Le Tour de Yorkshire ***Spoliers***

sagalout

Mad_Malx wrote:

inseine wrote:

I enjoyed it. Spectacular scenery (yes I'm a Yorkshireman, but you don't often see it from the air).
Great racing on the first day, the rest was ok. No race radios seem to help.
I watched cycle racing for 35 years and it's bloody brilliant that the country is catching on.

Agree very much (except being a Yorkshireman) and with Paul8v too.

Definate win for Yorkshire and big boost by being holiday weekend. Almost half England's population live within 50 miles or so of the route.

The best half too

RichN95.

It's been a resounding success. Everyone involved should be delighted.

Two changes I would make.

1. Team sizes. It was mentioned before the race that eight seems too much. Six would be better.

2. Why race on Friday instead of Bank Holiday Monday? How about adding an afternoon prologue TT (on road bikes) on Friday afternoon followed by Saturday-Monday

Also that final time bonus sprint was too close to the end. It killed the finale.

Lanterne_Rogue

RichN95 wrote:

It's been a resounding success. Everyone involved should be delighted.

Two changes I would make.

1. Team sizes. It was mentioned before the race that eight seems too much. Six would be better.

2. Why race on Friday instead of Bank Holiday Monday? How about adding an afternoon prologue TT (on road bikes) on Friday afternoon followed by Saturday-Monday

Also that final time bonus sprint was too close to the end. It killed the finale.

Following a comment elsewhere, I'm not sure the loop in York worked too well. A technical, twisting finale through the heart of the city might have encouraged a few more attacks in the final few kilometres and also produced more interesting images. The third stage might just have been too tough, in retrospect - nobody seemed to want to gamble.

Agree with running into the bank holiday to encourage crowds too - was surprised it didn't run Sat-Mon when they announced it, but presume it's a UCI calendar thing? Short Friday prologue in somewhere like Leeds or York, especially if it could be timed so that people were finishing work/school in time to catch at least some of it, would definitely add something to the experience - for riders and crowd alike.

RichN95.

underlayunderlay wrote:

Short Friday prologue in somewhere like Leeds or York, especially if it could be timed so that people were finishing work/school in time to catch at least some of it, would definitely add something to the experience - for riders and crowd alike.

A nice easy 2-3k course. First man off at 5pm. The big names at 7-7.30. The sprint stage on Saturday before the bumpier stages on Sunday & Monday.

RichN95.

Apparently Yorkshire now want to bring the Worlds to their green and pleasant land. Given Britain's now proven ability to provide big crowds, not having a Worlds before 2020 would be a disgrace.

I do think Cardiff should be the venue though.

bompington

underlayunderlay wrote:

I'm not sure the loop in York worked too well. A technical, twisting finale through the heart of the city might have encouraged a few more attacks in the final few kilometres and also produced more interesting images.

I would be worried that it might turn into a Shambles

ben@31

thegibdog wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

As for the crowds - its nice to see but largely down to this being a novelty plus there being several million too many people in the country.

You're welcome to leave any time you want...

You're right though, people were just stood at the side of the roads because the country is so crowded that there is simply nowhere else for them to stand.

Are you saying the Libyan immigrants sail over here just to watch our cycling? Them refugees must be well into their bikes.

mm1

Paul 8v wrote:

When I was a kid you were always an outcast if you liked cycling and not football because people were so ignorant of it. I can only hope events like this can bring it a bit more in to the mainstream. I know we will never be like Belgium but it is nice to have a bit more of an understanding in this country.

I know people complain about all the 'Mamils' in team sky jerseys riding about because of the massive popularity of cycling because of Wiggo's TDF win and the Olympics but it's one more person who won't be pissed off with cyclists and abuse you when you're out. We also get better facilities, more events and more bike shops.

Winner :-)

100% agree. At school (West London comp, 1970's) loads cycled, but there were only 4 of us who were into cycling of whom 2 tried a clubrun and only 1 (me) joined a club. Maybe 40 years later some more of my school mates have discovered the bike, but it's still a long way to go to become mainstream. Seeing cyclists interviewed on breakfast tv and live race coverage is astonishing. I hope that its not just the novelty factor bringing out the crowds, but they seemed, as far as one can tell from watching tv, enthusiastic and knowledgeable and I thought that the obvious encouragement of all the riders was a refreshing contrast to our usual partisan sporting culture.

The sport has attracted bigs crowds in the past (with no mainstream media coverage) and I hope this will become a lasting passion, rather than a passing fad.

Friday was the most interesting day, but with the strongest team holding the lead the rest of the race was bound to become defensive. Adding a TT would not have changed this (a prologue may well have locked the race down from the start). Maybe slightly shorter days would make for more exciting racing?

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

It's been a resounding success. Everyone involved should be delighted.

Two changes I would make.

1. Team sizes. It was mentioned before the race that eight seems too much. Six would be better.

2. Why race on Friday instead of Bank Holiday Monday? How about adding an afternoon prologue TT (on road bikes) on Friday afternoon followed by Saturday-Monday

Also that final time bonus sprint was too close to the end. It killed the finale.

With you on the first two, not sure I agree with the third. If the time bonus was earlier then it would all have been taken by the break. Yes that would mean nobody gambled on being able to take something there, but I don't think that would have changed much. Perhaps if they'd had radios then BMC and Europcar would have brought the break back earlier and made the bugger bonuses available? It was clear Sky hadn't realised how close the break were, and slows down when they realised they were in danger of catching them. Perhaps the others were similarly unaware?

At any rate, the option was still there to try and attack and gap Nordhaug, take the win bonus and the race. That's what they'd have had to do if the bonus was earlier and taken by the break. The single second he gained was important because it put his lead above the stage win bonus, but it wasn't exactly foreseeable it would play out that way when they designed the course. If none of them had got it, what then? A sprint for the stage and GC?

No_Ta_Doctor

Not wanting to feed this too much, but FF, I'm surprised at the vitriol toward a UCI 2.1 race, in its first ever edition, with an interesting parcours, superb support and what looks like very good arrangement. I'm not sure how you think it should be able to attract the very top level WT riders, particularly as there's a limit to how many WT teams can ride it. And it's on at the same time as Turkey and Romandie. If you were expecting a WT race then it's your expectations that were out of synch with reality, not the failing of the race.

FJS

Those crowds were amazing, right, for a 2.1 cat race. In hindsight the cringeworthy naming of the clims (cote de Chevin etc) was all part of making it a Tour de France legacy event and recreating the atmosphere of last year. I think that helped draw in the crowds, many of them not especially cycling fans. Even in densely populated Holland, Flanders or Northern Italy you don't get crowds like that for anything less than a TdF stage or monument.

I do agree that those crowds and the race deserve a better startlist, but for a 2.1 race this part of the year it was pretty good. Just compare with Asturias (http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Vue ... -startlist), Croatia (http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Tou ... -startlist), Madrid (http://procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=152880&c=3). The way forward is .HC status next year. It would even be a good British WT race. It would certainly be tons better as a WT race than Romandie, but I think the Romandie orgainser is particularly well-connected in the UCI, so that's not going to happen, at least not this weekend.

As far as the route is concerned, a selective route with a less selective finale produced some good racing on Friday but less so on Sunday. The bonus sprints influencing GC tactics didn't help. Perhaps a more selective Sunday stage finish, uphill or with a harder climb closer to the finish (like in Sheffield last year) would be good. Eneco and Poland show that a final day with loads of climbs can work and doesn't necessarily shut the race down.

disgruntledgoat

The first edition is where they're going to find their feet and you can't expect perfection straight away. We ahd one great stage, a sprint and an interesting tactical situation up to 10km from the finish on the final stage. I'm sure the organisers will reflect on what worked and what needs improvement.

To pan a race in a completely new location, in its first edition just seems churlish.

The_Boy

Not sure I agree that the route on the final day was the problem. If the break on stage 1 hadn't taken around two minutes that would have been an amazing day's racing. It made for a cracking afternoon even though nobody put in any attacks for GC.

Excellent job by the organisers though, and hats off to the people by the roadside. Great event, imo.

yourpaceormine

I agree with most of the sentiments expressed here: for a first edition it was great. Good course, great crowds and some good racing. What is not to like? Yes the TdF style names are cheesey, but if that is that is my biggest grumble they have pretty much got it right.
Crowds - I get the feeling that post Olympics the British public has realised that there is a lot more to sport than just football, that sport can be an 'event', something different to experience and be a part of. The Tour last year showed that, for stage 2 I was in Sheffield, brilliant to see young women in full hijab standing at the roadside waiting for a bike race. If you'd have suggested that 30 years ago you'd have been sectioned, you probably would if you had suggested more than 2 British riders on the start line too. Does it matter that a lot of the crowd aren't dyed in the wool cycling fans, no! But they might be in the future. Dave Millar got it spot on, advertisers will sit up and take note of this 'chipper little race', it is doing things right that some of the more established races can't. FF you should be applauding new races, rather than poopooing them. When we have lost races and teams due to lack of advertising and sponsorship the TdY organisers should be celebrated for providing cycling in general with their race.

Plus side, great to hear the crowd has moved on from the Cav and Wiggo double act, and if it provides a launching platform for our younger domestic based riders even better.

(How anyone can not be impressed by a small race that provided the finale of stage 1 is beyond me)

wallace_and_gromit

frenchfighter wrote:

As for Wiggins - well as I say, he is sh*t and a disgrace...Lol, good joke that, just about finished the race today.

Well better to be a Tour winning disgrace than the Forum Village Idiot is what I say. Each to their own, and you have made your choice and haven't won the Tour.

Anyway, I was at the top of Black Hill Road - the final major uphill bit - and Wiggo looked in fine fettle. He was in the second chase group around 3 or 4 minutes down and looked like he was soft-pedalling. The upper body was rock steady whilst those around were rocking, rolling and grinding. I suspect he finished the race OK!

The_Boy

Another thing I would add; compare this event with those held in the Gulf states or China. Cycling has experienced a boom in the UK, but it's had a long tradition in this country outside of the mainstream. There is a grass roots community and a small group of established stars. Events like this are the sort of thing that the UCI should be throwing its weight behind in its quest for globalisation.

The US races would fall into the same category, and arguably the TdU.

milton50

Can't be seen as anything other than a resounding success for a first year race. Hopefully it moves up to HC and it goes from strength to strength.

hammerite

It was a very successful race. No more or less exciting than many others.

If the racing was negative or boring then I guess the riders are to blame - but then without radios they may have had no idea what was going on. What I did think was interesting was Nicolas Edet's response when being caught by the group. He clearly had more riding in him and looked to be encouraging a chase especially as he was aware of the situation in front. There turned out to be 2-3 Cofidis riders in that group but they decided to do nothing or were too knackered to do anything.

napoleond

Milton50 wrote:

Can't be seen as anything other than a resounding success for a first year race. Hopefully it moves up to HC and it goes from strength to strength.

If it moves to world tour status it would be a shame as we then wouldn't have the British teams.

milton50

NapoleonD wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

Can't be seen as anything other than a resounding success for a first year race. Hopefully it moves up to HC and it goes from strength to strength.

If it moves to world tour status it would be a shame as we then wouldn't have the British teams.

It's a shame, but having the best cyclists in the world here every year with decent media coverage will be better for British cycling in the long run.

The_Boy

hammerite wrote:

It was a very successful race. No more or less exciting than many others.

If the racing was negative or boring then I guess the riders are to blame - but then without radios they may have had no idea what was going on. What I did think was interesting was Nicolas Edet's response when being caught by the group. He clearly had more riding in him and looked to be encouraging a chase especially as he was aware of the situation in front. There turned out to be 2-3 Cofidis riders in that group but they decided to do nothing or were too knackered to do anything.

Looked to me like the plan all along was for Simon to try from a reduced group. Edet's one of those riders who seems to spend his entire career in doomed breakaways though, so maybe he genuinely fancied having another dig.

blazing_saddles

NapoleonD wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

Can't be seen as anything other than a resounding success for a first year race. Hopefully it moves up to HC and it goes from strength to strength.

If it moves to world tour status it would be a shame as we then wouldn't have the British teams.

Agreed.
I don't think we need to worry upon that. Realistically, I can't see it going beyond HC; probably as a 5 day event, no more.
Expectation beyond that level is a bit pie in the sky, after just one edition.
Besides, why, when it was so successful at a relatively low level, is it necessary to achieve WT status?
Imo, at HC level, a half a dozen WT teams sending decent rosters gives a better blend of riders than having all WT teams at more or less the same level. Races at this level offer lesser teams specific season goals and are essential for developing home talent.
Besides, it's not as if WT stages races guarantee "end to end" excitement. If anything, the opposite is true.

FJS

It could be an incentive for one or two UK domestic teams to move up to Proconti status.

awavey

yourpaceormine wrote:

I agree with most of the sentiments expressed here: for a first edition it was great. Good course, great crowds and some good racing. What is not to like? Yes the TdF style names are cheesey, but if that is that is my biggest grumble they have pretty much got it right.
Crowds - I get the feeling that post Olympics the British public has realised that there is a lot more to sport than just football, that sport can be an 'event', something different to experience and be a part of. The Tour last year showed that, for stage 2 I was in Sheffield, brilliant to see young women in full hijab standing at the roadside waiting for a bike race. If you'd have suggested that 30 years ago you'd have been sectioned, you probably would if you had suggested more than 2 British riders on the start line too. Does it matter that a lot of the crowd aren't dyed in the wool cycling fans, no!

but yet we know when the Tour series kicks off 10 days from now, you wont see crowds like that, or when the Tour of Britain rolls past we wont see crowds like that, so is it a British thing thats happening or a specific Yorkshire thing, that has always had far more of a cycling passion thing going on.

I mean from the tv coverage, ok its hard to tell properly as your whizzing past crowds of people,but they looked to be more dyed in the wool cycling fans on the route, there were lots of club kit cyclists I noticed, whereas the TdF in Yorkshire (again dont forget Cambridge to London looked a lot different last year) was definitely more like just everyone turned up.

it will be interesting to see if it keeps up,

ozzzyosborn206

regarding the way the race was ridden, had kittle been in better shape and swift not crashed out it would have been very different, always hard to change tactics when you loose a team leader, sky managed to still win that said. Was surprised by BMC expected them to feature more, maybe the route wasn't what they expected i imagine unless you had ridden round those parts before it was harder than they expected. Also being between classics and GTs riders will be at the end of a block or just starting to build up but for a first edition it was good, I am sure riders will have enjoyed the atmosphere and will want to come back in better condition, it is always nicer to win when there is a crowd regardless of the level of race

Pross

awavey wrote:

yourpaceormine wrote:

I agree with most of the sentiments expressed here: for a first edition it was great. Good course, great crowds and some good racing. What is not to like? Yes the TdF style names are cheesey, but if that is that is my biggest grumble they have pretty much got it right.
Crowds - I get the feeling that post Olympics the British public has realised that there is a lot more to sport than just football, that sport can be an 'event', something different to experience and be a part of. The Tour last year showed that, for stage 2 I was in Sheffield, brilliant to see young women in full hijab standing at the roadside waiting for a bike race. If you'd have suggested that 30 years ago you'd have been sectioned, you probably would if you had suggested more than 2 British riders on the start line too. Does it matter that a lot of the crowd aren't dyed in the wool cycling fans, no!

but yet we know when the Tour series kicks off 10 days from now, you wont see crowds like that, or when the Tour of Britain rolls past we wont see crowds like that, so is it a British thing thats happening or a specific Yorkshire thing, that has always had far more of a cycling passion thing going on.

I mean from the tv coverage, ok its hard to tell properly as your whizzing past crowds of people,but they looked to be more dyed in the wool cycling fans on the route, there were lots of club kit cyclists I noticed, whereas the TdF in Yorkshire (again dont forget Cambridge to London looked a lot different last year) was definitely more like just everyone turned up.

it will be interesting to see if it keeps up,

The Tour Series gets very good crowds for what is essentially the equivalent to a non-league football match. The ToB has had similar crowds to that on many of the main climbs for a few years now. Take a look at the footage of the 2013 Dartmoor stage finish or mid week stages on Caerphilly mountain. As for Cambridge to London in last year's TdF the crowds were absolutely enormous for a pan flat stage. Crowds will always look bigger on climbs as they give a focal point for people to converge on but I can't recall a flat TdF stage with bigger crowds than Stage 3 last year other than the final stage or if there is pave.

tim000

Pross wrote:

awavey wrote:

yourpaceormine wrote:

I agree with most of the sentiments expressed here: for a first edition it was great. Good course, great crowds and some good racing. What is not to like? Yes the TdF style names are cheesey, but if that is that is my biggest grumble they have pretty much got it right.
Crowds - I get the feeling that post Olympics the British public has realised that there is a lot more to sport than just football, that sport can be an 'event', something different to experience and be a part of. The Tour last year showed that, for stage 2 I was in Sheffield, brilliant to see young women in full hijab standing at the roadside waiting for a bike race. If you'd have suggested that 30 years ago you'd have been sectioned, you probably would if you had suggested more than 2 British riders on the start line too. Does it matter that a lot of the crowd aren't dyed in the wool cycling fans, no!

but yet we know when the Tour series kicks off 10 days from now, you wont see crowds like that, or when the Tour of Britain rolls past we wont see crowds like that, so is it a British thing thats happening or a specific Yorkshire thing, that has always had far more of a cycling passion thing going on.

I mean from the tv coverage, ok its hard to tell properly as your whizzing past crowds of people,but they looked to be more dyed in the wool cycling fans on the route, there were lots of club kit cyclists I noticed, whereas the TdF in Yorkshire (again dont forget Cambridge to London looked a lot different last year) was definitely more like just everyone turned up.

it will be interesting to see if it keeps up,

The Tour Series gets very good crowds for what is essentially the equivalent to a non-league football match. The ToB has had similar crowds to that on many of the main climbs for a few years now. Take a look at the footage of the 2013 Dartmoor stage finish or mid week stages on Caerphilly mountain. As for Cambridge to London in last year's TdF the crowds were absolutely enormous for a pan flat stage. Crowds will always look bigger on climbs as they give a focal point for people to converge on but I can't recall a flat TdF stage with bigger crowds than Stage 3 last year other than the final stage or if there is pave.

I was one the chevin climb yesterday and the Liverpool stage in the tour of Britain last year and pretty similar . if anything I would say the TOB was bigger.

Ashbeck

tim000 wrote:

Pross wrote:

awavey wrote:

yourpaceormine wrote:

I agree with most of the sentiments expressed here: for a first edition it was great. Good course, great crowds and some good racing. What is not to like? Yes the TdF style names are cheesey, but if that is that is my biggest grumble they have pretty much got it right.
Crowds - I get the feeling that post Olympics the British public has realised that there is a lot more to sport than just football, that sport can be an 'event', something different to experience and be a part of. The Tour last year showed that, for stage 2 I was in Sheffield, brilliant to see young women in full hijab standing at the roadside waiting for a bike race. If you'd have suggested that 30 years ago you'd have been sectioned, you probably would if you had suggested more than 2 British riders on the start line too. Does it matter that a lot of the crowd aren't dyed in the wool cycling fans, no!

but yet we know when the Tour series kicks off 10 days from now, you wont see crowds like that, or when the Tour of Britain rolls past we wont see crowds like that, so is it a British thing thats happening or a specific Yorkshire thing, that has always had far more of a cycling passion thing going on.

I mean from the tv coverage, ok its hard to tell properly as your whizzing past crowds of people,but they looked to be more dyed in the wool cycling fans on the route, there were lots of club kit cyclists I noticed, whereas the TdF in Yorkshire (again dont forget Cambridge to London looked a lot different last year) was definitely more like just everyone turned up.

it will be interesting to see if it keeps up,

The Tour Series gets very good crowds for what is essentially the equivalent to a non-league football match. The ToB has had similar crowds to that on many of the main climbs for a few years now. Take a look at the footage of the 2013 Dartmoor stage finish or mid week stages on Caerphilly mountain. As for Cambridge to London in last year's TdF the crowds were absolutely enormous for a pan flat stage. Crowds will always look bigger on climbs as they give a focal point for people to converge on but I can't recall a flat TdF stage with bigger crowds than Stage 3 last year other than the final stage or if there is pave.

I was one the chevin climb yesterday and the Liverpool stage in the tour of Britain last year and pretty similar . if anything I would say the TOB was bigger.

Disagree, I live in Essex and the Stage 3 from Cambridge right into London was simply mindblowing when it came to spectators, especially in the Essex countryside. I often ride the same roads as used last year and the stretch from the top of Epping all the way down past Theydon Bois, Buckhurst Hill and Woodford into London was one long row of spectators ten deep for 10 miles, and that bit wasnt even shown on TV due to adverts.
The bit before it in the Essex countryside was even more packed out than that. Epping High road still bears the scars of miles of grafitti painted on the road.

tim000

sorry , I was comparing this weekend to the TOB

ozzzyosborn206

Be interesting if wiggins does do a Tour series round what the crowds will be like there, i'm guessing they will be increased a fair wack