Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

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  • bobonesbobones Posts: 973
    I'm thinking of building a set of 20F/24R Miche Primato on DT R460 with Lasers front and NDS and D-light DS as inexpensive, but light(ish) (under psychological 1600 g barrier!) all weather wheels. Would the lack of spokes and their lightweight nature cause a problem for average riders under say 75 kg?
  • Depends how you ride. With that rim 24f/28r is alot stiffer and more reliable. They wont feel heavier.

    Remember how a wheel responds to load is mostly what you feel unless tour comparing a 2000kg wheelset witha 1500g wheelset of similar stiffness.

    So 8 more spokes wing maje the wheel feel heavier.
  • bobonesbobones Posts: 973
    I hear you, but 24F/28R is going to weigh 1650 g with brass nipples and cost me around £180 with the Sapim spokes, so if I'm not caring about weight, I may as well use ACI spokes and save £25 as these should turn out just shy of 1700 g.

    On the other hand, 20F/24H should built up to around 1560 g with alu nipples or 1595 g with brass, which in my mind is a fairly light wheel, and compares very favourably with most factory wheels in that price bracket.

    I know we're only talking about 140 g, but the perceived difference between 1560 g and 1700 g is massive in the eyes of your average wheel buying punter, and that kind of matters if I end up trying to sell them rather than keeping them for myself.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,878
    bobones said:



    I know we're only talking about 140 g, but the perceived difference between 1560 g and 1700 g is massive in the eyes of your average wheel buying punter, and that kind of matters if I end up trying to sell them rather than keeping them for myself.

    People buy handbuilt wheels for reliability, so you might actually have more luck selling a 24/28 than a 20/24 set.
    As an aside, buying something inadequate with the idea that it might have a better resale value than something more appropriate seems the wrong way to go about it

  • bobonesbobones Posts: 973
    But is it really "inadequate"? 20F/24R or less seems to be very common for highly regarded "bombproof" factory wheels, e.g. Fulcrum Racing 7s are 18F/20R, Shimano RS11s are 16F/20R, Mavic Aksium are 20/20. Or are these wheels all using much heavier, heavy duty spokes that aid their stiffness?

    I guess 20F/28R may be a sensible compromise? The 20H R460 rims are only £24.66 on Wiggle at the moment so this may be tainting my judgement somewhat. But, like I say, it's really only a silly psychological thing, where I think anything under 1600 g is light and anything over is heavy!

    I might just build the 20/24s to see how bad or otherwise they might be in reality.
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,412
    20h front should be fine for a rider of sub 75kg.

    I've ridden a 24 spoke r460 without any complaints, and I'm 120kg.

    Since you are getting all weight weenie, I'd also suggest switching to novatec a171/172 hubs which will save about 45g and have been fine in my experience.

    But yeah, 28 spoke rear probably a good idea, especially if you are using d-light/laser spokes.

    Or be quick and buy these rims - https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s116p4299/AMBROSIO-P20-20h-24h-Black

    24 rear should be fine with that rim profile.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,878
    Agree that 20 h front is fine and 28 rear is better...
    I use DT 460 and have 24 h front and 32 h rear... I am lighter than you, but I needed wheels for mileage... 13,000 miles later they have yet to see a spoke key (which is not true because the rear needed a new rim when the original wore out, but you get the gist)
  • bobonesbobones Posts: 973
    timothyw said:

    20h front should be fine for a rider of sub 75kg.

    I've ridden a 24 spoke r460 without any complaints, and I'm 120kg.

    Since you are getting all weight weenie, I'd also suggest switching to novatec a171/172 hubs which will save about 45g and have been fine in my experience.

    But yeah, 28 spoke rear probably a good idea, especially if you are using d-light/laser spokes.

    Or be quick and buy these rims - https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s116p4299/AMBROSIO-P20-20h-24h-Black

    24 rear should be fine with that rim profile.

    Just bought 2 x 20 and 2 x 24 :smiley: Brilliant Tim, thanks for the tip!

    I have built a few sets with those Novatec hubs or a variation (and same with Bitex), and I find the bearings only need a couple of soakings before they start to squeak and get rough. My current winter wheels are Open Pro UST on the Syntesi hubs with black lasers and D-lights and they're really nice and the bearings are lasting well. I do a fair few miles too in all weather (890 miles last month for example) so I'm looking for low maintenance as well as low weight and cheap!
  • sopworthsopworth Posts: 190
    A bit of hub buying advice please. I need a rear disc hub to complete my wheelset. I’ve built the front on a dt Swiss 350 hub but can’t afford the same for the rear hub. I think sub £100 is my best for the rear hub.
    Any advice of what to get?
    It’s for a Velocity major Tom tubular rim for a CX wheelset. I built the front 28h so will do the same for the rear I guess.
    Ideally, something that isn’t going to be too difficult to service after CX season.
    Thanks
  • bobones said:

    I'm thinking of building a set of 20F/24R Miche Primato on DT R460 with Lasers front and NDS and D-light DS as inexpensive, but light(ish) (under psychological 1600 g barrier!) all weather wheels. Would the lack of spokes and their lightweight nature cause a problem for average riders under say 75 kg?

    If you can punch it than this setup is not ideal.
    Either more spokes on the rear wheel or thicker spokes (Sapim Strong oder DT Alpine) ideally combined with bigger hub flanges.
    Against better knowledge I have built a similar wheelset. Rear wheel is made of Kinlin XR26T, Novatec F172sb and Sapim Race and Laser spokes.
    It is a lagging wheel, it just won't go.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,860
    If your determined to build a 24 spoke rear bobones you really need to use sapim race or DT comps. Thinner spokes wont give you enough lateral stiff for high mileage reliability (well thats not guaranteed but the chance of a failure is too much of a chance). Even a 28 rear will benefit from thicker spokes. dont fall into the trap of lighter is better. it isn't. If lighter is not stiff enough (torsional and lateral) then it feels sluggish. Front wheels are less sesistive to spoke count but when it comes to pot holes 4 extra spokes can help stop the wheel going out of shape.

    Sopworth. I have a number of Miche SWR DX hubs pairs in 28H drilling. You can have the pair for £100. I am clearing old stock. Otherwise Bitex BX106 or Novatec D792 are you other choices.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
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