BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

rick_chasey

Jez mon

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I could quite believe that Cummings is using the loons to try and scare the EU into a better deal.

Is Cummings not just invited along for the inevitable election?

So far when harder brexiters have come in to contact with the EU, the EU has tended to make them look at best, foolish.

I don't think a cabinet of loons scares them particularly.

cycleclinic

KingstonGraham wrote:

Is this a different Dominic Raab to the one that was negotiating with the EU and came back with the backstop? Despite saying at the time that he favoured a "time-limit or a mechanism that enables the UK to leave, in case the EU doesn’t live up to its promise to get the future relationship in place swiftly."

Then voted for the withdrawal agreement in the third vote.

Really no surely not. raab is such an fine upstanding MP. You cant be saying he say one thing and does another and hope no one notices. Oh wait hes a tory, of course he can.

Even the telegraph is now writing about a federal UK. Maybe the tories are waking up to the source of the brexit problem. One has to hope in glimmers of light as its all we have left.

surrey_commuter

Jez mon wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I could quite believe that Cummings is using the loons to try and scare the EU into a better deal.

Is Cummings not just invited along for the inevitable election?

So far when harder brexiters have come in to contact with the EU, the EU has tended to make them look at best, foolish.

I don't think a cabinet of loons scares them particularly.

Cummings is the brains behind the operation. He is a long way from being a hard Brexiteer, he hates the ERG. His blog is fascinating.

Stevo_666

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Quality debate as usual lololol

It's good as ever to see people putting forward balanced views.

There won't be a lot of UK - EU debate after Boris refused to talk to EU leaders unless they are prepared to reopen the negotiations.

In which case we're heading for a showdown in Parliament.

Maybe in September when Parliament is back?

In the meantime let's see if the EU can be persuaded to show some much needed flexibility and pragmatism.

Persuaded by what? Johnson and Raab talking b*llocks? Do you think they are believable? Even the ERG have their doubts.

That's one for the EU. Will be interesting to see if they blink or not.

They're still not going to drop the backstop.

Because both sides have apparently agreed we can't have an Irish hard border, and there's no alternatives currently available, the only alternative seems to be an open ended transition period until such time as a solution is available. Which would annoy the ERG lot just as much.

If they don't blink then a no deal exit is the most likely outcome in my view.

Parliament won't approve the Withdrawal Agreement - it has been rejected 3 times already. Nor does it look in any way likely that Parliament will revoke A50. Let's hope we don't get bounced into a no-deal Brexit because of EU intransigence.

What points do you think the EU is being intransigent with?

Any form of new negotiation on the WA.

kingrollo

CptKernow wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

Instead of making Labour attractive to a wide range of voters, he's done exactly the opposite. That he still thinks that that's a good way of winning an election shows what an absolute tool he is.

If Labour had virtually anyone else as leader it would be hard to imagine how they wouldn't win a GE in the near term. As it stands they have someone who is only electable by your average student union...

I think people say that whoever the labour leader is. It was certainly said about Milliband.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Any form of new negotiation on the WA.

They spent a vast amount of time agreeing that with the same UK government that is in power today.

The UK gov't agreed to it.

They couldn't get it through parliament.

So why do they need to re-open negotiations?

The way the EU works is it must be quite systematic in its approach in order to fit the member states fairly into its structure.

Re-negotiating on a whim is not an option, particularly when they start interfering with those rules.

The EU has these options that don't cross those internal rules.



The WA is already a compromise on that.

cycleclinic

I wonder why the Tories still think there is a way of getting a deal on there terms. Why do they think they are special?

rick_chasey

thecycleclinic wrote:

I wonder why the Tories still think there is a way of getting a deal on there terms. Why do they think they are special?

The PM and the Foreign Secretary were both in externally facing roles which were very much involved in the negotiations when the WA was agreed between the UK govt and the EU.

It's ridiculous for them to turn around and say they want to re-negotiate. They helped craft and agree it in the first place.

I can't see how this is anything but negotiating in bad faith.

rick_chasey

And the big US trade deal BoJo is counting on?

Any future US-UK trade deal would almost certainly be blocked by the US Congress if Brexit affects the Irish border and jeopardises peace in Northern Ireland, congressional leaders and diplomats have warned.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... cians-warn

The American dimension to the Good Friday agreement is indispensable,” said Richard Neal, who is co-chair of the 54-strong Friends of Ireland caucus in Congress, and also chairs the powerful House ways and means committee, with the power to hold up a trade deal indefinitely.

“We oversee all trade agreements as part of our tax jurisdiction,” Neal, a Democratic congressman from Massachusetts, said in a phone interview. He pointed out that such a complex trade deal could take four or five years, even without the Northern Ireland issue.

“I would have little enthusiasm for entertaining a bilateral trade agreement with the UK, if they were to jeopardise the agreement.”

Pete King, the Republican co-chair of the Friends of Ireland group, said the threat to abandon the backstop and endanger the open border was a “needless provocation”, adding that his party would have no compunction about defying Trump over the issue.

“I would think anyone who has a strong belief in Northern Ireland and the Good Friday agreement the open border would certainly be willing to go against the president,” King said.

In the event of a hard Brexit, in the absence of guarantees for the Northern Ireland agreement, the strength of sentiment among Irish Americans – a tenth of the population, many of them in swing states – could make it an issue in next year’s presidential and congressional elections.

robert88

The old boys network may not be a cross-border thing?

tailwindhome

It seems the EU aren't taking no deal off the table.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Any form of new negotiation on the WA.

They couldn't get it through parliament.

So why do they need to re-open negotiations?

You've just answered your own question Rick.

pblakeney

Westminster sounds like a petulant child.
"Why won't you give me what I want?"
"What do you want?"
"I don't know, but give it to me. Now!"

morstar

Anybody see any irony in the fact that Brexiteers are totally dependent on a default no deal (let's call that a backstop position for want of a better term) in order to have any chance of executing Brexit and yet conversely are totally anti any sort of backstop with the Eu.

coopster_the_1st

morstar wrote:

Anybody see any irony in the fact that Brexiteers are totally dependent on a default no deal (let's call that a backstop position for want of a better term) in order to have any chance of executing Brexit and yet conversely are totally anti any sort of backstop with the Eu.

There is no irony as they are completely different positions.

Both the Brexit options mean the UK regains control while the EU backstop position leaves the EU in control of the UK

kingstongraham

morstar wrote:

Anybody see any irony in the fact that Brexiteers are totally dependent on a default no deal (let's call that a backstop position for want of a better term) in order to have any chance of executing Brexit and yet conversely are totally anti any sort of backstop with the Eu.

No.

cougie

Is there ANYTHING going right with Brexit ?

All I can see is Johnson promising everyone things that mean he can't keep the promises he's made to everyone else ?

It's an impossible situation.

coopster_the_1st

When the pips are squeaking things are going well.

There has been a lot of squeaking over the last 7 days

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Any form of new negotiation on the WA.

They couldn't get it through parliament.

So why do they need to re-open negotiations?

You've just answered your own question Rick.

But what's the quid pro quo?

You can't just say "we don't accept this, do as we want instead". The backstop is a solution to the challenge Northern Ireland poses in light of the UK red lines that they themselves have drawn.

The UK position is simply a threat - do this or we will push the nuclear button. That is not a strong negotiating position to have, nor does it put the UK on the front foot for the future relationship negotiations.

We all know Sterling is at it's lowest ever because that nuclear option is becoming more likely, which suggests what the money's consensus is on how successful that option will be.

cougie

Pips ? Squeaking ?

I'm taking that to mean nothing is going right for Brexit so I'll call people names instead.

coopster_the_1st

cougie wrote:

Pips ? Squeaking ?

I'm taking that to mean nothing is going right for Brexit so I'll call people names instead.

It's going very well.

Brexit is going to happen.

Remainers had their chance to deliver BRINO by rejecting it 3 times...

Remoaners get called names because childish is the level they are on

cougie

What exactly is going well ?

Looks like it's all gone to sh1t from where I'm standing ?

coopster_the_1st

cougie wrote:

What exactly is going well ?

Looks like it's all gone to sh1t from where I'm standing ?

That is because it is going to happen.

I'm sure you and others will continue stamping their feet in a huff like a 3yo child.

cougie

Coopster just believing in things doesn't seem to work for Brexit.

You've missed the previous deadlines. What's different this time ?

You seem suspiciously light on details.

kingstongraham

Coopster the 1st wrote:

cougie wrote:

Pips ? Squeaking ?

I'm taking that to mean nothing is going right for Brexit so I'll call people names instead.

It's going very well.

Brexit is going to happen.

Remainers had their chance to deliver BRINO by rejecting it 3 times...

Remoaners get called names because childish is the level they are on

Brexit supporting MPs had plenty chance to deliver Brexit. Remainers not delivering any Brexit is kind of... rational?

rick_chasey

In case it's not crystal clear, it's worth remembering it was the British who originally requested the backstop, and it is the British - not the other nations - who have refused to ratify the May agreement. It surely then must be incumbent on the British to restart the negotiations with their own alternative to it.

coopster_the_1st

cougie wrote:

Coopster just believing in things doesn't seem to work for Brexit.

You've missed the previous deadlines. What's different this time ?

You seem suspiciously light on details.

It was remainers running the show (in govt & civil service) last time and a spineless remainer(now out of her job) who requested 2 extensions.

The electorate have shown what it will do to the 2 major parties if Brexit is not delivered on 31st October.

kingstongraham

Coopster the 1st wrote:

cougie wrote:

Coopster just believing in things doesn't seem to work for Brexit.

You've missed the previous deadlines. What's different this time ?

You seem suspiciously light on details.

It was remainers running the show (in govt & civil service) last time and a spineless remainer(now out of her job) who requested 2 extensions.

The electorate have shown what it will do to the 2 major parties if Brexit is not delivered on 31st October.

They also need to consider what the electorate will do if a chaotic Brexit is delivered.

tailwindhome

Coopster the 1st wrote:

cougie wrote:

Coopster just believing in things doesn't seem to work for Brexit.

You've missed the previous deadlines. What's different this time ?

You seem suspiciously light on details.

It was remainers running the show (in govt & civil service) last time and a spineless remainer(now out of her job) who requested 2 extensions.

The electorate have shown what it will do to the 2 major parties if Brexit is not delivered on 31st October.

Ironically Farage isn't happy.
Apparently the leaders and strategist behind the winning Vote Leave campaign don't believe in Brexit.