BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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TheBigBean wrote:rjsterry wrote:
This seems relevant.KingstonGraham wrote:Longshot wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:With the EU meeting on the 17th/18th, you'd have thought he might have found some better way to use his and his minions' time.
They maybe don't need to. Word is the deal has already been done and both the EU and UK Gov are just using the remaining time to try and make political gains.
I've heard this now from three different people, all unconnected with each other, whose information is usually accurate and fairly reliable.
That of course is no guarantee that it's not pure BS.
Alternatively then, they could use the time trying to not wee-wee off the people who have to vote for it.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-30/joh ... rt-peston/
Still not convinced he can pull it off.
No insight as to whether a deal is likely, but I suspect if a deal has been done, it would be with someone other than Barnier and Juncker e.g. Varadkar, Merkel and Macron. If those three agree, I can't imagine any other country being bothered.
Peston's not worth reading on Brexit.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
The same nonsense just keeps coming back, the loop's just speeding up.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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I thought prevailing thought in Brussels was that they anticipate BoJo seriously kicking off in order to electrify his new base.0
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https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status ... 7678618626
Round and round the big wheel goes.
Where she stops nobody knows.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:
Round and round the big wheel goes.
Where she stops nobody knows.
The comments under that tweet speak volumes - for example: "Thats an even worse idea than when they actually had no idea"0 -
Johnson is giving unicorns a bad name.TailWindHome wrote:
Round and round the big wheel goes.
Where she stops nobody knows.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:The same nonsense just keeps coming back, the loop's just speeding up.
Tuesday 1st October 2019“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
rjsterry wrote:This seems relevant.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-30/joh ... rt-peston/
Still not convinced he can pull it off.
When we have journos so lacking in knowledge of the EU basics, as Pesto telegraphs clearly with that article, then it's no wonder we have politicos like BloJo (+ most of them, frankly) able to go around in circles talking the same nonsense without fear of proper scrutiny by the 4th estate.
In that article, Pesto's focus is all tariffs and customs, when the key issue is and was always NTBs - non-tariff barriers - the removal of which is the great achievement of the EU's single market and what delivers frictionless trade and no borders...
My guess is that Johnson's "plan" would/will be to announce in conference a "generous, bold, creative offer" that he and his puppeteer must know does absolutely nothing to address the issues on hand, NTBs etc. But as there are no magical solutions just waiting to be discovered if only someone looked in the right place, then it's ~99.9% probable that it will simply be a rehash of daft ideas, often deriving from the clueless Shanker Singham. "Ideas" that have already been dismissed by the EU and others over and over and over again as doing absolutely nothing to resolve the problems being created on the island of Ireland as a result of the UK leaving the EU whilst Ireland remains in the EU. And so the "generous, bold, creative offer" will be rejected again as just more nonsense.
Just as Johnson and King Dom expect will happen.
The "plan" as such, if you could call it that, would be for Johnson to then say to his hard-of-learning acolytes: "Look at those nasty JFs refusing to listen to our cunning plan or ever compromise!", ie "Look, dead cat!" Basic partisan blame game stuff that we've seen again and again...
It's all bu11sh!t, of course, basic confirmation bias stuff aimed solely at telling those already onside what they wish to hear so that they double down on their belief systems, feeling vindicated in their views and hence motivated to vote the "correct way" come the next, imminent GE. I'm sure it'll work on them. But it's not aimed at resolving the actual underlying issues for the nation.
These issues cannot be resolved without tacitly acknowledging that the whole Leave thing is predominantly a contradictory crock of nonsense cooked up by lying charlatans. The draft Withdrawal Agreement is hated by Brexiters because it takes Brexit from a idealized fantasy, upon which anything and everything can be projected, and instead fixes into the constraints and compromises of the real world. Harsh reality. In doing so, of course, it exposes the lies at the heart of the Leave campaign.
So, I look forward to the speech with great anticipation
Being hyper rational, if the evidence changes then I'll shift my views in an instant: if I've totally misjudged the serial liar Johnson and his speech this week does indeed turn out to be a "game changer" that secures an agreed deal with the EU, solving all the Irish border issues, then fair play to the fella. I'd have misjudged him. What a guy!0 -
I posted it more for the reference to a 'secret deal' than Peston's credentials. It occurs that it may be the cunning plan that various cabinet ministers are hinting at. As I said, I'm sceptical of Johnson's ability to pull it off, more so if his idea is just "let's just move the border posts either side of a 20mile wide strip of land. Ta-dah!".1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Nicky Morgan being slowly dismantled by Emily Maitlis.
"What happened to you?"1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
So it would be a Back Back Stop? Or is it a Front Back Stop? Or if the goods are exports maybe a Back to Front Stop?0
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Bizarre car crash interview with Johnson on BBC this morning...0
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Don't tell me... a mixture of lots of mentions of 'surrender act', outright lies, and plenty of um's and ah's, whilst not answering any questions.Imposter wrote:Bizarre car crash interview with Johnson on BBC this morning...0 -
briantrumpet wrote:
Don't tell me... a mixture of lots of mentions of 'surrender act', outright lies, and plenty of um's and ah's, whilst not answering any questions.Imposter wrote:Bizarre car crash interview with Johnson on BBC this morning...
Didn't matter what the question was, he just talked about buses and occasionally hospitals...0 -
briantrumpet wrote:
Don't tell me... a mixture of lots of mentions of 'surrender act', outright lies, and plenty of um's and ah's, whilst not answering any questions.Imposter wrote:Bizarre car crash interview with Johnson on BBC this morning...
the man has no substance and the more people see of him the more the veneer wears off. Labour should wait as long as he can for the election whilst the goon implodes0 -
Imposter wrote:briantrumpet wrote:
Don't tell me... a mixture of lots of mentions of 'surrender act', outright lies, and plenty of um's and ah's, whilst not answering any questions.Imposter wrote:Bizarre car crash interview with Johnson on BBC this morning...
Didn't matter what the question was, he just talked about buses and occasionally hospitals...
would that be the 40 brand new hospitals or the 6 refurbished ones?0 -
rjsterry wrote:I posted it more for the reference to a 'secret deal' than Peston's credentials. It occurs that it may be the cunning plan that various cabinet ministers are hinting at. As I said, I'm sceptical of Johnson's ability to pull it off, more so if his idea is just "let's just move the border posts either side of a 20mile wide strip of land. Ta-dah!".
As Boris's whole life has a been a triumph of presentation over substance is it not likely that his cunning plan is to re-present May's WA in a more upbeat manner?0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:Imposter wrote:briantrumpet wrote:
Don't tell me... a mixture of lots of mentions of 'surrender act', outright lies, and plenty of um's and ah's, whilst not answering any questions.Imposter wrote:Bizarre car crash interview with Johnson on BBC this morning...
Didn't matter what the question was, he just talked about buses and occasionally hospitals...
would that be the 40 brand new hospitals or the 6 refurbished ones?
HE'S DOING A LABOUR0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:rjsterry wrote:I posted it more for the reference to a 'secret deal' than Peston's credentials. It occurs that it may be the cunning plan that various cabinet ministers are hinting at. As I said, I'm sceptical of Johnson's ability to pull it off, more so if his idea is just "let's just move the border posts either side of a 20mile wide strip of land. Ta-dah!".
As Boris's whole life has a been a triumph of presentation over substance is it not likely that his cunning plan is to re-present May's WA in a more upbeat manner?
I could buy this if Johson hadn't been busy burning that bridge since day 1. His rhetoric is making it impalatable for all involved to accept a compromise.0 -
DrHaggis wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:rjsterry wrote:I posted it more for the reference to a 'secret deal' than Peston's credentials. It occurs that it may be the cunning plan that various cabinet ministers are hinting at. As I said, I'm sceptical of Johnson's ability to pull it off, more so if his idea is just "let's just move the border posts either side of a 20mile wide strip of land. Ta-dah!".
As Boris's whole life has a been a triumph of presentation over substance is it not likely that his cunning plan is to re-present May's WA in a more upbeat manner?
I could buy this if Johson hadn't been busy burning that bridge since day 1. His rhetoric is making it impalatable for all involved to accept a compromise.
Trump school of negotiation - make outrageous claims/demands, pull back from the brink and claim victory.0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:DrHaggis wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:rjsterry wrote:I posted it more for the reference to a 'secret deal' than Peston's credentials. It occurs that it may be the cunning plan that various cabinet ministers are hinting at. As I said, I'm sceptical of Johnson's ability to pull it off, more so if his idea is just "let's just move the border posts either side of a 20mile wide strip of land. Ta-dah!".
As Boris's whole life has a been a triumph of presentation over substance is it not likely that his cunning plan is to re-present May's WA in a more upbeat manner?
I could buy this if Johson hadn't been busy burning that bridge since day 1. His rhetoric is making it impalatable for all involved to accept a compromise.
Trump school of negotiation - make outrageous claims/demands, pull back from the brink and claim victory.
The leaked idea of set back customs posts has been dismissed as out-of-date by Johnson this morning, but why it was ever put on paper when it's obvious that it wouldn't fly is anyone's guess. Peter Foster at the Telegraph reckons it *will* actually form part of formal proposals to EU.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
They've probably just changed the title of the proposal.rjsterry wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:DrHaggis wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:rjsterry wrote:I posted it more for the reference to a 'secret deal' than Peston's credentials. It occurs that it may be the cunning plan that various cabinet ministers are hinting at. As I said, I'm sceptical of Johnson's ability to pull it off, more so if his idea is just "let's just move the border posts either side of a 20mile wide strip of land. Ta-dah!".
As Boris's whole life has a been a triumph of presentation over substance is it not likely that his cunning plan is to re-present May's WA in a more upbeat manner?
I could buy this if Johson hadn't been busy burning that bridge since day 1. His rhetoric is making it impalatable for all involved to accept a compromise.
Trump school of negotiation - make outrageous claims/demands, pull back from the brink and claim victory.
The leaked idea of set back customs posts has been dismissed as out-of-date by Johnson this morning, but why it was ever put on paper when it's obvious that it wouldn't fly is anyone's guess. Peter Foster at the Telegraph reckons it *will* actually form part of formal proposals to EU.0 -
rjsterry wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:DrHaggis wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:rjsterry wrote:I posted it more for the reference to a 'secret deal' than Peston's credentials. It occurs that it may be the cunning plan that various cabinet ministers are hinting at. As I said, I'm sceptical of Johnson's ability to pull it off, more so if his idea is just "let's just move the border posts either side of a 20mile wide strip of land. Ta-dah!".
As Boris's whole life has a been a triumph of presentation over substance is it not likely that his cunning plan is to re-present May's WA in a more upbeat manner?
I could buy this if Johson hadn't been busy burning that bridge since day 1. His rhetoric is making it impalatable for all involved to accept a compromise.
Trump school of negotiation - make outrageous claims/demands, pull back from the brink and claim victory.
The leaked idea of set back customs posts has been dismissed as out-of-date by Johnson this morning, but why it was ever put on paper when it's obvious that it wouldn't fly is anyone's guess. Peter Foster at the Telegraph reckons it *will* actually form part of formal proposals to EU.
With whom doesn't it fly?0 -
TheBigBean wrote:With whom doesn't it fly?
Probably doesn't fly with anyone who's ever taken the time to understand the Irish border issues...0 -
TheBigBean wrote:rjsterry wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:DrHaggis wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:rjsterry wrote:I posted it more for the reference to a 'secret deal' than Peston's credentials. It occurs that it may be the cunning plan that various cabinet ministers are hinting at. As I said, I'm sceptical of Johnson's ability to pull it off, more so if his idea is just "let's just move the border posts either side of a 20mile wide strip of land. Ta-dah!".
As Boris's whole life has a been a triumph of presentation over substance is it not likely that his cunning plan is to re-present May's WA in a more upbeat manner?
I could buy this if Johson hadn't been busy burning that bridge since day 1. His rhetoric is making it impalatable for all involved to accept a compromise.
Trump school of negotiation - make outrageous claims/demands, pull back from the brink and claim victory.
The leaked idea of set back customs posts has been dismissed as out-of-date by Johnson this morning, but why it was ever put on paper when it's obvious that it wouldn't fly is anyone's guess. Peter Foster at the Telegraph reckons it *will* actually form part of formal proposals to EU.
With whom doesn't it fly?
Johnson, Dublin, EU, various informed commentators. Literally nobody supporting it.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
HaydenM wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:Imposter wrote:briantrumpet wrote:
Don't tell me... a mixture of lots of mentions of 'surrender act', outright lies, and plenty of um's and ah's, whilst not answering any questions.Imposter wrote:Bizarre car crash interview with Johnson on BBC this morning...
Didn't matter what the question was, he just talked about buses and occasionally hospitals...
would that be the 40 brand new hospitals or the 6 refurbished ones?
HE'S DOING A LABOUR
It's not a miscalculation when put on the spot about sums - it's a open and calculated lie.0 -
TheBigBean wrote:With whom doesn't it fly?
Most interestingly, Julian Smith MP Secretary of State for NI“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:It occurs to me that the UK negotiating position on the backstop is so far away from what could be agreed that they aren't actually trying to replace the backstop.
They are using the 'backstop talks' as a proxy for 'no deal border arrangement talks' which the EU have said they won't get into.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
rjsterry wrote:TheBigBean wrote:rjsterry wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:DrHaggis wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:rjsterry wrote:I posted it more for the reference to a 'secret deal' than Peston's credentials. It occurs that it may be the cunning plan that various cabinet ministers are hinting at. As I said, I'm sceptical of Johnson's ability to pull it off, more so if his idea is just "let's just move the border posts either side of a 20mile wide strip of land. Ta-dah!".
As Boris's whole life has a been a triumph of presentation over substance is it not likely that his cunning plan is to re-present May's WA in a more upbeat manner?
I could buy this if Johson hadn't been busy burning that bridge since day 1. His rhetoric is making it impalatable for all involved to accept a compromise.
Trump school of negotiation - make outrageous claims/demands, pull back from the brink and claim victory.
The leaked idea of set back customs posts has been dismissed as out-of-date by Johnson this morning, but why it was ever put on paper when it's obvious that it wouldn't fly is anyone's guess. Peter Foster at the Telegraph reckons it *will* actually form part of formal proposals to EU.
With whom doesn't it fly?
Johnson, Dublin, EU, various informed commentators. Literally nobody supporting it.
Well, have a good laugh at me, but it looks like the start of a compromise to me.0
