BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Free market proponents the Tories have outlined plans to buy up any lamb or beef at the point of slaughter at a pre-determined price in the event of no-deal, as the vast a majority of that meat would normally be exported, but would not be able to.

    When it is a group of people who campaigned to leave then they should just be left to accept the consequences of their actions. They have to experience bad things so that they can make better decisions in the future.

    They can't really be blamed as they didn't campaign to leave without a deal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836

    If I remember correctly it was well known that the fishymen were fvcking themselves as they were shutting themselves out of their markets. Hill farmers should have known they were shutting themselves out of the fresh market so would be competing in the highly competitive frozen market.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Free market proponents the Tories have outlined plans to buy up any lamb or beef at the point of slaughter at a pre-determined price in the event of no-deal, as the vast a majority of that meat would normally be exported, but would not be able to.

    When it is a group of people who campaigned to leave then they should just be left to accept the consequences of their actions. They have to experience bad things so that they can make better decisions in the future.

    They can't really be blamed as they didn't campaign to leave without a deal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836

    If I remember correctly it was well known that the fishymen were ******* themselves as they were shutting themselves out of their markets. Hill farmers should have known they were shutting themselves out of the fresh market so would be competing in the highly competitive frozen market.

    IIRC the farmers Union was on the side of remaining.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Jez mon wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Free market proponents the Tories have outlined plans to buy up any lamb or beef at the point of slaughter at a pre-determined price in the event of no-deal, as the vast a majority of that meat would normally be exported, but would not be able to.

    When it is a group of people who campaigned to leave then they should just be left to accept the consequences of their actions. They have to experience bad things so that they can make better decisions in the future.

    They can't really be blamed as they didn't campaign to leave without a deal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836

    If I remember correctly it was well known that the fishymen were ******* themselves as they were shutting themselves out of their markets. Hill farmers should have known they were shutting themselves out of the fresh market so would be competing in the highly competitive frozen market.

    IIRC the farmers Union was on the side of remaining.

    The actual farmers have been bleating for decades. NFU represents the interests of big corporate farmers.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pleased LDs won the seat but not a very encouraging result; Tories would likely have won had it not been for the Brexit Party, despite the greens and PC stepping aside to help the LDs. Farage still plays the tune BoJo dances to.

    Labour's dismal performance also calls into question their appetite for an election; and judging from the rather well connected voices at the guardian, they are also in no way prepared for an election either.
    _
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    The actual farmers have been bleating for decades. NFU represents the interests of big corporate farmers.

    Isn't most of the actual farming these days done by said big corporate farmers?

    Anyone making a success of farming over the last few years will have been acutely aware of the EU subsidy system.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,562
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Free market proponents the Tories have outlined plans to buy up any lamb or beef at the point of slaughter at a pre-determined price in the event of no-deal, as the vast a majority of that meat would normally be exported, but would not be able to.

    When it is a group of people who campaigned to leave then they should just be left to accept the consequences of their actions. They have to experience bad things so that they can make better decisions in the future.

    They can't really be blamed as they didn't campaign to leave without a deal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836

    If I remember correctly it was well known that the fishymen were ******* themselves as they were shutting themselves out of their markets. Hill farmers should have known they were shutting themselves out of the fresh market so would be competing in the highly competitive frozen market.

    IIRC the farmers Union was on the side of remaining.

    The actual farmers have been bleating for decades. NFU represents the interests of big corporate farmers.

    I'm curious how you know that Welsh sheep farmers voted to Leave. The best reference I can find suggests that they were not as daft as their compatriots.

    https://www.bidwells.co.uk/insights-and ... ndum-poll/
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Jez mon wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    The actual farmers have been bleating for decades. NFU represents the interests of big corporate farmers.

    Isn't most of the actual farming these days done by said big corporate farmers?

    Anyone making a success of farming over the last few years will have been acutely aware of the EU subsidy system.

    I know a few farmers and none seem to connect their various subsidies with the EU.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,154
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pleased LDs won the seat but not a very encouraging result; Tories would likely have won had it not been for the Brexit Party, despite the greens and PC stepping aside to help the LDs. Farage still plays the tune BoJo dances to.

    Labour's dismal performance also calls into question their appetite for an election; and judging from the rather well connected voices at the guardian, they are also in no way prepared for an election either.

    And the Conservative candidate was the person who triggered the by-election by being found guilty in court of faking invoices to falsify his expenses, and still might have won if it wasn't for Farage.

    Country is still split 50/50.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    The Brexit Party
    @brexitparty_uk
    We are preparing to fight all 650 seats across the country in a Brexit General Election


    This is either a PR message and not true or an ill thought out strategy.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,562
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The Brexit Party
    @brexitparty_uk
    We are preparing to fight all 650 seats across the country in a Brexit General Election


    This is either a PR message and not true or an ill thought out strategy.

    Farage has practically begged the Conservatives to step aside Labour/leave seats and they've turned him down so I suppose he doesn't have an alternative.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    rjsterry wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The Brexit Party
    @brexitparty_uk
    We are preparing to fight all 650 seats across the country in a Brexit General Election


    This is either a PR message and not true or an ill thought out strategy.

    Farage has practically begged the Conservatives to step aside Labour/leave seats and they've turned him down so I suppose he doesn't have an alternative.

    Why stand against ERG conservatives?
    Why stand against the DUP?

    I don't know if any ERG would be vulnerable but one DUP example is Belfast South

    (Though to be fair is likely the Brexit Party probably don't know 18 of those 650 seats aren't on the island of the UK)
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836

    Raab's been lying about what he said during the referendum. Prick.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    rjsterry wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The Brexit Party
    @brexitparty_uk
    We are preparing to fight all 650 seats across the country in a Brexit General Election


    This is either a PR message and not true or an ill thought out strategy.

    Farage has practically begged the Conservatives to step aside Labour/leave seats and they've turned him down so I suppose he doesn't have an alternative.

    I can't see either Labour or the Conservatives making a serious electoral pact.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Labour and Tories don't share. They are the big boys.
    _
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    if there is a general election before we leave they may as well have another referendum, because that's all it'll come down to.

    would be interesting to see the Brexit party pushed on issues that aren't to do with brexit though - it also isn't a very forward thinking name, unless they don't think we'll leave?
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Chris Bass wrote:
    if there is a general election before we leave they may as well have another referendum, because that's all it'll come down to.

    would be interesting to see the Brexit party pushed on issues that aren't to do with brexit though - it also isn't a very forward thinking name, unless they don't think we'll leave?

    I really do not see a GE as a proxy for a referendum
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,330
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    if there is a general election before we leave they may as well have another referendum, because that's all it'll come down to.

    would be interesting to see the Brexit party pushed on issues that aren't to do with brexit though - it also isn't a very forward thinking name, unless they don't think we'll leave?

    I really do not see a GE as a proxy for a referendum
    It would certainly be the main topic though.
    Labour would struggle as they'd have to pick a side of the fence they are currently sitting on.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    if there is a general election before we leave they may as well have another referendum, because that's all it'll come down to.

    would be interesting to see the Brexit party pushed on issues that aren't to do with brexit though - it also isn't a very forward thinking name, unless they don't think we'll leave?

    I really do not see a GE as a proxy for a referendum
    It would certainly be the main topic though.
    Labour would struggle as they'd have to pick a side of the fence they are currently sitting on.

    I don’t believe it is for most people. You have outliers on either end of the debate making a lot of noise but the vast majority have an opinion but not all consuming.

    My in-laws hate the idea of Brexit but would vote for a monkey with a blue rosette.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,330
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    if there is a general election before we leave they may as well have another referendum, because that's all it'll come down to.

    would be interesting to see the Brexit party pushed on issues that aren't to do with brexit though - it also isn't a very forward thinking name, unless they don't think we'll leave?

    I really do not see a GE as a proxy for a referendum
    It would certainly be the main topic though.
    Labour would struggle as they'd have to pick a side of the fence they are currently sitting on.

    I don’t believe it is for most people. You have outliers on either end of the debate making a lot of noise but the vast majority have an opinion but not all consuming.

    My in-laws hate the idea of Brexit but would vote for a monkey with a blue rosette.
    My experience is the complete opposite. From both sides.
    I guess those two situations sum up the utter confusion in the Country.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Chris Bass wrote:
    if there is a general election before we leave they may as well have another referendum, because that's all it'll come down to.

    would be interesting to see the Brexit party pushed on issues that aren't to do with brexit though - it also isn't a very forward thinking name, unless they don't think we'll leave?

    I really do not see a GE as a proxy for a referendum
    It would certainly be the main topic though.
    Labour would struggle as they'd have to pick a side of the fence they are currently sitting on.

    Meh. They've been pretty clear that a labour brexit would work out as quite a "soft" brexit, if indeed Brexit happened at all.

    I think Labour would again poll strongly amongst people who haven't been doing too well since 2008, and would do well by making that the primary issue, rather than brexit.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,377
    Jez mon wrote:
    They've been pretty clear that a labour brexit would work out as quite a "soft" brexit, if indeed Brexit happened at all.
    Labour haven't been clear about Brexit at all. Worse than that, they are saying one thing (which in itself lacks any clarity whatsoever), while most people know that Corbyn would like Brexit to happen. So not only confusion, but duplicity as well. Great election strategy. They'd be slaughtered.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    They've been pretty clear that a labour brexit would work out as quite a "soft" brexit, if indeed Brexit happened at all.
    Labour haven't been clear about Brexit at all. Worse than that, they are saying one thing (which in itself lacks any clarity whatsoever), while most people know that Corbyn would like Brexit to happen. So not only confusion, but duplicity as well. Great election strategy. They'd be slaughtered.

    Bizarrely everybody thinks JC will deliver a Brexit they don’t want whereas everybody thinks BoJo will deliver the Brexit they do want. Maybe JC needs to tell bigger and more optimistic lies.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Ignore
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    If this take on the timetable to 31 October is correct, then in my view no deal is looking much more likely:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/04/it-is-too-late-to-stop-no-deal-brexit-mps-are-told-10514647/
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,562
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ignore
    Reading some views from around the world of how others see Britain of late, that's not far from a one word summary.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,562
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    If this take on the timetable to 31 October is correct, then in my view no deal is looking much more likely:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/04/it-is-too-late-to-stop-no-deal-brexit-mps-are-told-10514647/

    I suppose we can hope that this is mostly Cummings showing his usual disdain for everyone he considers less intelligent than himself.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    If this take on the timetable to 31 October is correct, then in my view no deal is looking much more likely:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/04/it-is-too-late-to-stop-no-deal-brexit-mps-are-told-10514647/

    I suppose we can hope that this is mostly Cummings showing his usual disdain for everyone he considers less intelligent than himself.
    There may well be some rebuttals in the press. Otherwise we may be able to work it out based on timetables for motions of no confidence/GEs. Not had time to look yet, but given the gap between parliament coming back from recess and the end of October, it doesn't sound totally implausible.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,562
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    If this take on the timetable to 31 October is correct, then in my view no deal is looking much more likely:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/04/it-is-too-late-to-stop-no-deal-brexit-mps-are-told-10514647/

    I suppose we can hope that this is mostly Cummings showing his usual disdain for everyone he considers less intelligent than himself.
    There may well be some rebuttals in the press. Otherwise we may be able to work it out based on timetables for motions of no confidence/GEs. Not had time to look yet, but given the gap between parliament coming back from recess and the end of October, it doesn't sound totally implausible.

    Matthew d'Ancona wrote a piece on the same theme, which was slightly more equivocal but not much more optimistic. He concludes that it is technically possible that a GE is called for the 24th October, but then what? It's difficult to think of how the government and parliament as a whole could have f***ed this up more than they have.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... vote-leave

    And here's that article on views from outside the UK.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... is-johnson
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    It's a pretty tight timetable even if Labour get their act together immediately after the recess, the no-confidence motion is passed. This source thinks that a GE is unlikely to happen before 31 October:-
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-when-next-uk-date-boris-johnson-new-prime-minister/
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Why don’t they reopen parliament?

    If time to debate is a key factor in this recall parliament.
    _

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