BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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Comments

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.
    A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.
    FTFY.

    Stevo, people on here think a GE is not a reliable way of testing the public opinion on the EU and they also think that referenda are a bad idea.
    It's almost as if they think that the question should not be asked at all.
    All they need now is a time machine to go back to early 2016...
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Front page of the free London rag is reporting that Johnson's offer to the EU today on the border issue is 'take it or leave it'.

    Doesn't seem very much in keeping with his instructions from Parliament to avoid no deal does it?

    Talk I heard on the news this morning was it is effectively May's deal but with an Irish Sea border as the DUP no longer hold the balance of power but that was ITV and find they are dumbing down their news coverage.
    Nope. And as the EU will inevitably reject it, later this month will be interesting. For today, we'll just have to amuse ourselves with Diane Abbott standing in for Corbyn in PMQs :)

    Im blocking my diary and turning the phones off for that one. I hope she has some sneaky cans of Gand T on the way in.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Front page of the free London rag is reporting that Johnson's offer to the EU today on the border issue is 'take it or leave it'.

    Doesn't seem very much in keeping with his instructions from Parliament to avoid no deal does it?

    Talk I heard on the news this morning was it is effectively May's deal but with an Irish Sea border as the DUP no longer hold the balance of power but that was ITV and find they are dumbing down their news coverage.
    Nope. And as the EU will inevitably reject it, later this month will be interesting. For today, we'll just have to amuse ourselves with Diane Abbott standing in for Corbyn in PMQs :)

    Im blocking my diary and turning the phones off for that one. I hope she has some sneaky cans of Gand T on the way in.
    Maybe her public school educated kid could help her out with prepping for it?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:

    TBH I'm getting tired of hearing about the Irish issue and can sympathise with the view of many of the UK electorate towards Brexit, which is in summary 'JFDI'.

    Ah, colonial arrogance dies hard.

    Im not colonial, and I agree with Stevo, he's expressed a legitimate position. You've just tried to de legitimise it and shown your student politics again.


    Who is it you want to 'JFDI'' and what specifically is it you want them to do?
    Given it appears to be what a lot of the electorate want, then maybe the electorate should be asked? Then you'll know.


    The electorate will be asked to choose between

    "Get Brexit Done"
    "**** to Brexit"
    "We'll decide at a special conference sometime after the General Election"

    None of that will inform us as to "what specifically is it you want them to do"
    As other people mention, it's a representative democracy so elect who you want to run the show then let them get on with doing it?

    I would be fine with letting MPs do what a majority of them think is best for the country, but I don't think remaining in the EU is going to fly without another referendum.
    Elect the Lib Dems? They're happy to skip the second ref if they get a majority.

    It's another of their policies that they can throw out there knowing that they won't get a majority. Purely showing a clear intention but it's not real.

    I agree with the view that we'd be better off staying, and understand the reasons that they have announced the policy, but if they were at risk of winning, it wouldn't be responsible (unless they hit 50% of the vote, which is only slightly more unlikely than them getting a majority).
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.
    A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.
    FTFY.

    Stevo, people on here think a GE is not a reliable way of testing the public opinion on the EU and they also think that referenda are a bad idea.
    It's almost as if they think that the question should not be asked at all.


    If a GE *is* a reliable way of testing public opinion, what did the last one tell us?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.
    A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.
    FTFY.

    Stevo, people on here think a GE is not a reliable way of testing the public opinion on the EU and they also think that referenda are a bad idea.
    It's almost as if they think that the question should not be asked at all.


    If a GE *is* a reliable way of testing public opinion, what did the last one tell us?

    That the DUP needed to be consulted.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    Pross wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Front page of the free London rag is reporting that Johnson's offer to the EU today on the border issue is 'take it or leave it'.

    Doesn't seem very much in keeping with his instructions from Parliament to avoid no deal does it?

    Talk I heard on the news this morning was it is effectively May's deal but with an Irish Sea border as the DUP no longer hold the balance of power but that was ITV and find they are dumbing down their news coverage.
    They have news coverage?
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.
    A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.
    FTFY.

    Stevo, people on here think a GE is not a reliable way of testing the public opinion on the EU and they also think that referenda are a bad idea.
    It's almost as if they think that the question should not be asked at all.


    If a GE *is* a reliable way of testing public opinion, what did the last one tell us?

    That the DUP needed to be consulted.

    The British nation rose as one and said with clear voice, " Ask Arlene"?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.
    A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.
    FTFY.

    Stevo, people on here think a GE is not a reliable way of testing the public opinion on the EU and they also think that referenda are a bad idea.
    It's almost as if they think that the question should not be asked at all.
    All they need now is a time machine to go back to early 2016...
    1885 would suit most brexiters.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    TailWindHome wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.
    A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.
    FTFY.

    Stevo, people on here think a GE is not a reliable way of testing the public opinion on the EU and they also think that referenda are a bad idea.
    It's almost as if they think that the question should not be asked at all.


    If a GE *is* a reliable way of testing public opinion, what did the last one tell us?

    That the DUP needed to be consulted.

    The British nation rose as one and said with clear voice, " Ask Arlene"?

    On a more serious note, the plans BoJo is about to release have been run past Arlene, which is a step in the right direction. Of course, that is not a full consultation of the people of NI, but it's a start.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.
    A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.
    FTFY.

    Stevo, people on here think a GE is not a reliable way of testing the public opinion on the EU and they also think that referenda are a bad idea.
    It's almost as if they think that the question should not be asked at all.


    If a GE *is* a reliable way of testing public opinion, what did the last one tell us?

    That the DUP needed to be consulted.

    The British nation rose as one and said with clear voice, " Ask Arlene"?

    On a more serious note, the plans BoJo is about to release have been run past Arlene, which is a step in the right direction. Of course, that is not a full consultation of the people of NI, but it's a start.

    Just another 1,889,299 to go then.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    How long before The Troubles kick off again ? Has Johnson spent much time over in Ireland ?
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    EF3ol5XXYAAqLyT?format=jpg&name=medium

    Sam Lowe
    @SamuelMarcLowe
    · 12m
    As I know you all love infographics, this is roughly how the Johnson plan for customs checks on the Irish border would work.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Boris: This is not an anti-European party... We are European! We love Europe! I love Europe anyway. I love it.

    Conference: Uneasy muted applause
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Boris: This is not an anti-European party... We are European! We love Europe! I love Europe anyway. I love it.

    Conference: Uneasy muted applause

    More dimwittery from the Prime Liar
    The prime minister said "everyone should calm down" after he was criticised for dismissing as "humbug" an MP who told of death threats which "quote his words".

    He apologised for any "misunderstanding" and insisted he was only rubbishing the claim he has inspired aggression against MPs
    "I think I've been a model of restraint," he told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.

    So right. Everyone else needs to calm down but he, and only he has been a "model of restraint". Gobsmacking arrogance particularly from someone who has no substance to justify their arrogance.

    Latest thread title: bit pessimistic of Goo! Boris's last roll of the dice? Surely he has plenty more rolls of the dice - all double zeros like those he rolled before.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    A lot of people on this forum have said that a referendum is also a bad way of doing this. Especially when the result didn't go their way.
    A referendum is a perfectly good way to do it if everyone knows what the question means, and the possible courses of action are ones that might actually happen and the result goes the way they want it to. Not like some referendums I could mention.
    FTFY.

    Stevo, people on here think a GE is not a reliable way of testing the public opinion on the EU and they also think that referenda are a bad idea.
    It's almost as if they think that the question should not be asked at all.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG2SdZvhNKQ

    Well Rick, it appears from that clip that I have the choice as to be thick or not.
    I do feel sorry for those of you for whom choice is unavailable.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/stat ... 6600376323

    Boris' letter to Juncker
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    It’s the same old proposal if I’ve read it eight

    Max fac or whatever it was called.
    _
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    TailWindHome wrote:


    Boris' letter to Juncker
    Ahh the childlike psychology of the ERG in capitals :roll:
    If it's a fair and reasonable proposal, you don't need to spell it out in CAPITALS
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    TailWindHome wrote:


    Boris' letter to Juncker

    Thanks for posting that. Are you able to explain how the northern Ireland assembly would go about deciding whether to leave the arrangement or not? (Assuming it ever opens again). That is, if the DUP campaigned to leave and others campaigned to stay, how would it all work out in practice? Would it actually reflect the view of people in Northern Ireland?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    It’s the same old proposal if I’ve read it eight

    Max fac or whatever it was called.

    Did you actually read it?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:

    The DUP have just rejected it too.
    Mark Devenport
    @markdevenport
    ·
    21m
    .
    @little_pengelly
    says RTE report caused surprise & dismay to many in NI - asks minister to engage with businesses to make it clear it's not govt policy as it would constitute hard border



    Boris unites the country!

    Surely the DUP has only one red line and everything else can be bought?

    The price now has a name. The New Deal.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    TailWindHome wrote:


    Boris' letter to Juncker

    "Our predecessors have tackled harder problems; we can surely solve this one" - well, not that many harder problems and when did our predecessors decide to make things immeasurably harder by self imposing really tight time limits for no reason other than personal benefit?
    Faster than a tent.......
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    Explanatory Note

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... y_Note.pdf
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Explanatory Note

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... y_Note.pdf
    final sentence of section 13 is a little confusing:
    "If consent is withheld, the arrangements will not enter into force or will lapse (as the case may be) after one year, and
    arrangements will default to existing rules"

    The existing rules are those now, surely? so if they withdraw consent then it reverts to EU rules, no real border at all.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    It’s the same old proposal if I’ve read it eight

    Max fac or whatever it was called.

    Did you actually read it?

    Scanned it for about a minute, so no.
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    what is the difference between NI aligning with EU rules and staying in CU?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    How do you square "an all-island regulatory zone" for all goods with not treating NI differently from the rest of the UK?
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    what is the difference between NI aligning with EU rules and staying in CU?
    CU is tarrifs and stuff, rules is rules, as in must meet this standard or that.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    what is the difference between NI aligning with EU rules and staying in CU?

    Regulatory rules, not customs rules. So if I understand it correctly, the non-tariff regulations would be the same but you might need to pay tariffs.

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