BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

blazing_saddles

ballysmate said:

blazing_saddles said:

Wow!
I mean no wonder she sent them back.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

Woman didn't realise that importing stuff from abroad attracted customs duties and VAT?
Saw her picture and she was smiling. I would have been too embarrassed to have reported it, let alone have my picture taken.

She is not an importer, just a consumer, so why would she assume that buying what had been less than 400 quids worth of clothes was going now going to cost her £520?

If nothing else it highlights that choice is now going to come with a hefty price tag.

elbowloh

blazing_saddles said:

ballysmate said:

blazing_saddles said:

Wow!
I mean no wonder she sent them back.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

Woman didn't realise that importing stuff from abroad attracted customs duties and VAT?
Saw her picture and she was smiling. I would have been too embarrassed to have reported it, let alone have my picture taken.

She is not an importer, just a consumer, so why would she assume that buying what had been less than 400 quids worth of clothes was going now going to cost her £520?

If nothing else it highlights that choice is now going to come with a hefty price tag.

I think it's fair to say that most people buying stuff online are used to paying the advertised price, plus delivery charges if relevant, and that's it.

surrey_commuter

elbowloh said:

blazing_saddles said:

ballysmate said:

blazing_saddles said:

Wow!
I mean no wonder she sent them back.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

Woman didn't realise that importing stuff from abroad attracted customs duties and VAT?
Saw her picture and she was smiling. I would have been too embarrassed to have reported it, let alone have my picture taken.

She is not an importer, just a consumer, so why would she assume that buying what had been less than 400 quids worth of clothes was going now going to cost her £520?

If nothing else it highlights that choice is now going to come with a hefty price tag.

I think it's fair to say that most people buying stuff online are used to paying the advertised price, plus delivery charges if relevant, and that's it.

I can see both sides here. It is an inevitable consequence of leaving the SM/CU but as most people have never bought direct from outside the EU they would have no reason to understand the ballache and non-negotiable attitude of goods being held hostage until you pay.

Stevo_666

blazing_saddles said:

ballysmate said:

blazing_saddles said:

Wow!
I mean no wonder she sent them back.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

Woman didn't realise that importing stuff from abroad attracted customs duties and VAT?
Saw her picture and she was smiling. I would have been too embarrassed to have reported it, let alone have my picture taken.

She is not an importer, just a consumer, so why would she assume that buying what had been less than 400 quids worth of clothes was going now going to cost her £520?

If nothing else it highlights that choice is now going to come with a hefty price tag.

She probably thought she had found a bargain. If she had bought it last year from an EU country it would have had the local VAT added in the country where it was sold from and no UK VAT would apply. Now, no EU VAT is included in the price but UK VAT is charged when the goods arrive here. So overall the difference will not be large unless import duties apply - which will not be the case for most things.

ddraver

It will eventually, but I've not actually seen many sites up to date with that yet...

In Switzerland, it was actually quite a good way to spot what was shipped from outside CH or not.

3% off RRP, yeah that's the real price

Good Deal? Yeah, no it isn't actually...

Stevo_666

ddraver said:

It will eventually, but I've not actually seen many sites up to date with that yet...

In Switzerland, it was actually quite a good way to spot what was shipped from outside CH or not.

3% off RRP, yeah that's the real price

Good Deal? Yeah, no it isn't actually...

It will take a bit of time to adjust, although sellers and platforms should be more proactive here. I have bought a few things from overseas and automatically factor in the 20% UK VAT, although clearly many do not.

ddraver

I can tell you that every December/January there are a bunch of outraged posts in the Resort Community Facebook group in Switzerland from non-swiss people ordering from their usual websites as normal and getting a surprise bill for Customs and Swiss VAT.

A lot of people are in for a shock similar to the woman up thread...

Stevo_666

Part of the adjustment process I guess - it will become the norm soon.

In the end it is just a different way of making sure that VAT gets charged once on a sale so that UK suppliers are not disadvantaged compared to overseas suppliers and has been the case for non-EU imports for a long time.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

Part of the adjustment process I guess - it will become the norm soon.

In the end it is just a different way of making sure that VAT gets charged once on a sale so that UK suppliers are not disadvantaged compared to overseas suppliers and has been the case for non-EU imports for a long time.

UK consumers are losing out because the same things are now costing more.

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

Part of the adjustment process I guess - it will become the norm soon.

In the end it is just a different way of making sure that VAT gets charged once on a sale so that UK suppliers are not disadvantaged compared to overseas suppliers and has been the case for non-EU imports for a long time.

I imagine a lot of sites will block UK purchasers (and vice versa) to avoid expensive returns

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

Part of the adjustment process I guess - it will become the norm soon.

In the end it is just a different way of making sure that VAT gets charged once on a sale so that UK suppliers are not disadvantaged compared to overseas suppliers and has been the case for non-EU imports for a long time.

And also "additional charges" from the carrier because their costs have increased.

ballysmate

blazing_saddles said:

ballysmate said:

blazing_saddles said:

Wow!
I mean no wonder she sent them back.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

Woman didn't realise that importing stuff from abroad attracted customs duties and VAT?
Saw her picture and she was smiling. I would have been too embarrassed to have reported it, let alone have my picture taken.

She is not an importer, just a consumer, so why would she assume that buying what had been less than 400 quids worth of clothes was going now going to cost her £520?

If nothing else it highlights that choice is now going to come with a hefty price tag.

I understood that if you received items from abroad, you imported them even if they were for your own use as the duty they attracted used to be called import tax. No matter.
When DVDs were still novel, I had a multi region player and used to send for discs from the US because they were released there earlier than here. Had to pay the tax and vat. Got used to having to pay the relevant tax, dependant on what value the shipper had declared.

ddraver

To give you some idea we're increasingly getting calls from people who haven't registered with customs, haven't registered for EORI numbers etc etc who expect us to make all the customs procedures disappear for them. We are talking significant businesses



What do you want us to do about it?

Welkom to de Brexit sir, I'm sorry

surrey_commuter

ddraver said:

To give you some idea we're increasingly getting calls from people who haven't registered with customs, haven't registered for EORI numbers etc etc who expect us to make all the customs procedures disappear for them. We are talking significant businesses



What do you want us to do about it?

Welkom to de Brexit sir, I'm sorry

can they not send the paperwork to Boris to throw in the bin for them?

yorkshireraw

ddraver said:

To give you some idea we're increasingly getting calls from people who haven't registered with customs, haven't registered for EORI numbers etc etc who expect us to make all the customs procedures disappear for them. We are talking significant businesses



What do you want us to do about it?

Welkom to de Brexit sir, I'm sorry

Whilst I think Brexit is a very bad idea that has subsequently been managed very badly, by bad people for bad reasons (vs. the common good) - any business that had a reasonable amount of EU trade would, one would expect, have taken some interest in how to manage things after Jan 1. It's not like it's not been in the news for 4.5 years. Bizarre.

yorkshireraw

surrey_commuter said:

ddraver said:

To give you some idea we're increasingly getting calls from people who haven't registered with customs, haven't registered for EORI numbers etc etc who expect us to make all the customs procedures disappear for them. We are talking significant businesses



What do you want us to do about it?

Welkom to de Brexit sir, I'm sorry

can they not send the paperwork to Boris to throw in the bin for them?

If we'd just thrown Boris in the bin to start with, all this could have been avoided.

surrey_commuter

yorkshireraw said:

ddraver said:

To give you some idea we're increasingly getting calls from people who haven't registered with customs, haven't registered for EORI numbers etc etc who expect us to make all the customs procedures disappear for them. We are talking significant businesses



What do you want us to do about it?

Welkom to de Brexit sir, I'm sorry

Whilst I think Brexit is a very bad idea that has subsequently been managed very badly, by bad people for bad reasons (vs. the common good) - any business that had a reasonable amount of EU trade would, one would expect, have taken some interest in how to manage things after Jan 1. It's not like it's not been in the news for 4.5 years. Bizarre.

surely many of these could be very small businesses with the boss/owner juggling many different functions, surely it is conceivable that he just listened to the mood music and believed the headlines and thought that access would be the same as before. There can be very few people with experience of what life was like before the Single Market.

It is staggering how many farmers/fishermen understood that they were shutting themselves out of the "fresh" market and would be operating in the globally competitive and less lucrative "frozen" market. But then why should they understand the vagaries of international trade and be able to spot who is lying to them.

pblakeney

yorkshireraw said:

ddraver said:

To give you some idea we're increasingly getting calls from people who haven't registered with customs, haven't registered for EORI numbers etc etc who expect us to make all the customs procedures disappear for them. We are talking significant businesses



What do you want us to do about it?

Welkom to de Brexit sir, I'm sorry

Whilst I think Brexit is a very bad idea that has subsequently been managed very badly, by bad people for bad reasons (vs. the common good) - any business that had a reasonable amount of EU trade would, one would expect, have taken some interest in how to manage things after Jan 1. It's not like it's not been in the news for 4.5 years. Bizarre.

It is quite possible that a significant amount of businesses had not considered a part of the UK to suddenly effectively become part of the EU.

blazing_saddles

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Part of the adjustment process I guess - it will become the norm soon.

In the end it is just a different way of making sure that VAT gets charged once on a sale so that UK suppliers are not disadvantaged compared to overseas suppliers and has been the case for non-EU imports for a long time.

UK consumers are losing out because the same things are now costing more.

They are no longer to be referred to as consumers but importers.

surrey_commuter

pblakeney said:

yorkshireraw said:

ddraver said:

To give you some idea we're increasingly getting calls from people who haven't registered with customs, haven't registered for EORI numbers etc etc who expect us to make all the customs procedures disappear for them. We are talking significant businesses



What do you want us to do about it?

Welkom to de Brexit sir, I'm sorry

Whilst I think Brexit is a very bad idea that has subsequently been managed very badly, by bad people for bad reasons (vs. the common good) - any business that had a reasonable amount of EU trade would, one would expect, have taken some interest in how to manage things after Jan 1. It's not like it's not been in the news for 4.5 years. Bizarre.

It is quite possible that a significant amount of businesses had not considered a part of the UK to suddenly effectively become part of the EU.

Am I right in thinking that boris and co are still denying this? if so you can see why it would be confusing for a small trader

briantrumpet

surrey_commuter said:

But then why should they understand the vagaries of international trade and be able to spot who is lying to them.

It wasn't unreasonable to assume those who said that any aspect of Brexit would be easy were lying.

Stevo_666

ddraver said:

To give you some idea we're increasingly getting calls from people who haven't registered with customs, haven't registered for EORI numbers etc etc who expect us to make all the customs procedures disappear for them. We are talking significant businesses



What do you want us to do about it?

Welkom to de Brexit sir, I'm sorry

Not sure how significant businesses managed to miss that sort of thing unless they are incompetent. It was pretty clear to my group some time ago and the advisors were all banging the drum, plus HMRC themselves were prompting their 'customers'. Plus Brexit was hardly off the news for 4 years. I lost count of how many times the same stuff was repeated from multiple sources.

A classic case of PPPPP?

john80

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Part of the adjustment process I guess - it will become the norm soon.

In the end it is just a different way of making sure that VAT gets charged once on a sale so that UK suppliers are not disadvantaged compared to overseas suppliers and has been the case for non-EU imports for a long time.

UK consumers are losing out because the same things are now costing more.

They are just not losing out to any significant level.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

Part of the adjustment process I guess - it will become the norm soon.

In the end it is just a different way of making sure that VAT gets charged once on a sale so that UK suppliers are not disadvantaged compared to overseas suppliers and has been the case for non-EU imports for a long time.

UK consumers are losing out because the same things are now costing more.

If you read my fairly recent explanation above about VAT and customs you will see why there should not be a material difference due to those factors.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

Part of the adjustment process I guess - it will become the norm soon.

In the end it is just a different way of making sure that VAT gets charged once on a sale so that UK suppliers are not disadvantaged compared to overseas suppliers and has been the case for non-EU imports for a long time.

And also "additional charges" from the carrier because their costs have increased.

There has definitely been an element of supply and demand related pricing by carriers in the short term. That should settle down as capacity adjusts etc and the market factors in the overall costs.

pangolin

"Consumers aren't worse off"

"Consumers are worse off due to additional charges but don't worry that's probably short term"

Blink and you'd miss it.

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

"Consumers aren't worse off"

"Consumers are worse off due to additional charges but don't worry that's probably short term"

Blink and you'd miss it.

For those that import things themselves, I think we have seen some of this. However you are siezing on a short term issue which applies in specific situations, as mentioned.

Personally I haven't noticed any price rises of anything that I've bought this month. Have you?

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

"Consumers aren't worse off"

"Consumers are worse off due to additional charges but don't worry that's probably short term"

Blink and you'd miss it.

For those that import things themselves, I think we have seen some of this. However you are siezing on a short term issue which applies in specific situations, as mentioned.

Personally I haven't noticed any price rises of anything that I've bought this month. Have you?

Well, since it's a cycling forum, and their new ambassador is Tom Boonen, of all people.

https://uk.lapassione.cc/pages/customer-care

Amongst the other changes: Returns will be entrusted to DHL. No returns will be accepted unless previously requested as such and, given the above-mentioned changes, the company is required to produce and provide all the necessary documents, including custom invoice ( £5 management fee ).

Which is a pain for an online-only cycling clothing shop - fit is important and so therefore returns are too.

ddraver

Stevo_666 said:

ddraver said:

To give you some idea we're increasingly getting calls from people who haven't registered with customs, haven't registered for EORI numbers etc etc who expect us to make all the customs procedures disappear for them. We are talking significant businesses



What do you want us to do about it?

Welkom to de Brexit sir, I'm sorry

Not sure how significant businesses managed to miss that sort of thing unless they are incompetent. It was pretty clear to my group some time ago and the advisors were all banging the drum, plus HMRC themselves were prompting their 'customers'. Plus Brexit was hardly off the news for 4 years. I lost count of how many times the same stuff was repeated from multiple sources.

A classic case of PPPPP?

If you can think of a customer relations friendly way of saying that, let me know...

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

"Consumers aren't worse off"

"Consumers are worse off due to additional charges but don't worry that's probably short term"

Blink and you'd miss it.

For those that import things themselves, I think we have seen some of this. However you are siezing on a short term issue which applies in specific situations, as mentioned.

Personally I haven't noticed any price rises of anything that I've bought this month. Have you?

I haven't bought anything direct from the EU. I expect where larger businesses are in the middle, like supermarkets, there will be a lag and things will settle at a slightly higher average cost. For direct purchases things will probably settle a little lower than now, but again slightly higher than while we were in the EU.

#winning