BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Yeah, probably.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony0 -
Quick Google suggests that Germany didn't have an economic boom in the 1920s, and as early as 1923 inflation whad spiralled out of control and the mark was becoming worthless, to the point that on 15 November 1923, it took 4.2 trillion German marks to buy a single American dollar.rick_chasey said:Right, so if it's so punitive, why does Germany a) go through an economic boom in the 20s and then b) have to get absolutely murdered in the The Depression a good decade and a bit after the Versaille Treaty to get the Nazis elected, and even then another 8 years of getting themselves embedded to the point that Hitler could call the shots at a whim?
It was only after the 'victors' eased the level of reparation payments to a more realistic level, and ceased their occupation of the Ruhr that the German economy stablised and recovered, but a huge amount of resentment had built up by then and Hitler was already active.1 -
Oh don't make it so easy.Dorset_Boy said:
Quick Google suggests that Germany didn't have an economic boom in the 1920s, and as early as 1923 inflation whad spiralled out of control and the mark was becoming worthless, to the point that on 15 November 1923, it took 4.2 trillion German marks to buy a single American dollar.rick_chasey said:Right, so if it's so punitive, why does Germany a) go through an economic boom in the 20s and then b) have to get absolutely murdered in the The Depression a good decade and a bit after the Versaille Treaty to get the Nazis elected, and even then another 8 years of getting themselves embedded to the point that Hitler could call the shots at a whim?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zwxnqhv/revision/1
And the other argument is the German gov't chose the wrong path to pay them off.
Don't get me wrong, they reparations were expensive, but if you think they brought the Nazis in you gotta explain why the Nazis were in the wilderness till 1927.
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This has become the History Today thread.
See that drop of spit down there?
That's you that is.
Not sure how much of this has to do with Brexit, especially now that we've left.0 -
Think it's just the need to win. We've left, so if the EU does well, that increases the UK's chances of having "lost".surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony0 -
😂Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
had not considered that - I struggle with the idea of not wanting your biggest trade partner (and the rest of the world) to flourishkingstongraham said:
Think it's just the need to win. We've left, so if the EU does well, that increases the UK's chances of having "lost".surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony0 -
I have a theory that a decade on no wage growth for most people has meant everyone sees the world in much more zero-sum terms than they did a decade ago.surrey_commuter said:
had not considered that - I struggle with the idea of not wanting your biggest trade partner (and the rest of the world) to flourishkingstongraham said:
Think it's just the need to win. We've left, so if the EU does well, that increases the UK's chances of having "lost".surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony0 -
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?0 -
its not when things are going well there's an issue.pangolin said:
Surely if a union is functioning well the point is that countries don't ever get to the brink of war.ballysmate said:Should be an easy question for you Brian. Can you give us some examples of where wars were averted by virtue of the potential combatants being in the EU? When the rest of Europe figuratively mopped its brow and sighed, "That was close! Thank god they are in the EU."
The concept is explained to B3nder in Futurama in this scene
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No, if the EU does well that increases the opportunities for its trading partners. The glass can be half full as well as bone dry.kingstongraham said:
Think it's just the need to win. We've left, so if the EU does well, that increases the UK's chances of having "lost".surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony0 -
how would you explain your continuing and seemingly religious adherence to a historic trading partnershipsurrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?1 -
Wee Mikey has held a grudge ever since he blamed the EU for ruining his adoptive Dad's fish business. With his mate now ruining the Scottish fishing industry all over again, it seems history has a sense of irony.surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
your mistake is to believe that your hatred is mirrored by a corresponding love for the EU.david37 said:
how would you explain your continuing and seemingly religious adherence to a historic trading partnershipsurrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
Anyway have you accepted that services are not covered in the FTA, and are you ready to discuss whether that was our optimum outcome?0 -
Indeed.david37 said:
No, if the EU does well that increases the opportunities for its trading partners. The glass can be half full as well as bone dry.kingstongraham said:
Think it's just the need to win. We've left, so if the EU does well, that increases the UK's chances of having "lost".surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony0 -
What malevolence?surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
I am less bothered now we have left, although I will continue to judge them on how they behave towards us in future.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]2 -
It seems that if you are not an EU zealot then you are malevolent. No middle ground.Stevo_666 said:
What malevolence?surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
I am less bothered now we have left, although I will continue to judge them on how they behave towards us in future.2 -
And there you go. Anyone who takes even a slightly more positive view of the EU than you and Stevo is apparently now a zealot.ballysmate said:
It seems that if you are not an EU zealot then you are malevolent. No middle ground.Stevo_666 said:
What malevolence?surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
I am less bothered now we have left, although I will continue to judge them on how they behave towards us in future.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
So we were Blakey, so we were. One 28th of it in fact. Influencing the EU from inside eh?pblakeney said:
As did Russia. That is how these things begin.ballysmate said:
And the EU played its part in destabilising the area by courting Ukraine.pblakeney said:
However is does show what people are capable of once they start disagreeing, and in relatively recent history. Ukraine could be next. Still, nowt to do with us...elbowloh said:Can we please stop comparing Jugoslavia with the EU. Yugoslavia was ruled an absolute monarchy, under a marxist-leninist government and as a dictatorship. It was never really a confederation of sovereign states like the EU.
PS - We were a major part of the EU at the beginning of this saga.
Do you think fannying about with Ukraine was in line with UK foreign policy?
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Well in fairness there does seem to be a healthy zealous pro European approach and anyone who is not on the EU good Brexit bad bandwaggon gets it in the neck. though the zealous might be blind to their "zeal"rjsterry said:
And there you go. Anyone who takes even a slightly more positive view of the EU than you and Stevo is apparently now a zealot.ballysmate said:
It seems that if you are not an EU zealot then you are malevolent. No middle ground.Stevo_666 said:
What malevolence?surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
I am less bothered now we have left, although I will continue to judge them on how they behave towards us in future.0 -
I think there are a few on here. Although Joelsim (aka cat bloke) was the most amusing example. I think he got banned for abusing people less zealous than him.rjsterry said:
And there you go. Anyone who takes even a slightly more positive view of the EU than you and Stevo is apparently now a zealot.ballysmate said:
It seems that if you are not an EU zealot then you are malevolent. No middle ground.Stevo_666 said:
What malevolence?surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
I am less bothered now we have left, although I will continue to judge them on how they behave towards us in future."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Slightly more positive? Slightly?rjsterry said:
And there you go. Anyone who takes even a slightly more positive view of the EU than you and Stevo is apparently now a zealot.ballysmate said:
It seems that if you are not an EU zealot then you are malevolent. No middle ground.Stevo_666 said:
What malevolence?surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
I am less bothered now we have left, although I will continue to judge them on how they behave towards us in future.0 -
Stevo_666 said:
I think there are a few on here. Although Joelsim (aka cat bloke) was the most amusing example. I think he got banned for abusing people less zealous than him.rjsterry said:
And there you go. Anyone who takes even a slightly more positive view of the EU than you and Stevo is apparently now a zealot.ballysmate said:
It seems that if you are not an EU zealot then you are malevolent. No middle ground.Stevo_666 said:
What malevolence?surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
I am less bothered now we have left, although I will continue to judge them on how they behave towards us in future.
I look forward to some quotations to prove your point.
BTW, pointing out that staying in the EU was a better choice than leaving it does not make someone a zealot. If you can find any posts that say the EU was perfect and can do no wrong, I'll concede the point.
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I thought he got banned for industrial scale cat kicking when the result of the referendum was announced.Stevo_666 said:
I think there are a few on here. Although Joelsim (aka cat bloke) was the most amusing example. I think he got banned for abusing people less zealous than him.rjsterry said:
And there you go. Anyone who takes even a slightly more positive view of the EU than you and Stevo is apparently now a zealot.ballysmate said:
It seems that if you are not an EU zealot then you are malevolent. No middle ground.Stevo_666 said:
What malevolence?surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
I am less bothered now we have left, although I will continue to judge them on how they behave towards us in future.0 -
I'd prefer to think that it was, than think they weren't interested. The fact that we are cooperating militarily with Ukraine and Belarus would indicate an interest.ballysmate said:
So we were Blakey, so we were. One 28th of it in fact. Influencing the EU from inside eh?pblakeney said:
As did Russia. That is how these things begin.ballysmate said:
And the EU played its part in destabilising the area by courting Ukraine.pblakeney said:
However is does show what people are capable of once they start disagreeing, and in relatively recent history. Ukraine could be next. Still, nowt to do with us...elbowloh said:Can we please stop comparing Jugoslavia with the EU. Yugoslavia was ruled an absolute monarchy, under a marxist-leninist government and as a dictatorship. It was never really a confederation of sovereign states like the EU.
PS - We were a major part of the EU at the beginning of this saga.
Do you think fannying about with Ukraine was in line with UK foreign policy?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Think of it less as zeal for the EU and more as a loathing of nationalism in all its forms.david37 said:
Well in fairness there does seem to be a healthy zealous pro European approach and anyone who is not on the EU good Brexit bad bandwaggon gets it in the neck. though the zealous might be blind to their "zeal"rjsterry said:
And there you go. Anyone who takes even a slightly more positive view of the EU than you and Stevo is apparently now a zealot.ballysmate said:
It seems that if you are not an EU zealot then you are malevolent. No middle ground.Stevo_666 said:
What malevolence?surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
I am less bothered now we have left, although I will continue to judge them on how they behave towards us in future.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
What if you see the EU as nationalism?rjsterry said:
Think of it less as zeal for the EU and more as a loathing of nationalism in all its forms.david37 said:
Well in fairness there does seem to be a healthy zealous pro European approach and anyone who is not on the EU good Brexit bad bandwaggon gets it in the neck. though the zealous might be blind to their "zeal"rjsterry said:
And there you go. Anyone who takes even a slightly more positive view of the EU than you and Stevo is apparently now a zealot.ballysmate said:
It seems that if you are not an EU zealot then you are malevolent. No middle ground.Stevo_666 said:
What malevolence?surrey_commuter said:
probably true to say that there are a myriad of reasons, I was looking at the Leave Leadership.Stevo_666 said:
See my point above. Also good if you can avoid lazy stereotyping.surrey_commuter said:
The continued malevolence towards the EU would suggest their issue is the EU not GB's membership of it.focuszing723 said:Isn't this discussion futile, it's happened. The EU was created at that moment in time and has evolved since into a union which can command more power, rather than an individual European country. Isn't this a good thing given that soon China will have the largest economy and consequential military budget at it's disposable?
I don't get why some people seem fixated and take pleasure in anything negative which happens to it? I bet the same people are happy to spend money on European cars and holidays bragging at how wonderful they've been (if you hate it so much buy British). Completely bizarre to me!
Why is another interesting question, my own guess is that it is because they see GB through a Nelsonian/Victorian lens so see the EU as a threat to their European hegemony
How would you explain your own continued malevolence towards the EU?
I am less bothered now we have left, although I will continue to judge them on how they behave towards us in future.0 -
The European Union is a geo-political entity covering a large portion of the European continent. It is founded upon numerous treaties and has undergone expansions and secessions that have taken it from 6 member states to 27, a majority of the states in Europe.
Apart from the ideas of federation, confederation, or customs union such as Winston Churchill's 1946 call for a "United States of Europe", the original development of the European Union was based on a supranational foundation that would "make war unthinkable and materially impossible" and reinforce democracy amongst its members as laid out by Robert Schuman and other leaders in the Schuman Declaration (1950) and the Europe Declaration (1951).
I wonder what people thought of the concept at the time? I guess they'd had enough of fighting, just wanted peace and to get on with their lives.0 -
Broadly, yes. Allowing Russia to try to reclaim a bit of its former empire is definitely not in our interests.ballysmate said:
So we were Blakey, so we were. One 28th of it in fact. Influencing the EU from inside eh?pblakeney said:
As did Russia. That is how these things begin.ballysmate said:
And the EU played its part in destabilising the area by courting Ukraine.pblakeney said:
However is does show what people are capable of once they start disagreeing, and in relatively recent history. Ukraine could be next. Still, nowt to do with us...elbowloh said:Can we please stop comparing Jugoslavia with the EU. Yugoslavia was ruled an absolute monarchy, under a marxist-leninist government and as a dictatorship. It was never really a confederation of sovereign states like the EU.
PS - We were a major part of the EU at the beginning of this saga.
Do you think fannying about with Ukraine was in line with UK foreign policy?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
