BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

Pross

An MP talking on Radio 5 just now sounded worryingly like he knew what he was talking about on the border subject. Whether it actually made sense in reality I'm not qualified to say but paraphrasing it seemed to be that it requires a suite of different options with a trusted trader scheme that would cover the large companies doing 85% of the cross-border trade and most of the remainder being checks at origin and destination all using systems already in use around the world. People would just be as they were previously as we didn't have immigration control with Ireland before the Common Travel Area (relies on Ireland not entering Schengen which they have no desire to do anyway). However, I can't help but see the irony that one of the stated aims of Brexit (improving border security) is likely to end up being at best the same level of border security we always had and possibly less control than before!

bompington

Stevo 666 wrote:

A GE would be a way of asking both questions in one go.

Answer the following questions in the box below:

_________
| Yes | No | (delete where inapplicable)

---

Alejandrosdog

in other news I'm having sausage and mash for tea. with peas.

british sausages, Dolphin friendly packaging free and british spuds, the peas might be out if they're foreign

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

Sounds like a good idea. Only way for that is another referendum.

You'd support an interim Corbyn government to achieve it?

A GE would be a way of asking both questions in one go.

A GE is a very bad way of judging peoples opinion on Brexit.

A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.

But only a moron would vote in a GE based on one issue so a GE proves nothing about the will of the people.

I don't believe the original ref should have taken place but we are where we are and it seems the only way forwards is to have a 2nd one to confirm or reverse.

kingstongraham

I think it's unlikely that "Do you want to leave with no deal or do you want an old trot in charge for the next 5 years?" would get answers that could be classed as a representative expression of views on Brexit.

Stevo_666

KingstonGraham wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

The electorate will be asked to choose between

"Get Brexit Done"
"**** to Brexit"
"We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"

As other people mention, it's a representative democracy so elect who you want to run the show then let them get on with doing it?

I would be fine with letting MPs do what a majority of them think is best for the country, but I don't think remaining in the EU is going to fly without another referendum.

Elect the Lib Dems? They're happy to skip the second ref if they get a majority.

Stevo_666

bompington wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.

A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.

FTFY.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

The electorate will be asked to choose between

"Get Brexit Done"
"**** to Brexit"
"We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"

As other people mention, it's a representative democracy so elect who you want to run the show then let them get on with doing it?

Is that not what is already happening? Why the sudden urgency? It's taking longer than planned - like every major project ever - but so what?

tailwindhome

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

The electorate will be asked to choose between

"Get Brexit Done"
"**** to Brexit"
"We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"

As other people mention, it's a representative democracy so elect who you want to run the show then let them get on with doing it?

You're no further in defining the 'it' you want them to do

morstar

I wonder if experts could have foreseen any problems with the Irish border?

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

The electorate will be asked to choose between

"Get Brexit Done"
"**** to Brexit"
"We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"

As other people mention, it's a representative democracy so elect who you want to run the show then let them get on with doing it?

Is that not what is already happening? Why the sudden urgency? It's taking longer than planned - like every major project ever - but so what?

I think you need to ask TWH, not me.

Stevo_666

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

The electorate will be asked to choose between

"Get Brexit Done"
"**** to Brexit"
"We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"

As other people mention, it's a representative democracy so elect who you want to run the show then let them get on with doing it?

You're no further in defining the 'it' you want them to do

I suspect you would support the Lib Dems so its pretty clear isn't it?

also read my earlier post again - I said many people will want this. Not necessarily talking for myself, although as said I can sympathise.

Stevo_666

Alejandrosdog wrote:

in other news I'm having sausage and mash for tea. with peas.

british sausages, Dolphin friendly packaging free and british spuds, the peas might be out if they're foreign

I'm headed home for some tea as well. I never realised that just saying some people wanted Brexit done would sit up such a response from the enlightened 'whingerati' of Cake Stop

tailwindhome

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

The electorate will be asked to choose between

"Get Brexit Done"
"**** to Brexit"
"We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"

As other people mention, it's a representative democracy so elect who you want to run the show then let them get on with doing it?

You're no further in defining the 'it' you want them to do

I suspect you would support the Lib Dems so its pretty clear isn't it?

also read my earlier post again - I said many people will want this. Not necessarily talking for myself, although as said I can sympathise.

We've all just got older and no further forward.

darkhairedlord

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.

Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?

Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.

The electorate will be asked to choose between

"Get Brexit Done"
"**** to Brexit"
"We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"

As other people mention, it's a representative democracy so elect who you want to run the show then let them get on with doing it?

You're no further in defining the 'it' you want them to do

I suspect you would support the Lib Dems so its pretty clear isn't it?

also read my earlier post again - I said many people will want this. Not necessarily talking for myself, although as said I can sympathise.

We've all just got older and no further forward.

Don't worry, clocks go forward 4 days before brexit.

Stevo_666

darkhairedlord wrote:

Don't worry, clocks go forward 4 days before brexit.

Erm...
https://www.rmg.co.uk/discover/explore/when-do-clocks-go-back

I'm not so sure any more that remainers have the monopoly on intelligence

darkhairedlord

Stevo 666 wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Don't worry, clocks go forward 4 days before brexit.

Erm...
https://www.rmg.co.uk/discover/explore/when-do-clocks-go-back

I'm not so sure any more that remainers have the monopoly on intelligence

Only 5month out, how far out have Brex$hitters been so far?

rjsterry

Rumblings that the thing that was dismissed as not part of UK proposals this morning, may actually be part of the proposals after all.

If Peter Foster is correct, the assumption that Johnson never had any intention of getting a deal seems accurate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/st ... 1647792129

sungod

rjsterry wrote:

Rumblings that the thing that was dismissed as not part of UK proposals this morning, may actually be part of the proposals after all.

If Peter Foster is correct, the assumption that Johnson never had any intention of getting a deal seems accurate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/st ... 1647792129

once the liar johnson whored himself to the erg, it was hard to see anything but no deal

he's just a vacuous blusterer, trapped pandering to his reactionary rightwing fan club

bobmcstuff

Ah, the European Research Group - not European and certainly don't like them, don't do any research, and don't seem to be a very coherent group either...

Stevo_666

Front page of the free London rag is reporting that Johnson's offer to the EU today on the border issue is 'take it or leave it'.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

Front page of the free London rag is reporting that Johnson's offer to the EU today on the border issue is 'take it or leave it'.

A first and final offer, which includes the thing which we committed not to include looks like something designed to be rejected.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Front page of the free London rag is reporting that Johnson's offer to the EU today on the border issue is 'take it or leave it'.

Unfortunate that that offer is actually a mirror of Ireland’s no deal prep.

orraloon

To followed closely by: we have done our best, it's not our fault, it's those pesky Europeans, blame them for the chaos to come. Continuing to play to the Stupids.

rolf_f

So Boris advisors have clearly invested at least half of one afternoon in the local boozer on Brexit deal planning.....

Is "time limited backstop not acceptable" so really hard to understand? Given the credulity of the tabloid press he might as well have just called it "cake and eat it".

Pross

Stevo 666 wrote:

Front page of the free London rag is reporting that Johnson's offer to the EU today on the border issue is 'take it or leave it'.

Doesn't seem very much in keeping with his instructions from Parliament to avoid no deal does it?

Talk I heard on the news this morning was it is effectively May's deal but with an Irish Sea border as the DUP no longer hold the balance of power but that was ITV and find they are dumbing down their news coverage.

ballysmate

sungod wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rumblings that the thing that was dismissed as not part of UK proposals this morning, may actually be part of the proposals after all.

If Peter Foster is correct, the assumption that Johnson never had any intention of getting a deal seems accurate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/st ... 1647792129

once the liar johnson whored himself to the erg, it was hard to see anything but no deal

he's just a vacuous blusterer, trapped pandering to his reactionary rightwing fan club

No deal became much more likely once it became clear that the Remain leaning MPs would continue to vote down TM's deal.
The ERG members want no deal and would be expected to vote against any.
The Remainers kept voting in accordance with the ERG wishes though, leaving the only alternatives as Revoke/No deal.
As the same MPs had voted overwhelmingly to pass an Act authorising the executive to give notice of withdrawal (An Act that the SC said was necessary iirc), revoking was never a realistic option.
If we do land up leaving with no deal. it is the Remain supporting MPs that need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Stevo_666

Pross wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Front page of the free London rag is reporting that Johnson's offer to the EU today on the border issue is 'take it or leave it'.

Doesn't seem very much in keeping with his instructions from Parliament to avoid no deal does it?

Talk I heard on the news this morning was it is effectively May's deal but with an Irish Sea border as the DUP no longer hold the balance of power but that was ITV and find they are dumbing down their news coverage.

Nope. And as the EU will inevitably reject it, later this month will be interesting. For today, we'll just have to amuse ourselves with Diane Abbott standing in for Corbyn in PMQs

ballysmate

Stevo 666 wrote:

bompington wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.

A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.

FTFY.

Stevo, people on here think a GE is not a reliable way of testing the public opinion on the EU and they also think that referenda are a bad idea.
It's almost as if they think that the question should not be asked at all.

rick_chasey

Ballysmate wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bompington wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.

A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.

FTFY.

Stevo, people on here think a GE is not a reliable way of testing the public opinion on the EU and they also think that referenda are a bad idea.
It's almost as if they think that the question should not be asked at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG2SdZvhNKQ