BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

So does having a chip on your shoulder about colonialism it would seem

cycleclinic

When is level headedness going to return. I'm tired of various polticans and the public not being able to see the obvious. I like we are all talking to a brick wall. I dont talk to brick walls. The opposition could solve this at a stroke but they refuse to act so no deal and breaking the good friday agrement and all the trouble that brings is the only alternative unless we are will to break up the u.k.

Decisions have to be made. Boris deal cannot fly. It means boarder or near boarder infrastructure. The EU wont agree to that. I dont want them to agree to that. It a regime that favours big companies and thats is not fair to smaller companies. I am off on holiday later this month. I might have a to stay an extra few days as the end of the month here is going to be far to febrile.

We are either ramining leaving with no deal or taking the WA. Those are the chocies. There are no others (realistically in the time we have left). It's make our mind up time.

Alejandrosdog

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

tailwindhome

TheBigBean wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

DrHaggis wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

I posted it more for the reference to a 'secret deal' than Peston's credentials. It occurs that it may be the cunning plan that various cabinet ministers are hinting at. As I said, I'm sceptical of Johnson's ability to pull it off, more so if his idea is just "let's just move the border posts either side of a 20mile wide strip of land. Ta-dah!".

As Boris's whole life has a been a triumph of presentation over substance is it not likely that his cunning plan is to re-present May's WA in a more upbeat manner?

I could buy this if Johson hadn't been busy burning that bridge since day 1. His rhetoric is making it impalatable for all involved to accept a compromise.

Trump school of negotiation - make outrageous claims/demands, pull back from the brink and claim victory.

The leaked idea of set back customs posts has been dismissed as out-of-date by Johnson this morning, but why it was ever put on paper when it's obvious that it wouldn't fly is anyone's guess. Peter Foster at the Telegraph reckons it *will* actually form part of formal proposals to EU.

With whom doesn't it fly?

Johnson, Dublin, EU, various informed commentators. Literally nobody supporting it.

Well, have a good laugh at me, but it looks like the start of a compromise to me.

The DUP have just rejected it too.

Mark Devenport
@markdevenport
·
21m
.
@little_pengelly
says RTE report caused surprise & dismay to many in NI - asks minister to engage with businesses to make it clear it's not govt policy as it would constitute hard border

Boris unites the country!

slowbike

The opposition parties obviously want to avoid the default no deal exit - and are trying to find a way through the various hoops.
First, rather obvious question is ... why oh why can't the Tories see that that is the will of the house - for good or bad - and go along with it.

Second - the opposition parties want to group together to form an emergency gov - which seems the most sensible option as they're collectively in the majority - so who would you chose as the interim PM and why?

I'd concur that JC wouldn't be the right man - because he's the opposition - it needs to be someone more central.
Bercow strikes me as a fair man - not sure he'd want the job though - it's somewhat different to that of speaker.

tailwindhome

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

rjsterry

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Well, we wanna be free, we wanna be free to do what we wanna do
And we wanna get loaded and we wanna have a good time
And that's what we're gonna do (away baby, let's go)…

More seriously, I can't see how public boredom is a sound basis for major decision making.

rick_chasey

It is slightly ironic that it is the remaining colonial legacies that are proving to be the most troublesome aspect to solve for Brexit.

briantrumpet

TailWindHome wrote:

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

It sounds like the cry of someone who in a drunken moment agreed to have stinging nettles inserted into his Y-Fronts, and is now regretting it, while his mates stand around laughing, with handfuls of stinging nettles, phones at the ready to capture the moment of realisation.

rolf_f

Fenix wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

The Norway/Sweden border does not seem to run too badly without armies of Scandy police in warm clothing sat at checkpoints:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41412561

Irish Border - 300 crossing points, 125,000 vehicles a day.

Swedish Border - 40 crossing points - 1300 lorries a day. 1300 staff.

So by my calculations we'd need about 125,000 border staff ?


But it's going to be the outrage of the people of Northern Ireland and Ireland that sink it. They aren't going to be happy about sitting in queues to nip into town.

Yes, but what Stevo said!!

Brexit all the way - it really, properly messes up peoples lives whilst remain doesn't mess up anyones life at all. Why are we doing this?

TheBigBean

TailWindHome wrote:

The DUP have just rejected it too.

Mark Devenport
@markdevenport
·
21m
.
@little_pengelly
says RTE report caused surprise & dismay to many in NI - asks minister to engage with businesses to make it clear it's not govt policy as it would constitute hard border

Boris unites the country!

Surely the DUP has only one red line and everything else can be bought?

cougie

Lol. JFDI.

But without defining what it is or how we can do it.

Only a fool would ask for this.

kingstongraham

TailWindHome wrote:

It should be noted that yesterday's kerfuffle on the solution to the border signified a significant movement from the UK gov and Brexiteers.

It was the first recognition that the UK will need UK customs posts on the UK side of the border.

"Who's going to build it?" is gone.

This is one of those things where the position changes 180 degrees and noone is supposed to notice it's happened.

ANPR cameras making there not need to be a border check was Coopster's suggestion from a long time ago, wasn't it?

surrey_commuter

If Govt was run like a business there would be proper analysis and if going ahead with Brexit you would make decisions to minimise the harm. Yes there would be losers but you would minimise the number and impact upon the economy. If we turned around and decided we did did give a sh1t about Ireland, farmers or fisherman we would truly gain leverage in the negotiations that could be used to protect the other 95% of the economy.

And that is a good enough reason in itself to vote remain because the UK Govt is too beholden to minority groups with disproportionate power. Our system of govt really is medieval.

TheBigBean

KingstonGraham wrote:

ANPR cameras making there not need to be a border check was Coopster's suggestion from a long time ago, wasn't it?

It was in the UK's initial proposal. Obviously the reaction was that it is border infrastructure. The existing ones were ignored.

briantrumpet

cougie wrote:

Lol. JFDI.

But without defining what it is or how we can do it.

Only a fool would ask for this.

Or someone who would rather have stinging nettles up his arse rather than lose face, but knowing deep down that the humiliation will be even greater.

Oh yes. A fool.

Alejandrosdog

Surrey Commuter wrote:

If Govt was run like a business there would be proper analysis and if going ahead with Brexit you would make decisions to minimise the harm. Yes there would be losers but you would minimise the number and impact upon the economy. If we turned around and decided we did did give a sh1t about Ireland, farmers or fisherman we would truly gain leverage in the negotiations that could be used to protect the other 95% of the economy.

And that is a good enough reason in itself to vote remain because the UK Govt is too beholden to minority groups with disproportionate power. Our system of govt really is medieval.

Hmmm alternately we could have a system of government that only championed the desires fo the metropolitan citizens over the smaller groups. then presumably preference will move to every bigger metropolitan areas until only Londoners count.

Stevo_666

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

Stevo_666

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

That's offensive to student politicians.

kingstongraham

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

Sounds like a good idea. Only way for that is another referendum.

You'd support an interim Corbyn government to achieve it?

bompington

Stevo 666 wrote:

[Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

Good idea. I knew you'd see the sense in a second referendum eventually Stevo.

Stevo_666

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

Sounds like a good idea. Only way for that is another referendum.

You'd support an interim Corbyn government to achieve it?

A GE would be a way of asking both questions in one go.

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

Sounds like a good idea. Only way for that is another referendum.

You'd support an interim Corbyn government to achieve it?

A GE would be a way of asking both questions in one go.

A GE is a very bad way of judging peoples opinion on Brexit.

kingstongraham

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

Sounds like a good idea. Only way for that is another referendum.

You'd support an interim Corbyn government to achieve it?

A GE would be a way of asking both questions in one go.

No, that would be asking a completely different question. It's not a difficult distinction.

surrey_commuter

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

If Govt was run like a business there would be proper analysis and if going ahead with Brexit you would make decisions to minimise the harm. Yes there would be losers but you would minimise the number and impact upon the economy. If we turned around and decided we did did give a sh1t about Ireland, farmers or fisherman we would truly gain leverage in the negotiations that could be used to protect the other 95% of the economy.

And that is a good enough reason in itself to vote remain because the UK Govt is too beholden to minority groups with disproportionate power. Our system of govt really is medieval.

Hmmm alternately we could have a system of government that only championed the desires fo the metropolitan citizens over the smaller groups. then presumably preference will move to every bigger metropolitan areas until only Londoners count.

FS is beyond Brexit help so I was thinking of trying to protect other strategic industries at the expense of insignificant areas that carry high emotional value to our negotiating partners

tailwindhome

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

The electorate will be asked to choose between

"Get Brexit Done"
"Bollocks to Brexit"
"We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"

Stevo_666

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

The electorate will be asked to choose between

"Get Brexit Done"
"**** to Brexit"
"We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"

As other people mention, it's a representative democracy so elect who you want to run the show then let them get on with doing it?

Stevo_666

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

Sounds like a good idea. Only way for that is another referendum.

You'd support an interim Corbyn government to achieve it?

A GE would be a way of asking both questions in one go.

A GE is a very bad way of judging peoples opinion on Brexit.

A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.

kingstongraham

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

The electorate will be asked to choose between

"Get Brexit Done"
"**** to Brexit"
"We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"

As other people mention, it's a representative democracy so elect who you want to run the show then let them get on with doing it?

I would be fine with letting MPs do what a majority of them think is best for the country, but I don't think remaining in the EU is going to fly without another referendum.

bompington

Stevo 666 wrote:

A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.

A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen. Not like some referendums I could mention.