BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

robert88

Words!!

You little bastards.. Where are you hiding?

bompington

Does this remind you of any other leaders in the English-speaking world?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... partridge/
(just remember that the Torygraph is about the most pro-Boris paper there is)

Even the Torygraph wrote:

We’ve all seen Mr Johnson bumbling and burbling for comic effect. It’s what he does. He’s been doing it his entire political life. But this wasn’t like that. Here, he looked genuinely dazed. Absent. Distracted. Lost. He spoke slowly, vaguely, and with long, inexplicable pauses – as if, while he murmured away, his mind kept straying on to some other, rather more troubling topic.

And then, after only a couple of minutes, something even odder happened. A propos of absolutely nothing at all, he started rambling about police cautions.

“Do you know the caution?” he said dreamily, to his audience of newly recruited officers. “You know what you have to say when you, when you... when you collar someone? ‘You do not have to say anything.’ Is that right? No. ‘Anything you s...’ No. ‘But if you fail to mention something… which you later… rely on…’”


His audience was silent. No one seemed to know quite where to look. It all felt very awkward. You could practically hear the clenching of disconcerted buttocks.

“Hang on,” murmured the Prime Minister, almost to himself. “Let’s get this right. Do you remember it? You all know it? ‘Which you later rely on in court... may be… taken into account…’” He gave up. “Anyway, you get the gist…”

It wasn’t meant to be a joke. There was no punchline. Or indeed any point.

briantrumpet

bompington wrote:

Does this remind you of any other leaders in the English-speaking world?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... partridge/
(just remember that the Torygraph is about the most pro-Boris paper there is)

Even the Torygraph wrote:

We’ve all seen Mr Johnson bumbling and burbling for comic effect. It’s what he does. He’s been doing it his entire political life. But this wasn’t like that. Here, he looked genuinely dazed. Absent. Distracted. Lost. He spoke slowly, vaguely, and with long, inexplicable pauses – as if, while he murmured away, his mind kept straying on to some other, rather more troubling topic.

And then, after only a couple of minutes, something even odder happened. A propos of absolutely nothing at all, he started rambling about police cautions.

“Do you know the caution?” he said dreamily, to his audience of newly recruited officers. “You know what you have to say when you, when you... when you collar someone? ‘You do not have to say anything.’ Is that right? No. ‘Anything you s...’ No. ‘But if you fail to mention something… which you later… rely on…’”


His audience was silent. No one seemed to know quite where to look. It all felt very awkward. You could practically hear the clenching of disconcerted buttocks.

“Hang on,” murmured the Prime Minister, almost to himself. “Let’s get this right. Do you remember it? You all know it? ‘Which you later rely on in court... may be… taken into account…’” He gave up. “Anyway, you get the gist…”

It wasn’t meant to be a joke. There was no punchline. Or indeed any point.

Michael Deacon, the Telegraph sketch writer of this piece, to his credit, has remained sceptical, and, surprisingly, kept his job, in a paper which has lurched to the right in step with the Tories. These days it's just like the Express, but with longer words, on the whole. A pity - it used to be worth reading.

darkhairedlord

crispybug2 wrote:

Having just watched Question Time I am genuinely depressed about the whole f*cking shambles

Every single side of the debate were an utter bunch of cūnts!!

Panel selected by the big-brother production team?

robert88

So, how long has he got? Has he unpacked the china and glassware? Is Tory steve0 still an admirer?

rick_chasey

bompington wrote:

Does this remind you of any other leaders in the English-speaking world?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... partridge/
(just remember that the Torygraph is about the most pro-Boris paper there is)
]

It was actually and old joke of his from his dinner speech circuit.

TheBigBean

Robert88 wrote:

So, how long has he got? Has he unpacked the china and glassware? Is Tory steve0 still an admirer?

One tactical option available to him is resigning. Careful what you wish for.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

bompington wrote:

Does this remind you of any other leaders in the English-speaking world?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... partridge/
(just remember that the Torygraph is about the most pro-Boris paper there is)
]

It was actually and old joke of his from his dinner speech circuit.

Half a joke, presumably. It's all very well having a stock of off the cuff remarks to make you look spontaneous, but if you forget your lines half way through it falls a bit flat. As someone else pointed out, we now seem to have Alan Partridge for PM.

rick_chasey

It shouldn't be a surprise.

Anyone who's read up a bit on him knows that when it comes to speeches, he doesn't prepare, and trots out the same old jokes.

It's his default.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

It shouldn't be a surprise.

Anyone who's read up a bit on him knows that when it comes to speeches, he doesn't prepare, and trots out the same old jokes.

It's his default.

Bizarrely I watched that speech and saw nothing out of the ordinary - in which case a sign that the DT is turning on him

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

It shouldn't be a surprise.

Anyone who's read up a bit on him knows that when it comes to speeches, he doesn't prepare, and trots out the same old jokes.

It's his default.

Wants to be like Churchill but can't be bothered with the effort required. Given his reputation for laziness you wonder how Cummings can stand working for him.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It shouldn't be a surprise.

Anyone who's read up a bit on him knows that when it comes to speeches, he doesn't prepare, and trots out the same old jokes.

It's his default.

Wants to be like Churchill but can't be bothered with the effort required. Given his reputation for laziness you wonder how Cummings can stand working for him.

Working for a lazy boss is great as you get a free hand to do what you want.

rjsterry

Surrey Commuter wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It shouldn't be a surprise.

Anyone who's read up a bit on him knows that when it comes to speeches, he doesn't prepare, and trots out the same old jokes.

It's his default.

Wants to be like Churchill but can't be bothered with the effort required. Given his reputation for laziness you wonder how Cummings can stand working for him.

Working for a lazy boss is great as you get a free hand to do what you want.

Good point. Must be frustrating when your boss keeps ruining your plans, though.

bompington

rjsterry wrote:

Given his reputation for laziness you wonder how Cummings can stand working for him.

What on earth makes you think Cummings is working for him?

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

bompington wrote:

Does this remind you of any other leaders in the English-speaking world?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... partridge/
(just remember that the Torygraph is about the most pro-Boris paper there is)
]

It was actually and old joke of his from his dinner speech circuit.

Half a joke, presumably. It's all very well having a stock of off the cuff remarks to make you look spontaneous, but if you forget your lines half way through it falls a bit flat. As someone else pointed out, we now seem to have Alan Partridge for PM.

I think that was all part of the routine iirc

A close family member once had him as a speaker for their flagship dinner.
Exactly the same experience as that Jeremy Vine article.

mfin

crispybug2 wrote:

Having just watched Question Time I am genuinely depressed about the whole f*cking shambles

Every single side of the debate were an utter bunch of cūnts!!

It is worth remembering with politics that you don't have to like any politician, in fact, liking someone or disliking someone is what a lot of people let sway and steer them. It's also not worth putting too much weight on a particular performance.

What people need to do is be calm and assess parties on what they are trying to do. Of course, watching a programme like that (I did) some watchers get frustrated when answers don't come straight. Take the push for an answer as to what date Labour or the SNP would support a general election. No date was needed to be said. The answer that they want to ensure a no deal Brexit doesn't happen is good enough, they want to ensure that first and foremost. No one on that panel would have said a date, and no one will say a date when they are asked time and time again today. It's not a problem that they won't do this.

It is difficult to take politicians seriously when they butt heads, avoid questions, interrupt others and then offer no clarity on their position, but it is fully expected on a programme like that with the timing of when it went out.

I find it way more concerning how binary much of the public are, and that there seems no substance under the typical statements they make. One guy in the audience said yesterday that he didn't believe people knew what they were voting for in the referendum, he might have worded it not too well, but he was right. He was right that the picture of how leave would happen was not painted as crashing out, and he would also have been right if he'd agreed that he was questioning the intelligence of 17 million people (I don't mean that as singling out pro brexit people). It's a rare thing to find people who know much about Brexit at all. On here there is plenty of people that are well read on it, which is refreshing compared to the shouting dimwits of the public that seem to make it into every BBC tv news piece.

It is good to see decisions that matter starting to happen. Personally, I also find the "people are fed up and just want it overwith" a daft kind of statement we're hearing a lot of. People should have a massive attention span and tolerance to all this, it is such high impact on our futures. If people don't like it, put Eastenders or Love Island back on and let other people worry about it.

tailwindhome

Coopster the 1st wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Richard Corbett
@RCorbettMEP
· Sep 3
The Finnish Presidency of the EU Council of ministers @EUCouncil confirmed in answer to my question in @EPInstitutional that there has been NO NEW PROPOSAL received from the UK government on the Irish #backstop or any other aspect of #Brexit

Did your echo chamber miss this Brexit news or did you not want to share it as it undermines your argument?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49587610

Ireland will 'try' to impose checks away from border in no-deal

Looks like Ireland will not put in place check on the border so neither side will put any border infrastructure in place. Another piece of Project Fear bullsh1t exposed.

You may want to update yourself on Varadkar's speech to the British/Irish Chamber of Commerce last night.
There's plenty of fresh material in there for you to not really understand

tailwindhome

Sammy Wilson figures out the huge flaw in the UK gov no deal plans for NI business

As per DUP playbook - wants compensation

This is what I believe the kids call a 'self own'

https://twitter.com/eastantrimmp/status ... 2946672640

kingstongraham

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Remainers need to ask why their side are so scared of putting this decision to the public in a GE and let them decide

Most remainers would be happy with another referendum where you actually ask the question that you want an answer to.

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/katie_martin_fx/sta ... 5965038598

*ice cold* from UBS Wealth: "The main threat to sterling's recovery is if Johnson's Conservative party were to win with a majority in an early election."

coopster_the_1st

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Remainers need to ask why their side are so scared of putting this decision to the public in a GE and let them decide

Most remainers would be happy with another referendum where you actually ask the question that you want an answer to.

Yet the remoaners are scared of holding an election before 31st October because they know their view does not command the support of the electorate.

A 2nd referendum is acceptable when it is democratically decided if it is the manifesto pledge of the winning party.

Funny how you want your "more democracy" with a 2nd referendum but you don't want to allow democracy to decide on this option :roll:

robert88

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It shouldn't be a surprise.

Anyone who's read up a bit on him knows that when it comes to speeches, he doesn't prepare, and trots out the same old jokes.

It's his default.

Wants to be like Churchill but can't be bothered with the effort required. Given his reputation for laziness you wonder how Cummings can stand working for him.

He knows more than most about Churchill and is not trying to be like him for one thing, he knows he couldn't do it. Churchill might have looked like a rebel but when given responsibility was a very hard worker and could toe the line and be loyal to leaders he disagreed with. He might wish to be taken for a latter-day WSC by foolish voters but his dearest wish (or that of his handlers) is to trash the establishment. Cummings has to be one of his handlers.

rick_chasey

Robert88 wrote:

Churchill ..... was a very hard worker

...really?

In between the breakfasts, the 3 course lunches & dinners, and the endless, endless hard booze?

kingstongraham

bompington wrote:

Does this remind you of any other leaders in the English-speaking world?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... partridge/
(just remember that the Torygraph is about the most pro-Boris paper there is)

Even the Torygraph wrote:

We’ve all seen Mr Johnson bumbling and burbling for comic effect. It’s what he does. He’s been doing it his entire political life. But this wasn’t like that. Here, he looked genuinely dazed. Absent. Distracted. Lost. He spoke slowly, vaguely, and with long, inexplicable pauses – as if, while he murmured away, his mind kept straying on to some other, rather more troubling topic.

And then, after only a couple of minutes, something even odder happened. A propos of absolutely nothing at all, he started rambling about police cautions.

“Do you know the caution?” he said dreamily, to his audience of newly recruited officers. “You know what you have to say when you, when you... when you collar someone? ‘You do not have to say anything.’ Is that right? No. ‘Anything you s...’ No. ‘But if you fail to mention something… which you later… rely on…’”


His audience was silent. No one seemed to know quite where to look. It all felt very awkward. You could practically hear the clenching of disconcerted buttocks.

“Hang on,” murmured the Prime Minister, almost to himself. “Let’s get this right. Do you remember it? You all know it? ‘Which you later rely on in court... may be… taken into account…’” He gave up. “Anyway, you get the gist…”

It wasn’t meant to be a joke. There was no punchline. Or indeed any point.

Is there anything about police cautions he wants to show up less on google searches? I can't think of anything.

kingstongraham

Coopster the 1st wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Remainers need to ask why their side are so scared of putting this decision to the public in a GE and let them decide

Most remainers would be happy with another referendum where you actually ask the question that you want an answer to.

Yet the remoaners are scared of holding an election before 31st October because they know their view does not command the support of the electorate.

A 2nd referendum is acceptable when it is democratically decided if it is the manifesto pledge of the winning party.

Funny how you want your "more democracy" with a 2nd referendum but you don't want to allow democracy to decide on this option :roll:

robert88

Rick Chasey wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Churchill ..... was a very hard worker

...really?

In between the breakfasts, the 3 course lunches & dinners, and the endless, endless hard booze?

Yes, believe it or not, he was. It's worth reading Sir Alanbrooke's unexpurgated war diaries to get an idea. It was a tempestuous but effective working relationship nevertheless it was quite right that Churchill was dumped after the war by an electorate who knew him better than we do.

Pross

crispybug2 wrote:

Having just watched Question Time I am genuinely depressed about the whole f*cking shambles

Every single side of the debate were an utter bunch of cūnts!!

I don't generally watch it as none of the politicians on the panel will give an answer and the audience are generally only interested in giving their own opinion rather than actually being interested in anyone else's point of view. I did catch a bit last night where the SNP MP was asked 5 or 6 times by Fiona Bruce to answer the question and kept promising he would but the context needed discussing first which he did at length. In the end I don't think he answered the question but by that stage I'd forgotten what it was.

tailwindhome

Adrian Edmondson
@AdrianEdmondson
·
1h
"It's not your ball, it's everybody's ball."

rick_chasey

Robert88 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Churchill ..... was a very hard worker

...really?

In between the breakfasts, the 3 course lunches & dinners, and the endless, endless hard booze?

Yes, believe it or not, he was. It's worth reading Sir Alanbrooke's unexpurgated war diaries to get an idea. It was a tempestuous but effective working relationship nevertheless it was quite right that Churchill was dumped after the war by an electorate who knew him better than we do.

Yeah ok.

Let's just say the bar for working hard for posh folk with enough money that they can do public service things back in the 30s and 40s was pretty low.

Anyway, working hard as leader is overrated. There's a lot (a lot a lot) of myth and apocryphal chat around how wonderful the guy was which goes way beyond what was probably the case.

I've said it before, he gets mentioned now more than he did when he was PM in the '50s.

That he was leader during the war which, we can all agree, has become a monstrous black-hole in British collective memory, sucking out every other bit of British collective memory as it gets bigger and bigger, probably correlates with the hagiographic treatment he receives.

If I had the time or energy I would really be tempted to write an essay or even a book on how Churchill and WW2 became such behemoths in British collective memory, putting everything else in the shade. It's as saddening and worrying as it is fascinating.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

Churchill ..... was a very hard worker

...really?

In between the breakfasts, the 3 course lunches & dinners, and the endless, endless hard booze?

Yes, believe it or not, he was. It's worth reading Sir Alanbrooke's unexpurgated war diaries to get an idea. It was a tempestuous but effective working relationship nevertheless it was quite right that Churchill was dumped after the war by an electorate who knew him better than we do.

Yeah ok.

Let's just say the bar for working hard for posh folk with enough money that they can do public service things back in the 30s and 40s was pretty low.

Anyway, working hard as leader is overrated. There's a lot (a lot a lot) of myth and apocryphal chat around how wonderful the guy was which goes way beyond what was probably the case.

I've said it before, he gets mentioned now more than he did when he was PM in the '50s.

That he was leader during the war which, we can all agree, has become a monstrous black-hole in British collective memory, sucking out every other bit of British collective memory as it gets bigger and bigger, probably correlates with the hagiographic treatment he receives.

If I had the time or energy I would really be tempted to write an essay or even a book on how Churchill and WW2 became such behemoths in British collective memory, putting everything else in the shade. It's as saddening and worrying as it is fascinating.

Having been to his house, even through the National Trust presentation, the contrast between the inspiring war leader and a pretty unpleasant alcoholic is striking.