Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

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  • wolfsbane2k
    wolfsbane2k Posts: 3,056
    Ok, back to "needing some new wheels"..

    Can someone recommend a parts list for a 700c 12x142mm through axle, non-tubeless for a rider, bike, and luggage getting on for 150kg

    Ta!
    Intent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
    Bike 1 (Broken) - Bike 2(Borked) - Bike 3(broken spokes) - Bike 4( Needs Work) - Bike 5 (in bits) - Bike 6* ...
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,324
    wolfsbane2k said:

    Ok, back to "needing some new wheels"..

    Can someone recommend a parts list for a 700c 12x142mm through axle, non-tubeless for a rider, bike, and luggage getting on for 150kg

    Ta!

    Hope RS4 CL hub, steel freehub 36 holes, Archetype rim, Sapim strong spokes... built 3 or 4 cross
    left the forum March 2023
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    edited November 2020
    Glad to see this thread is still going strong.

    I want to convert a set of Hunt 50mm Road Rims with worn braking surface to disc hub. Does it matter what type of hubs I use, straight pull or flanged? Any recommendations on where to look ?
    Should also mention, both are 24h

    Thanks
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,324
    kleinstroker said:

    Glad to see this thread is still going strong.

    I want to convert a set of Hunt 50mm Road Rims with worn braking surface to disc hub. Does it matter what type of hubs I use, straight pull or flanged? Any recommendations on where to look ?
    Should also mention, both are 24h

    Thanks

    Building on a straight pull hub without some sort of Jig to hold your rim and hub in place is not easy. Calculating spoke length is not easy either... for these reasons, I would go for a traditional drilled hub
    left the forum March 2023
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Maybe I should have said, but I'm not confident enough to try myself on deep carbon rims, so probably LBS would do the building.
    Are Pacenti hubs any good as traditional, using j type spokes?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,324
    They are just rebadged Bitex hubs, so I'd say yes
    left the forum March 2023
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Cheers Ugo!
  • paulbnix
    paulbnix Posts: 632
    I have just bought some DT Swiss RR 411 rims to build onto Novatec hubs.

    As you can see from the picture the rim is asymmetric.
    I am waiting until both hubs and rims arrive before ordering the spokes.
    I use the Wheelpro calculator https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/

    This is my first build with an asymmetric rim so I am checking what values I put into the "ASYM" and "Width between holes" fields in the spoke length calculator.

    I haven't found any DT Swiss documentation that specifies the ASYM value.
  • paulbnix
    paulbnix Posts: 632
    Answering my own question I think I just need to measure the distance between the two vertical dashed lines and that is the ASYM value with the "Width between holes" set to zero.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,324
    Don't overthink it... the difference is going to be < 1 mm. What I do is round the decimal up for the drive side and round down for the non drive side.
    If it is a front disc wheel, then round up the disc side and round down the non disc side
    left the forum March 2023
  • paulbnix
    paulbnix Posts: 632
    ugo.santalucia said:

    Don't overthink it... the difference is going to be < 1 mm. What I do is round the decimal up for the drive side and round down for the non drive side.
    If it is a front disc wheel, then round up the disc side and round down the non disc side

    I think you are right. I estimated the ASYM at 2.5mm and that gave <1mm difference in spoke lengths. I'm happy now - just waiting for the bits to arrive :-)
  • wotnoshoeseh
    wotnoshoeseh Posts: 531
    OK - In market for new handbuilt wheels (rim brake)....

    Thinking of Hope hubs RS4 or DT Swiss 350, with Shimano free hub, 28/32 build, most likely 3x front and rear, but have a preference for the Hope one.
    Unsure as to what rim to get.
    Thinking of the following options....
    Archetype
    DT Swiss R460
    Velocity A23
    Kinlin XR22

    Would also like recommendations on spoke please...

    Not fussed on having tubeless compatibility as I think it compromises tyre fit if tubed tyres are used.

    Would appreciate all thoughts.
  • thecycleclinic
    thecycleclinic Posts: 395
    Archetypes are not tubeless compatible.

    Dt r460 is meant to be tubeless but isn't just look at it internal profile.

    Xr22t is tubeless compatible but good for tubed tyres of tubeless tape is used. It also the best rim of the three.

    Velocity a23 why. I use them in 650c size because they are available in that size on lower drillings but thats the only reason.

    Hubs

    Hope are fine. Dt swiss 350 are fine in higher spoke counts.

    Miche hubs hare alot cheaper and quite reliable.

    I am moving forward in the new year with conventional drilling version of my rim brake hub which out specs hope and dt swiss efforts.

    Look past brand names. Dt swiss rim brake hubs have but one flaw, the short nds flange to centre of spacing. Hope hubs have one flaw they use a 2 pawl freehub. Why not 4 like they used to be. Oh to reduce drag, pathetic that.
    www.thecycleclinic.co.uk
  • dangardner27
    dangardner27 Posts: 118
    If you aren't fussed about tubeless (I've had some interesting experiences with tubeless tyres and think they are a faff for road use) then go with the Archetypes all day long in that spoke count.

    Malcolm built me Archetypes on Ultegra hubs and they are my favourite wheelset for general riding / training - I'm 95kg. I also have a summer set on Royce hubs and they are lovely and most importantly to me completely reliable.

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,324
    Yes, Archetype are still excellent rims if you are happy with clinchers.

    As DT 460, they might not be formally tubeless, or UST or whatever, but I, as well as others, have used them tubeless for years with no issues at all
    left the forum March 2023
  • dangardner27
    dangardner27 Posts: 118
    If you want Tubeless, then the A Force AL33's I have are tremendous too.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,324
    dangardner27 said:

    If you want Tubeless, then the A Force AL33's I have are tremendous too.

    They better be, since they cost the same as carbon rims
    left the forum March 2023
  • thecycleclinic
    thecycleclinic Posts: 395
    ugo.santalucia said:

    dangardner27 said:

    If you want Tubeless, then the A Force AL33's I have are tremendous too.

    They better be, since they cost the same as carbon rims
    Build with one finally and well it does not seem any rounder, flatter or better tubeless compatability than the kinlin xr31t. Looks nice though.
    www.thecycleclinic.co.uk
  • thecycleclinic
    thecycleclinic Posts: 395
    ugo.santalucia said:

    Yes, Archetype are still excellent rims if you are happy with clinchers.

    As DT 460, they might not be formally tubeless, or UST or whatever, but I, as well as others, have used them tubeless for years with no issues at all

    You can use the archetype with tubeless tyres if you really want too. The fact you can still mount tyres to the r460 with rim strips tells you a tubeless tyre is going to require compressed air or a few layers of tape to inflate. So yes you can set them up tubeless but the tyre can also unseat when flat and at that point why not fit a tube which is what you have done in the end. Part of the reason perhaps is wanting to fit to be as easy as with tubes which is mot possible with tubeless. The fit will aways be tighter and the rim tyre combo have tight tolerances for the fit to be a good one. Ensuring that and general tubeless maintenence is what makes some think its not worth it. I think it rims like the r460 that make the tyre fitting to easy thats the problem that easy tyre fit stores problems down the line which make it all faff and cause people to give up. Hense i call it a non tubeless rim. Does that make sense.
    www.thecycleclinic.co.uk
  • wotnoshoeseh
    wotnoshoeseh Posts: 531
    edited December 2020
    Thanks all.
    What I'm taking from this is....
    1. Tubeless compatible rims will almost always be more problematic (tighter fit) for tyres and tubes. Hence if out on the road and you suffer a puncture, getting the tube changed at the roadside will be more difficult.
    2. If I am not wanting to go tubeless compatible for the above reason, the H+ SON Archetype is as good a rim as is on the market.
    3. Now I just need to decide on hubs.
    Thanks.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,324
    thecycleclinic said:

    Does that make sense.

    Broadly yes...

    The reason I gave up on tubeless wasn't about the fit though... I gave up because they were and still are very expensive, rarely on offer and they didn't really offer any meaningful advantage over clinchers, for which there was (and still is) much more choice.
    Also, and probably more importantly, I like to change tyres depending on season and occasionally on intended use, which is incompatible with tubeless. Once you have mounted a tubeless tyre, you won't remove it until it needs replacing. I am known to swap tyres depending on weather forecast in summer. To do that with tubeless, I'd need several sets of wheels
    left the forum March 2023
  • wotnoshoeseh
    wotnoshoeseh Posts: 531
    edited December 2020
    ugo.santalucia said:

    The reason I gave up on tubeless wasn't about the fit though... I gave up because they were and still are very expensive, rarely on offer and they didn't really offer any meaningful advantage over clinchers, for which there was (and still is) much more choice.

    Agree with this. I don't really see the advantage and have ridden with both.

    For the reasons that I gave, up above re. changing tyres at the roadside, I will continue to persevere with the tubeless set ups on the Ksyrium UST wheels, but ideally I'd probably prefer to have tubed clinchers (hence my direction for hand built wheels).

  • wotnoshoeseh
    wotnoshoeseh Posts: 531
    All
    Thinking of buying a spoke tensiometer. Is the park tool one worth the extra cost over something like the chain reaction/wiggle X tools one?
  • paul_the_pedaller
    paul_the_pedaller Posts: 135
    I bought the Park Tools one, and after reading up about it it seems that opinion is that in the lower price range they're much of a muchness and useful to ensure that tensions are even and for rears that the NDS is correct compared to the DS, as shown on the Wheelpro calculator. It seems that they need calibrating as they can be way off if you're relying on them for absolute tension measurement.
    Having said that I bought the CRC Pro wheelstand and it's fine, no need IMO to spend a lot more on the Park as long as you've got a dishing stick.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,324
    wotnoshoeseh said:

    All
    Thinking of buying a spoke tensiometer. Is the park tool one worth the extra cost over something like the chain reaction/wiggle X tools one?

    They are probably the same thing. Calibration on the Park tool one is flaky anyway
    left the forum March 2023
  • paulbnix
    paulbnix Posts: 632
    I know it’s not the same thing but I use the Spoke Tension Gauge by Pepelko.
    It’s an app that runs on iPads and iPhones and costs £4.99.
    I’ve successfully built half a dozen wheel sets with it.
  • ck101
    ck101 Posts: 222
    I’ve acquired a nice set of NOS wheels, Chris King, Pacenti SL23 w 20/24 cross.

    Bought in haste & I should have thought of the spoke count as I generally ride 24/28. I don’t race and was hoping to use them as good weather / Sunday wheels. I’m 87kg have a few bikes and will cover 3000 km per year on these.

    Will I be ok with this build?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,324
    ck101 said:

    I’ve acquired a nice set of NOS wheels, Chris King, Pacenti SL23 w 20/24 cross.

    Bought in haste & I should have thought of the spoke count as I generally ride 24/28. I don’t race and was hoping to use them as good weather / Sunday wheels. I’m 87kg have a few bikes and will cover 3000 km per year on these.

    Will I be ok with this build?

    Any idea of the spokes?
    Your mileage is fairly low, so they should last a fair bit if they are not too underbuilt in terms of spokes
    left the forum March 2023
  • paul_the_pedaller
    paul_the_pedaller Posts: 135
    ck101 said:

    I’ve acquired a nice set of NOS wheels, Chris King, Pacenti SL23 w 20/24 cross.

    Bought in haste & I should have thought of the spoke count as I generally ride 24/28. I don’t race and was hoping to use them as good weather / Sunday wheels. I’m 87kg have a few bikes and will cover 3000 km per year on these.

    Will I be ok with this build?

    I had a Google to look at the rims out of interest and this popped up. Don't know if yours are in this date range but the rims appear to be prone to cracking.

    https://pacenticycledesign.co.uk/pages/rim-amnesty
  • wotnoshoeseh
    wotnoshoeseh Posts: 531
    wotnoshoeseh said:

    OK - In market for new handbuilt wheels (rim brake)....

    Thinking of Hope hubs RS4 or DT Swiss 350, with Shimano free hub, 28/32 build, most likely 3x front and rear, but have a preference for the Hope one.
    Unsure as to what rim to get.
    Thinking of the following options....
    Archetype
    DT Swiss R460
    Velocity A23
    Kinlin XR22

    Would also like recommendations on spoke please...

    Not fussed on having tubeless compatibility as I think it compromises tyre fit if tubed tyres are used.

    I am about to get moving on this set, but rim availability is quite poor at present. I did see Ambrosio P20 rims - Spa have them on offer too :o , but are they any good?
    A pair is roughly half the price of one Archetype, so are they worth it? :*

    Also there's not that many hubs around so I was considering the Novatec A171/F172 combination - those plus the appropriate Sapim Race spokes, laced 3x, would be what I would be looking at.

    This would be a first build for me, so I'd like some input on the compatibility and quality of the components, for ease of build etc.

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