, not race or nationality.

Do we really want our kids and grandkids to be living in an overpopulated country? Look at some of the population growth trends recently and the forecast range.



And do we really want to have to take in those who are a complete liability such as criminals, simply because they come from a certain country?

I guess that all depends on whether the migrants are of working age and contribute to paying for the welfare of the elderly that we can't afford without them.

Stevo_666

Joelsim wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I don't agree with things like the Rudd statement. Being part of a mixed race family I am hardly one of the 'send them home' brigade.

But to suggest that the UK is on some slippery slope towards a situation similar to 1930s Germany is simply deluded.

No one is saying it's Hitler, but we also don't want Enoch Powell as The Telegraph suggested with an article by the scumbag Simon Heffer before taking the article down yesterday.

On the immigration point and the border controls argument for me it is about numbers and skills, not race or nationality.

Do we really want our kids and grandkids to be living in an overpopulated country? Look at some of the population growth trends recently and the forecast range.



And do we really want to have to take in those who are a complete liability such as criminals, simply because they come from a certain country?

I guess that all depends on whether the migrants are of working age and contribute to paying for the welfare of the elderly that we can't afford without them.

Trouble is, if we keep bringing in more and more to pay for the previous generation, when that generation gets old, we need to bring in even more people. And so on until we are rammed to the gills.

It is just a massive Ponzi scheme and we have to stop it at some point.

joelsim

There's far more to it than that. You know that as well as I do.

joelsim

Even the young Tories choking on their fois gras.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/y ... .pjVJenERx

Stevo_666

Joelsim wrote:

There's far more to it than that. You know that as well as I do.

You cannot avoid the numbers point despite the existence of other issues. I am simply focusing on the key long term issue as I see it.

I notice that you're not disagreeing with that part.