BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Jim Pickard
    @PickardJE
    ·
    1m
    Lib Dems to use SO24 tomorrow to try to force release of 3 sets of government No Deal Brexit papers: Snow Bunting (police preparations) Kingfisher (business support) and Black Swan (worst case scenario)
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    If BoJo prorogues parliament again for the Queen's speech, is there going to be more constitutional outrage? Presumably it will be happening quite soon.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    TheBigBean wrote:
    If BoJo prorogues parliament again for the Queen's speech, is there going to be more constitutional outrage? Presumably it will be happening quite soon.

    Boris Johnson has never prorogued parliament.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,551
    TheBigBean wrote:
    If BoJo prorogues parliament again for the Queen's speech, is there going to be more constitutional outrage? Presumably it will be happening quite soon.

    If it's only for a few days as would be usual then I don't see a problem. Either way, if the opposition parties and ex-Tories want to do something more than grumble about Johnson they'd better get on with it.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    TheBigBean wrote:
    If BoJo prorogues parliament again for the Queen's speech, is there going to be more constitutional outrage? Presumably it will be happening quite soon.

    I doubt if the queen would sign anything that Johnson presented her with right now...
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    TheBigBean wrote:
    If BoJo prorogues parliament again for the Queen's speech, is there going to be more constitutional outrage? Presumably it will be happening quite soon.

    Depends when and for how long. It'd still be to run the clock down, especially since he still wants a general election, but no constitutional issue, I'd have thought. No real pretence it's to announce what they are going to do over the next year, because they don't know what the situation's going to be with ... you know...
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    The funny thing is, the Tories don't want a Queen's Speech.
    They know as soon as they bring anything to the House, Grieve et al will start hanging amendments on it.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,551
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The funny thing is, the Tories don't want a Queen's Speech.
    They know as soon as they bring anything to the House, Grieve et al will start hanging amendments on it.
    One assumes the Queen's Speech is another option to precipitate a GE.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    All he's ever wanted is to be PM* - think this is how he imagined it?

    *(and as much sex as he can get)
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    If BoJo prorogues parliament again for the Queen's speech, is there going to be more constitutional outrage? Presumably it will be happening quite soon.

    Depends when and for how long. It'd still be to run the clock down, especially since he still wants a general election, but no constitutional issue, I'd have thought. No real pretence it's to announce what they are going to do over the next year, because they don't know what the situation's going to be with ... you know...

    Queen's speech on 14th, so presumably the week before will be prorogued. Therefore, Thurs this week is likely to be last sitting day.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The funny thing is, the Tories don't want a Queen's Speech.
    They know as soon as they bring anything to the House, Grieve et al will start hanging amendments on it.

    The one that isn't traditionally amended, but was in 2017. The one that used to be a confidence vote, but isn't any more. All change in the house of commons.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    With the EU meeting on the 17th/18th, you'd have thought he might have found some better way to use his and his minions' time. Wouldn't be surprised if she came out and said "It says here you're all a bunch of dicks. He says to give him an election."
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    With the EU meeting on the 17th/18th, you'd have thought he might have found some better way to use his and his minions' time. Wouldn't be surprised if she came out and said "It says here you're all a bunch of dicks. He says to give him an election."

    What would you rather they do?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    TheBigBean wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    With the EU meeting on the 17th/18th, you'd have thought he might have found some better way to use his and his minions' time. Wouldn't be surprised if she came out and said "It says here you're all a bunch of dicks. He says to give him an election."

    What would you rather they do?

    Try and find a way through the end of October that doesn't involve trying to tear the country apart.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    With the EU meeting on the 17th/18th, you'd have thought he might have found some better way to use his and his minions' time. Wouldn't be surprised if she came out and said "It says here you're all a bunch of dicks. He says to give him an election."

    What would you rather they do?

    Try and find a way through the end of October that doesn't involve trying to tear the country apart.
    Will BJ be able to resist to pull the 'civil war' reference that Trump's using now, I wonder... on the plus side, at least the UK hasn't got as many guns in circulation to liven up the action...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    I saw this on Twitter and thought it might be worth reminding people of. It's a quote from a Gove campaign speech in April 2016.

    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1168479741491462144

    EDdGIPIXYAAXzqn?format=jpg&name=900x900
    EDdGIPJXUAETZmt?format=jpg&name=900x900
    EDdGIPJWwAAHWbb?format=jpg&name=900x900
    EDdGIPKXkAAr-SM?format=jpg&name=900x900

    This is what was actually campaigned on (and might be a sensible compromise given that about half the population isn't exactly keen on the idea). It is kind of strange how much more polarised it has got since then.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Just listening to a old podcast and it reminds of an old loose end.
    The government called off the blocking in the Lords on the Benn Bill and let it go through.


    I wonder will this plot line ever pay off or have the script writers just let it go,
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The funny thing is, the Tories don't want a Queen's Speech.
    They know as soon as they bring anything to the House, Grieve et al will start hanging amendments on it.

    The one that isn't traditionally amended, but was in 2017. The one that used to be a confidence vote, but isn't any more. All change in the house of commons.

    Taking back control innit
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    TailWindHome wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The funny thing is, the Tories don't want a Queen's Speech.
    They know as soon as they bring anything to the House, Grieve et al will start hanging amendments on it.

    The one that isn't traditionally amended, but was in 2017. The one that used to be a confidence vote, but isn't any more. All change in the house of commons.

    Taking back control innit

    It's almost like if you have thrown away your majority you don't still get to do everything the way you want.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Just listening to a old podcast and it reminds of an old loose end.
    The government called off the blocking in the Lords on the Benn Bill and let it go through.


    I wonder will this plot line ever pay off or have the script writers just let it go,

    I posted at the time to say that it implies they knew of a loop hole or alternatively decided that the gain in political capital from the "surrender" act was greater than the loss in political capital from delaying Brexit.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The funny thing is, the Tories don't want a Queen's Speech.
    They know as soon as they bring anything to the House, Grieve et al will start hanging amendments on it.

    The one that isn't traditionally amended, but was in 2017. The one that used to be a confidence vote, but isn't any more. All change in the house of commons.

    Taking back control innit

    It's almost like if you have thrown away your majority you don't still get to do everything the way you want.

    Or that the fixed term parliament act isn't working very well, and the gloves are off from all sides on parliamentary procedure.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    TheBigBean wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The funny thing is, the Tories don't want a Queen's Speech.
    They know as soon as they bring anything to the House, Grieve et al will start hanging amendments on it.

    The one that isn't traditionally amended, but was in 2017. The one that used to be a confidence vote, but isn't any more. All change in the house of commons.

    Taking back control innit

    It's almost like if you have thrown away your majority you don't still get to do everything the way you want.

    Or that the fixed term parliament act isn't working very well, and the gloves are off from all sides on parliamentary procedure.

    With a majority, wouldn't matter, though. Cameron, May and Johnson between them have created a perfect storm.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,349
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The funny thing is, the Tories don't want a Queen's Speech.
    They know as soon as they bring anything to the House, Grieve et al will start hanging amendments on it.

    The one that isn't traditionally amended, but was in 2017. The one that used to be a confidence vote, but isn't any more. All change in the house of commons.

    Taking back control innit

    It's almost like if you have thrown away your majority you don't still get to do everything the way you want.

    Or that the fixed term parliament act isn't working very well, and the gloves are off from all sides on parliamentary procedure.

    With a majority, wouldn't matter, though. Cameron, May and Johnson between them have created a perfect storm.
    Exactly so. And what galls is that Johnson is trying to ram through NDB despite having no majority, in any sense, for that.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    That Gove plan from 2016 would have passed through parliament. Not sure if it would now, because Gove probably wouldn't vote for his own plan.
  • Longshot
    Longshot Posts: 940
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    With the EU meeting on the 17th/18th, you'd have thought he might have found some better way to use his and his minions' time.

    They maybe don't need to. Word is the deal has already been done and both the EU and UK Gov are just using the remaining time to try and make political gains.

    I've heard this now from three different people, all unconnected with each other, whose information is usually accurate and fairly reliable.

    That of course is no guarantee that it's not pure BS.
    You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Longshot wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    With the EU meeting on the 17th/18th, you'd have thought he might have found some better way to use his and his minions' time.

    They maybe don't need to. Word is the deal has already been done and both the EU and UK Gov are just using the remaining time to try and make political gains.

    I've heard this now from three different people, all unconnected with each other, whose information is usually accurate and fairly reliable.

    That of course is no guarantee that it's not pure BS.

    Alternatively then, they could use the time trying to not piss off the people who have to vote for it.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    That Gove plan from 2016 would have passed through parliament. Not sure if it would now, because Gove probably wouldn't vote for his own plan.
    And would have had the benefit of not completely alienating 50% or possibly more of the population.

    It's what people who vote leave voted for! Not no deal.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,551
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Longshot wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    With the EU meeting on the 17th/18th, you'd have thought he might have found some better way to use his and his minions' time.

    They maybe don't need to. Word is the deal has already been done and both the EU and UK Gov are just using the remaining time to try and make political gains.

    I've heard this now from three different people, all unconnected with each other, whose information is usually accurate and fairly reliable.

    That of course is no guarantee that it's not pure BS.

    Alternatively then, they could use the time trying to not wee-wee off the people who have to vote for it.
    This seems relevant.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-30/joh ... rt-peston/

    Still not convinced he can pull it off.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,915
    rjsterry wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Longshot wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    With the EU meeting on the 17th/18th, you'd have thought he might have found some better way to use his and his minions' time.

    They maybe don't need to. Word is the deal has already been done and both the EU and UK Gov are just using the remaining time to try and make political gains.

    I've heard this now from three different people, all unconnected with each other, whose information is usually accurate and fairly reliable.

    That of course is no guarantee that it's not pure BS.

    Alternatively then, they could use the time trying to not wee-wee off the people who have to vote for it.
    This seems relevant.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-30/joh ... rt-peston/

    Still not convinced he can pull it off.

    No insight as to whether a deal is likely, but I suspect if a deal has been done, it would be with someone other than Barnier and Juncker e.g. Varadkar, Merkel and Macron. If those three agree, I can't imagine any other country being bothered.
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    hope the tosser has done it. Next he can eviscerate the communists

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