BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Let's have a look at the fish vs FS scale.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06193/
2019 parliament report puts FS at 6.9% of UK GDP and 3.1% of all UK jobs (who knew, FS was high earning, eh?) That's £132bn to the economy per year and 1.1m jobs
(As an aside: 43% of financial services exports went to the EU and 34% of financial services imports came from the EU)
Anyway, fish. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf
two years older at 2017, so expect some marginal differences.
There were 4,000 businesses in the fishing industry in 2016. These businesses employed 24,000 people and contributed £1.4 billion (0.12% of the all UK economic output.) to the UK economy in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA – a measure similar to GDP, abeit flattering, as it's just 0.12% of the all UK economic output)
(For Scottish Indie's, just over half of these fishermen are in Scotland...)
So we're not that far off FS being two orders of magnitude more valuable than fishing.
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the posted article is saying that they are asking how we intend divergingjohn80 said:
Do you even know what this paperwork is, who assesses it once complete and what the point of it is. If it is an exercise in finding out if Britain is equivalent to a block it has been part of for decades then it would seem that there is little point in this.rick_chasey said:
I am f@cking furious about this.surrey_commuter said:
I am thinking next on the list will be ECHR, ICC then climate change agreement thingy. Don’t think they will have the balls to leave UN, NATO or WTO without Yanks leaving first.rick_chasey said:
This is so stupid. Just do the f*cking paperwork.Stevo_666 said:
I guess that is also bad news for EU firms who wish to operate in/have access to the world's largest financial market. Unless of course the EU realises this and are playing games...mfin said:Barnier confirms UK has missed Brexit equivalence assessment deadline
https://cityam.com/barnier-confirms-uk-has-not-completed-brexit-equivalence-assessments/
There is no good reason not to do the paperwork.
This is only sh!t for everyone involved and it's entirely on the UK.
I dare anyone to defend this appalling bit of governance.1 -
The implied idea that we are not playing games is pretty funny. Of course they're playing games: who would expect either party to behave differently?Stevo_666 said:
Same goes for the EU. I suspect they already know the answer (as do we) but are playing games.rick_chasey said:What I don't get it is, the UK has been asking for equivalence for a long time. 3-4 years in fact.
This information should in large part have been readily available. The Treasury is easily the best staffed function in whitehall. Time isn't really an excuse.
Need to get 100 people to work the weekend? Just do it, FFS. Need to draft more people in? Get on with it.
Equivalence is really really properly important to FS. I mean really important.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Sometimes i think you believe that there is not another party in this negotiation. Just move to the EU ot will be much easier for you and your mental health.rick_chasey said:
Let me spell it out for you.john80 said:
You approach this as if the EU is a client. It is not. Look at it as more of a wife. If its reasonable the marriage will tick along nicely. If the wife thinks she is a client then it is probably time for a divorce and go your separate ways.rick_chasey said:
When I'm negotiating terms with a client, regardless of what I think of the client or if I know I want the business yet, I still do their f*cking reams of paperwork punctually.TheBigBean said:
You know it is just negotiation - it is not an actual deadline?rick_chasey said:No excuses for laziness in any professional.
Not doing the paperwork is never an excuse. Ever.
That's a stone cold sacking for whoever is responsible for it, in any job.
What kind of message does not doing the paperwork send?
What good reason can there be for not doing the equivalence questionnaire?
It is in everyone's interest agree on FS equivalence, right?
The UK has asked for this consistently since Brexit was announced. The City has lobbied for this extensively, and it has been a cornerstone of the Brexiter "it'll be OK why is everyone panicking" argument when it comes to FS. (Have a think about what proportion FS is to the UK economy vs, say, fishing).
The UK also agreed with the EU on the deadline for establishing where there could be equivalence.
The UK could have also asked for an extension on the deadline, if, for, whatever reason they were unable to meet the deadline.
So, there are a few questions.
a) why did Britain not fill out the paperwork.
If we are to believe the Brits, that there wasn't enough time to do them, then
b) why did they not ask for an extension - which the EU has already said they would agree to?
It's not like no-one knew what the deadline was. The UK literally agreed to it!2 -
We are a democracy. Why would you say anything other than we are compliant now and we cannot predict the future. This is just a gambit to tie a trading partners hands and maybe even get the european court to adjudicate. Anyone who thinks the EU does not have a plan is deluding themselves. We dont have to dance to it all the time and guess what Barnier is not happy with our stance.surrey_commuter said:
the posted article is saying that they are asking how we intend divergingjohn80 said:
Do you even know what this paperwork is, who assesses it once complete and what the point of it is. If it is an exercise in finding out if Britain is equivalent to a block it has been part of for decades then it would seem that there is little point in this.rick_chasey said:
I am f@cking furious about this.surrey_commuter said:
I am thinking next on the list will be ECHR, ICC then climate change agreement thingy. Don’t think they will have the balls to leave UN, NATO or WTO without Yanks leaving first.rick_chasey said:
This is so stupid. Just do the f*cking paperwork.Stevo_666 said:
I guess that is also bad news for EU firms who wish to operate in/have access to the world's largest financial market. Unless of course the EU realises this and are playing games...mfin said:Barnier confirms UK has missed Brexit equivalence assessment deadline
https://cityam.com/barnier-confirms-uk-has-not-completed-brexit-equivalence-assessments/
There is no good reason not to do the paperwork.
This is only sh!t for everyone involved and it's entirely on the UK.
I dare anyone to defend this appalling bit of governance.0 -
A powerful riposte.john80 said:
Sometimes i think you believe that there is not another party in this negotiation. Just move to the EU ot will be much easier for you and your mental health.rick_chasey said:
Let me spell it out for you.john80 said:
You approach this as if the EU is a client. It is not. Look at it as more of a wife. If its reasonable the marriage will tick along nicely. If the wife thinks she is a client then it is probably time for a divorce and go your separate ways.rick_chasey said:
When I'm negotiating terms with a client, regardless of what I think of the client or if I know I want the business yet, I still do their f*cking reams of paperwork punctually.TheBigBean said:
You know it is just negotiation - it is not an actual deadline?rick_chasey said:No excuses for laziness in any professional.
Not doing the paperwork is never an excuse. Ever.
That's a stone cold sacking for whoever is responsible for it, in any job.
What kind of message does not doing the paperwork send?
What good reason can there be for not doing the equivalence questionnaire?
It is in everyone's interest agree on FS equivalence, right?
The UK has asked for this consistently since Brexit was announced. The City has lobbied for this extensively, and it has been a cornerstone of the Brexiter "it'll be OK why is everyone panicking" argument when it comes to FS. (Have a think about what proportion FS is to the UK economy vs, say, fishing).
The UK also agreed with the EU on the deadline for establishing where there could be equivalence.
The UK could have also asked for an extension on the deadline, if, for, whatever reason they were unable to meet the deadline.
So, there are a few questions.
a) why did Britain not fill out the paperwork.
If we are to believe the Brits, that there wasn't enough time to do them, then
b) why did they not ask for an extension - which the EU has already said they would agree to?
It's not like no-one knew what the deadline was. The UK literally agreed to it!0 -
The idea usually implied on this thread is that the UK isn't sufficiently competent to play games.rjsterry said:
The implied idea that we are not playing games is pretty funny. Of course they're playing games: who would expect either party to behave differently?Stevo_666 said:
Same goes for the EU. I suspect they already know the answer (as do we) but are playing games.rick_chasey said:What I don't get it is, the UK has been asking for equivalence for a long time. 3-4 years in fact.
This information should in large part have been readily available. The Treasury is easily the best staffed function in whitehall. Time isn't really an excuse.
Need to get 100 people to work the weekend? Just do it, FFS. Need to draft more people in? Get on with it.
Equivalence is really really properly important to FS. I mean really important.
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Play games, yes. With whom and at what standard is another question.TheBigBean said:
The idea usually implied on this thread is that the UK isn't sufficiently competent to play games.rjsterry said:
The implied idea that we are not playing games is pretty funny. Of course they're playing games: who would expect either party to behave differently?Stevo_666 said:
Same goes for the EU. I suspect they already know the answer (as do we) but are playing games.rick_chasey said:What I don't get it is, the UK has been asking for equivalence for a long time. 3-4 years in fact.
This information should in large part have been readily available. The Treasury is easily the best staffed function in whitehall. Time isn't really an excuse.
Need to get 100 people to work the weekend? Just do it, FFS. Need to draft more people in? Get on with it.
Equivalence is really really properly important to FS. I mean really important.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
But we have repeatedly said that we want to diverge. We can refuse to play the game but then we risk the future prosperity of the City.john80 said:
We are a democracy. Why would you say anything other than we are compliant now and we cannot predict the future. This is just a gambit to tie a trading partners hands and maybe even get the european court to adjudicate. Anyone who thinks the EU does not have a plan is deluding themselves. We dont have to dance to it all the time and guess what Barnier is not happy with our stance.surrey_commuter said:
the posted article is saying that they are asking how we intend divergingjohn80 said:
Do you even know what this paperwork is, who assesses it once complete and what the point of it is. If it is an exercise in finding out if Britain is equivalent to a block it has been part of for decades then it would seem that there is little point in this.rick_chasey said:
I am f@cking furious about this.surrey_commuter said:
I am thinking next on the list will be ECHR, ICC then climate change agreement thingy. Don’t think they will have the balls to leave UN, NATO or WTO without Yanks leaving first.rick_chasey said:
This is so stupid. Just do the f*cking paperwork.Stevo_666 said:
I guess that is also bad news for EU firms who wish to operate in/have access to the world's largest financial market. Unless of course the EU realises this and are playing games...mfin said:Barnier confirms UK has missed Brexit equivalence assessment deadline
https://cityam.com/barnier-confirms-uk-has-not-completed-brexit-equivalence-assessments/
There is no good reason not to do the paperwork.
This is only sh!t for everyone involved and it's entirely on the UK.
I dare anyone to defend this appalling bit of governance.
Maybe the financial institutions should buy some fishing boats.0 -
TheBigBean said:
The idea usually implied on this thread is that the UK isn't sufficiently competent to play games.rjsterry said:
The implied idea that we are not playing games is pretty funny. Of course they're playing games: who would expect either party to behave differently?Stevo_666 said:
Same goes for the EU. I suspect they already know the answer (as do we) but are playing games.rick_chasey said:What I don't get it is, the UK has been asking for equivalence for a long time. 3-4 years in fact.
This information should in large part have been readily available. The Treasury is easily the best staffed function in whitehall. Time isn't really an excuse.
Need to get 100 people to work the weekend? Just do it, FFS. Need to draft more people in? Get on with it.
Equivalence is really really properly important to FS. I mean really important.
I know 'how to play' chess and draughts, but I'm shït at both.0 -
I quite like the whole "we don't have to dance to their tune"
As a general rule, smaller markets dance to the tune of bigger markets.
Size of EU 27 economy: $18.8 trillion
Size of UK economy: $2.8 trillion.
It's like 6 whole UKs ganging up on the UK.0 -
I'm sure the UK government will be delighted that you have upped your assessment of them from a level zero player to a level one player.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
The idea usually implied on this thread is that the UK isn't sufficiently competent to play games.rjsterry said:
The implied idea that we are not playing games is pretty funny. Of course they're playing games: who would expect either party to behave differently?Stevo_666 said:
Same goes for the EU. I suspect they already know the answer (as do we) but are playing games.rick_chasey said:What I don't get it is, the UK has been asking for equivalence for a long time. 3-4 years in fact.
This information should in large part have been readily available. The Treasury is easily the best staffed function in whitehall. Time isn't really an excuse.
Need to get 100 people to work the weekend? Just do it, FFS. Need to draft more people in? Get on with it.
Equivalence is really really properly important to FS. I mean really important.
I know 'how to play' chess and draughts, but I'm shït at both.0 -
A generous assessment to be sure.TheBigBean said:
I'm sure the UK government will be delighted that you have upped your assessment of them from a level zero player to a level one player.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
The idea usually implied on this thread is that the UK isn't sufficiently competent to play games.rjsterry said:
The implied idea that we are not playing games is pretty funny. Of course they're playing games: who would expect either party to behave differently?Stevo_666 said:
Same goes for the EU. I suspect they already know the answer (as do we) but are playing games.rick_chasey said:What I don't get it is, the UK has been asking for equivalence for a long time. 3-4 years in fact.
This information should in large part have been readily available. The Treasury is easily the best staffed function in whitehall. Time isn't really an excuse.
Need to get 100 people to work the weekend? Just do it, FFS. Need to draft more people in? Get on with it.
Equivalence is really really properly important to FS. I mean really important.
I know 'how to play' chess and draughts, but I'm shït at both.0 -
It would help if the gov't didn't keep removing the advisors who have been playing the game very successfully their entire career.TheBigBean said:
I'm sure the UK government will be delighted that you have upped your assessment of them from a level zero player to a level one player.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
The idea usually implied on this thread is that the UK isn't sufficiently competent to play games.rjsterry said:
The implied idea that we are not playing games is pretty funny. Of course they're playing games: who would expect either party to behave differently?Stevo_666 said:
Same goes for the EU. I suspect they already know the answer (as do we) but are playing games.rick_chasey said:What I don't get it is, the UK has been asking for equivalence for a long time. 3-4 years in fact.
This information should in large part have been readily available. The Treasury is easily the best staffed function in whitehall. Time isn't really an excuse.
Need to get 100 people to work the weekend? Just do it, FFS. Need to draft more people in? Get on with it.
Equivalence is really really properly important to FS. I mean really important.
I know 'how to play' chess and draughts, but I'm shït at both.0 -
We want the advisors to be playing the game for the benefit of the UK, not the EU.rick_chasey said:
It would help if the gov't didn't keep removing the advisors who have been playing the game very successfully their entire career.TheBigBean said:
I'm sure the UK government will be delighted that you have upped your assessment of them from a level zero player to a level one player.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
The idea usually implied on this thread is that the UK isn't sufficiently competent to play games.rjsterry said:
The implied idea that we are not playing games is pretty funny. Of course they're playing games: who would expect either party to behave differently?Stevo_666 said:
Same goes for the EU. I suspect they already know the answer (as do we) but are playing games.rick_chasey said:What I don't get it is, the UK has been asking for equivalence for a long time. 3-4 years in fact.
This information should in large part have been readily available. The Treasury is easily the best staffed function in whitehall. Time isn't really an excuse.
Need to get 100 people to work the weekend? Just do it, FFS. Need to draft more people in? Get on with it.
Equivalence is really really properly important to FS. I mean really important.
I know 'how to play' chess and draughts, but I'm shït at both.
That you are against these changes means the UK is moving in the correct direction0 -
You'll notice this Twitter account has disappeared faster than the fake story being written about...ddraver said:Does Coop have a holiday home in the Dordogne..?
@ddraver exposes himself as another gullible muppet
#FBPE was never very good to start with but is all fake news and conspiracy theories now0 -
They've packed up a day early with no progress made.0
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I am assuming this is a sign that everything is in the bag and they are just extending the job to fit the time allottedTheBigBean said:They've packed up a day early with no progress made.
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coopster_the_1st said:
You'll notice this Twitter account has disappeared faster than the fake story being written about...ddraver said:Does Coop have a holiday home in the Dordogne..?
@ddraver exposes himself as another gullible muppet
#FBPE was never very good to start with but is all fake news and conspiracy theories now0 -
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The problem with this logic is that if you extrapolate it up then it shows the weakness in running a country with just money leading the decisions. What percentage would be required to sell the inhabitants of that country down the river. What if China said in 2025 when they might be the leading economy in the world that we cannot trade with them unless we sign up to a one way extradition process where having a flag was enough to get deported and put in the Ghulag. Maybe France want all the fishing rights so that some Southerners can keep selling financial products to this market. Maybe Nissan want the UK to have the four freedoms so that they don't have to pay import taxes or export taxes on goods. At what point does it not work within a democracy this money first obsession you have.rick_chasey said:Let's have a look at the fish vs FS scale.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06193/
2019 parliament report puts FS at 6.9% of UK GDP and 3.1% of all UK jobs (who knew, FS was high earning, eh?) That's £132bn to the economy per year and 1.1m jobs
(As an aside: 43% of financial services exports went to the EU and 34% of financial services imports came from the EU)
Anyway, fish. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf
two years older at 2017, so expect some marginal differences.
There were 4,000 businesses in the fishing industry in 2016. These businesses employed 24,000 people and contributed £1.4 billion (0.12% of the all UK economic output.) to the UK economy in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA – a measure similar to GDP, abeit flattering, as it's just 0.12% of the all UK economic output)
(For Scottish Indie's, just over half of these fishermen are in Scotland...)
So we're not that far off FS being two orders of magnitude more valuable than fishing.0 -
can I sell you some commas?john80 said:
The problem with this logic is that if you extrapolate it up then it shows the weakness in running a country with just money leading the decisions. What percentage would be required to sell the inhabitants of that country down the river. What if China said in 2025 when they might be the leading economy in the world that we cannot trade with them unless we sign up to a one way extradition process where having a flag was enough to get deported and put in the Ghulag. Maybe France want all the fishing rights so that some Southerners can keep selling financial products to this market. Maybe Nissan want the UK to have the four freedoms so that they don't have to pay import taxes or export taxes on goods. At what point does it not work within a democracy this money first obsession you have.rick_chasey said:Let's have a look at the fish vs FS scale.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06193/
2019 parliament report puts FS at 6.9% of UK GDP and 3.1% of all UK jobs (who knew, FS was high earning, eh?) That's £132bn to the economy per year and 1.1m jobs
(As an aside: 43% of financial services exports went to the EU and 34% of financial services imports came from the EU)
Anyway, fish. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf
two years older at 2017, so expect some marginal differences.
There were 4,000 businesses in the fishing industry in 2016. These businesses employed 24,000 people and contributed £1.4 billion (0.12% of the all UK economic output.) to the UK economy in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA – a measure similar to GDP, abeit flattering, as it's just 0.12% of the all UK economic output)
(For Scottish Indie's, just over half of these fishermen are in Scotland...)
So we're not that far off FS being two orders of magnitude more valuable than fishing.
democracy harmed by an obsession with money? - check out pensioners
Southerners??? have we finally got to the heart of your issue?0 -
This is not easy to read, and I'm not really sure what you're driving at.john80 said:
The problem with this logic is that if you extrapolate it up then it shows the weakness in running a country with just money leading the decisions. What percentage would be required to sell the inhabitants of that country down the river. What if China said in 2025 when they might be the leading economy in the world that we cannot trade with them unless we sign up to a one way extradition process where having a flag was enough to get deported and put in the Ghulag. Maybe France want all the fishing rights so that some Southerners can keep selling financial products to this market. Maybe Nissan want the UK to have the four freedoms so that they don't have to pay import taxes or export taxes on goods. At what point does it not work within a democracy this money first obsession you have.rick_chasey said:Let's have a look at the fish vs FS scale.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06193/
2019 parliament report puts FS at 6.9% of UK GDP and 3.1% of all UK jobs (who knew, FS was high earning, eh?) That's £132bn to the economy per year and 1.1m jobs
(As an aside: 43% of financial services exports went to the EU and 34% of financial services imports came from the EU)
Anyway, fish. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf
two years older at 2017, so expect some marginal differences.
There were 4,000 businesses in the fishing industry in 2016. These businesses employed 24,000 people and contributed £1.4 billion (0.12% of the all UK economic output.) to the UK economy in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA – a measure similar to GDP, abeit flattering, as it's just 0.12% of the all UK economic output)
(For Scottish Indie's, just over half of these fishermen are in Scotland...)
So we're not that far off FS being two orders of magnitude more valuable than fishing.
Let me put my point in a different way. A lot more jobs are affected by screwing up FS than are affected by screwing up Fishing.
That may not be the *only* factor in deciding what to prioritise, but it is surely a bloody big one?0 -
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That does not bother me as it is much more reassuring to their followers than referring to it as a Rwandan deal. What annoys me is that the media do not pick him up on it.rick_chasey said:Getting very annoyed with Tories referring to no deal as Australian deal...0
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rick_chasey said:
This is not easy to read, and I'm not really sure what you're driving at.john80 said:
The problem with this logic is that if you extrapolate it up then it shows the weakness in running a country with just money leading the decisions. What percentage would be required to sell the inhabitants of that country down the river. What if China said in 2025 when they might be the leading economy in the world that we cannot trade with them unless we sign up to a one way extradition process where having a flag was enough to get deported and put in the Ghulag. Maybe France want all the fishing rights so that some Southerners can keep selling financial products to this market. Maybe Nissan want the UK to have the four freedoms so that they don't have to pay import taxes or export taxes on goods. At what point does it not work within a democracy this money first obsession you have.rick_chasey said:Let's have a look at the fish vs FS scale.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06193/
2019 parliament report puts FS at 6.9% of UK GDP and 3.1% of all UK jobs (who knew, FS was high earning, eh?) That's £132bn to the economy per year and 1.1m jobs
(As an aside: 43% of financial services exports went to the EU and 34% of financial services imports came from the EU)
Anyway, fish. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf
two years older at 2017, so expect some marginal differences.
There were 4,000 businesses in the fishing industry in 2016. These businesses employed 24,000 people and contributed £1.4 billion (0.12% of the all UK economic output.) to the UK economy in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA – a measure similar to GDP, abeit flattering, as it's just 0.12% of the all UK economic output)
(For Scottish Indie's, just over half of these fishermen are in Scotland...)
So we're not that far off FS being two orders of magnitude more valuable than fishing.
Let me put my point in a different way. A lot more jobs are affected by screwing up FS than are affected by screwing up Fishing.
That may not be the *only* factor in deciding what to prioritise, but it is surely a bloody big one?
Looking on the bright side, Cod Wars 2 will be a welcome diversion in the news from all this stuff about some virus or other....0 -
The basic point is that a good democracy is often at odds with business for the greater good of the population. If this was not the case we would still have victoria employment practices. We would still have victorian environmental laws. The constant quest for a steady gdp increase is actually not that important to most people. Allowing your economy to rely on certain sectors is a fools errand.rick_chasey said:
This is not easy to read, and I'm not really sure what you're driving at.john80 said:
The problem with this logic is that if you extrapolate it up then it shows the weakness in running a country with just money leading the decisions. What percentage would be required to sell the inhabitants of that country down the river. What if China said in 2025 when they might be the leading economy in the world that we cannot trade with them unless we sign up to a one way extradition process where having a flag was enough to get deported and put in the Ghulag. Maybe France want all the fishing rights so that some Southerners can keep selling financial products to this market. Maybe Nissan want the UK to have the four freedoms so that they don't have to pay import taxes or export taxes on goods. At what point does it not work within a democracy this money first obsession you have.rick_chasey said:Let's have a look at the fish vs FS scale.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06193/
2019 parliament report puts FS at 6.9% of UK GDP and 3.1% of all UK jobs (who knew, FS was high earning, eh?) That's £132bn to the economy per year and 1.1m jobs
(As an aside: 43% of financial services exports went to the EU and 34% of financial services imports came from the EU)
Anyway, fish. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf
two years older at 2017, so expect some marginal differences.
There were 4,000 businesses in the fishing industry in 2016. These businesses employed 24,000 people and contributed £1.4 billion (0.12% of the all UK economic output.) to the UK economy in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA – a measure similar to GDP, abeit flattering, as it's just 0.12% of the all UK economic output)
(For Scottish Indie's, just over half of these fishermen are in Scotland...)
So we're not that far off FS being two orders of magnitude more valuable than fishing.
Let me put my point in a different way. A lot more jobs are affected by screwing up FS than are affected by screwing up Fishing.
That may not be the *only* factor in deciding what to prioritise, but it is surely a bloody big one?0 -
Bit late for that.john80 said:
The basic point is that a good democracy is often at odds with business for the greater good of the population. If this was not the case we would still have victoria employment practices. We would still have victorian environmental laws. The constant quest for a steady gdp increase is actually not that important to most people. Allowing your economy to rely on certain sectors is a fools errand.rick_chasey said:
This is not easy to read, and I'm not really sure what you're driving at.john80 said:
The problem with this logic is that if you extrapolate it up then it shows the weakness in running a country with just money leading the decisions. What percentage would be required to sell the inhabitants of that country down the river. What if China said in 2025 when they might be the leading economy in the world that we cannot trade with them unless we sign up to a one way extradition process where having a flag was enough to get deported and put in the Ghulag. Maybe France want all the fishing rights so that some Southerners can keep selling financial products to this market. Maybe Nissan want the UK to have the four freedoms so that they don't have to pay import taxes or export taxes on goods. At what point does it not work within a democracy this money first obsession you have.rick_chasey said:Let's have a look at the fish vs FS scale.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06193/
2019 parliament report puts FS at 6.9% of UK GDP and 3.1% of all UK jobs (who knew, FS was high earning, eh?) That's £132bn to the economy per year and 1.1m jobs
(As an aside: 43% of financial services exports went to the EU and 34% of financial services imports came from the EU)
Anyway, fish. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf
two years older at 2017, so expect some marginal differences.
There were 4,000 businesses in the fishing industry in 2016. These businesses employed 24,000 people and contributed £1.4 billion (0.12% of the all UK economic output.) to the UK economy in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA – a measure similar to GDP, abeit flattering, as it's just 0.12% of the all UK economic output)
(For Scottish Indie's, just over half of these fishermen are in Scotland...)
So we're not that far off FS being two orders of magnitude more valuable than fishing.
Let me put my point in a different way. A lot more jobs are affected by screwing up FS than are affected by screwing up Fishing.
That may not be the *only* factor in deciding what to prioritise, but it is surely a bloody big one?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Name me a period where GDP has dramatically fallen where there was no political upheaval as a result?john80 said:
The basic point is that a good democracy is often at odds with business for the greater good of the population. If this was not the case we would still have victoria employment practices. We would still have victorian environmental laws. The constant quest for a steady gdp increase is actually not that important to most people. Allowing your economy to rely on certain sectors is a fools errand.rick_chasey said:
This is not easy to read, and I'm not really sure what you're driving at.john80 said:
The problem with this logic is that if you extrapolate it up then it shows the weakness in running a country with just money leading the decisions. What percentage would be required to sell the inhabitants of that country down the river. What if China said in 2025 when they might be the leading economy in the world that we cannot trade with them unless we sign up to a one way extradition process where having a flag was enough to get deported and put in the Ghulag. Maybe France want all the fishing rights so that some Southerners can keep selling financial products to this market. Maybe Nissan want the UK to have the four freedoms so that they don't have to pay import taxes or export taxes on goods. At what point does it not work within a democracy this money first obsession you have.rick_chasey said:Let's have a look at the fish vs FS scale.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06193/
2019 parliament report puts FS at 6.9% of UK GDP and 3.1% of all UK jobs (who knew, FS was high earning, eh?) That's £132bn to the economy per year and 1.1m jobs
(As an aside: 43% of financial services exports went to the EU and 34% of financial services imports came from the EU)
Anyway, fish. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf
two years older at 2017, so expect some marginal differences.
There were 4,000 businesses in the fishing industry in 2016. These businesses employed 24,000 people and contributed £1.4 billion (0.12% of the all UK economic output.) to the UK economy in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA – a measure similar to GDP, abeit flattering, as it's just 0.12% of the all UK economic output)
(For Scottish Indie's, just over half of these fishermen are in Scotland...)
So we're not that far off FS being two orders of magnitude more valuable than fishing.
Let me put my point in a different way. A lot more jobs are affected by screwing up FS than are affected by screwing up Fishing.
That may not be the *only* factor in deciding what to prioritise, but it is surely a bloody big one?
I’ll go even further. Almost half of all democracies in the ‘30s failed and disappeared in Europe following the Great Depression, and a whole bunch of others were put under great strain.0 -
It is not about dramatic falls in gdp. Nobody wants that. It is about the type of gdp growth. Sure if it rises as we are more efficent then great. If it rises because we increase the population size and all work extra hours then it is not such a great success and the rise was actually detrimental to the normal person. Ecomonists often ask for 2% growth levels bit from a planet and people it is not sustainable if it is the later later type of growth above.rick_chasey said:
Name me a period where GDP has dramatically fallen where there was no political upheaval as a result?john80 said:
The basic point is that a good democracy is often at odds with business for the greater good of the population. If this was not the case we would still have victoria employment practices. We would still have victorian environmental laws. The constant quest for a steady gdp increase is actually not that important to most people. Allowing your economy to rely on certain sectors is a fools errand.rick_chasey said:
This is not easy to read, and I'm not really sure what you're driving at.john80 said:
The problem with this logic is that if you extrapolate it up then it shows the weakness in running a country with just money leading the decisions. What percentage would be required to sell the inhabitants of that country down the river. What if China said in 2025 when they might be the leading economy in the world that we cannot trade with them unless we sign up to a one way extradition process where having a flag was enough to get deported and put in the Ghulag. Maybe France want all the fishing rights so that some Southerners can keep selling financial products to this market. Maybe Nissan want the UK to have the four freedoms so that they don't have to pay import taxes or export taxes on goods. At what point does it not work within a democracy this money first obsession you have.rick_chasey said:Let's have a look at the fish vs FS scale.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06193/
2019 parliament report puts FS at 6.9% of UK GDP and 3.1% of all UK jobs (who knew, FS was high earning, eh?) That's £132bn to the economy per year and 1.1m jobs
(As an aside: 43% of financial services exports went to the EU and 34% of financial services imports came from the EU)
Anyway, fish. https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf
two years older at 2017, so expect some marginal differences.
There were 4,000 businesses in the fishing industry in 2016. These businesses employed 24,000 people and contributed £1.4 billion (0.12% of the all UK economic output.) to the UK economy in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA – a measure similar to GDP, abeit flattering, as it's just 0.12% of the all UK economic output)
(For Scottish Indie's, just over half of these fishermen are in Scotland...)
So we're not that far off FS being two orders of magnitude more valuable than fishing.
Let me put my point in a different way. A lot more jobs are affected by screwing up FS than are affected by screwing up Fishing.
That may not be the *only* factor in deciding what to prioritise, but it is surely a bloody big one?
I’ll go even further. Almost half of all democracies in the ‘30s failed and disappeared in Europe following the Great Depression, and a whole bunch of others were put under great strain.0
