Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

cycleclinic

not for non uci events. Pretty much everything in the U.K is non uci. No one check no one cares.

paul2718

Strictly, all BC racing is UCI, but in practice I guess no one cares. It's a daft rule.

Good luck with the project!

Paul

antfly

Message to Malcolm Borg of thecycleclinic,

Do you respond to questions on your e-bay site, if so please could you answer mine from October 8th ? Ta.

Alex99

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Milton81 wrote:

personally I think these days off the shelf wheels are a better and much easier option. There are hundreds of manufactures, lower prices, warranty etc... etc..

Great, except this is a thread specifically about building wheels and hand built wheels

Yeah but cars are much better than bikes these days. Faster, more comfortable, cup holders, stereos... I could go on.

halvis

With the wide variety of rims out there now, I think the idea of building a handbuilt wheel to your exact specification is very compelling.

I have really only ever had hand-built wheels and was very impressed with H Plus Son rims I had a few years ago.

I now run Open Pro's which are lighter but didn't build with the same stiffness as the H Plus Son - Archetype. The wide profile also made a more comfortable wheel when paired with 25mm tyres.

Maintenance is the real benefit of hand-builts though.

cycleclinic

what message I reply to everything I see. I also get twelfty a day so by now it will not be possible to find it if its there.

antfly

Oh well, my message must have slipped through the net somehow. Anyway, It was just about buying a quantity of red veloplugs (I didn't want 72 which was the only option) but I see now that they are available on your website in all quantities anyway.

Alex99

Hi all,
just about to build some wheels. I know that the normal thing to is have the spokes from the left flange go to the left-offset rim holes, and right to right. But why? Wouldn't going left flange to right hole and vice-versa give a better bracing angle? suppose it could be that the holes are angled in the rim bed... dunno

cycleclinic

it's the latter reason. a criss cross lacing rim to improve bracing angles is trick that no rim manufacturer uses except for velocity with the cliff hanger and that new AL33 rim.

It is an obvious solution now that rims are wider.

Alex99

thecycleclinic wrote:

it's the latter reason. a criss cross lacing rim to improve bracing angles is trick that no rim manufacturer uses except for velocity with the cliff hanger and that new AL33 rim.

It is an obvious solution now that rims are wider.

Seems like a no brainer. I do wonder whether manufacturers really go through the extra complication of angling the spoke eyelets with the accuracy for it to be a factor.

jimwalsh

thecycleclinic wrote:

Well I can put it this Jimwalsh. A elite team next year is using my carbon tubeless wheels with tubeless tyres. They dont think there is a problem. I dont either. Been racing on tubeless all year but that has been around east anglia which is hardly mountain country.

To get the sealant to boil you would have to get carbon rims past the Tg of the resins probably at which point you have other problems.

cheers I am looking for a tt wheel so braking not so much of an issue.

have sent you an email.

hazy_day

Looking at two sets of wheels for a Genesis Equilibrium build. One has 32 spokes either Ultegra or Dura Ace hubs on Mavic Open Pros. The other is 36 spokes on Mavic CXP Pro. The attractive thing about either wheelset is that I can't buy the parts and get the wheels built for what they are being sold at. I suppose my main question is a 36 spoke wheel overkill? Taking the type of cycling I do (mainly long solo spins being north of 60 in age) I would still have a decent set of hubs to rebuild at a later stage. I know I could get wider rims but I plan on using 25 or 28mm tyres.

ugo.santalucia

hazy day wrote:

Looking at two sets of wheels for a Genesis Equilibrium build. One has 32 spokes either Ultegra or Dura Ace hubs on Mavic Open Pros. The other is 36 spokes on Mavic CXP Pro. The attractive thing about either wheelset is that I can't buy the parts and get the wheels built for what they are being sold at. I suppose my main question is a 36 spoke wheel overkill? Taking the type of cycling I do (mainly long solo spins being north of 60 in age) I would still have a decent set of hubs to rebuild at a later stage. I know I could get wider rims but I plan on using 25 or 28mm tyres.

8 spokes weigh 64 grams and probably have another gram of aerodynamic drag...

You can have a haircut and lower your stem by 1/3 of a millimeter to counter balance

enjoy

hazy_day

Thanks Ugo but I'm afraid that getting a haircut for me would contribute very little to weight loss.Are the Dura Ace hubs worth the extra cash?

ugo.santalucia

hazy day wrote:

Thanks Ugo but I'm afraid that getting a haircut for me would contribute very little to weight loss.Are the Dura Ace hubs worth the extra cash?

Depends... the 6800 Ultegra are very good, almost Dura Ace good, but the older versions were a bit agricultural compared to the corresponding Dura Ace

hazy_day

Thanks,they are 6800 on CXP pro rims.

rnath

Aimed at the wheel builders here...

The Mavic Open Pro rims on my single speed wheels are past their sell by date and need replacing. The hubs use cartridge bearings and have been completely reliable since they were originally built. Is there any advantage to getting a completely new set of replacement wheels, or just replace the rims (I'm looking at Archetypes) and spokes and pop new bearings into the hubs? Thanks...

ugo.santalucia

rnath wrote:

Aimed at the wheel builders here...

The Mavic Open Pro rims on my single speed wheels are past their sell by date and need replacing. The hubs use cartridge bearings and have been completely reliable since they were originally built. Is there any advantage to getting a completely new set of replacement wheels, or just replace the rims (I'm looking at Archetypes) and spokes and pop new bearings into the hubs? Thanks...

If you replace them with Velocity A 23, you can keep the spokes too... with Archetype you need new spokes. I guess it depends how much the hubs are. For decent hubs it's always worth re-rimming

cycleclinic

6800 hubs are just fine. The cxp rim is a stiffer rim than the open pro so go for that on the ultegra hubs.

Rebuild the wheels single speed hubs are easily serviced and will do very high miles before something goes wrong like hub shell distortion or a flange cracking.

Alex99

Alex99 wrote:
Hi all,

planning a re-build of wheels on my chunky town bike due to rim wear and a couple of rear NDS spoke failures.

Currently:
Nameless wide silver alloy rims
Shimano Inter-3 hub in rear
Nameless silver solid axle front hub
Spokes: plain gauge zinc galvanized

i.e. cheapo build for pottering around town.

I want the new build to be low maintenance and good value.

My question is about spoke choice for the rear. I'm keeping the Inter-3 hub. The spoke hole diameter is reported to be 2.8 mm. Should I aim to get a spoke with as close as possible to that diameter at the shoulder? Will that offer any practical advantage over e.g. 2 mm plain gauge stainless spokes?

Also, the Inter-3 hub looks like it has thin flanges. Should I use spoke washers in the new build? For information, the two spoke failures that I have had were at the shoulder.

Cheers

ugo.santalucia wrote:
Finally an interesting project! There is some benefit in matching wide holes with wide spoke J bends, the widest and by far the best are DT Swiss Alpine 3... they are quite cheap in Germany from Rose bikes. Generally speaking there is no benefit in using plain gauge over double or triple butted, but if you are short of cash, plain gauge will do. Washers are always a good idea, but they are incredibly expensive for what they are. The retail price should be 10 pounds per kg of them, while they cost 35 pounds for 20 grams of them, so up to you to decide whether the build deserves them. They don't mate with wide J bends, so not with the Alpine 3 spokes, for instance.

thecycleclinic wrote:

Dont use galvanised spokes. They will rust. the surface pitting decrease the service life of the spoke but accelerating fatigue. Stainless spokes like the apline III are a good bet. sapim strong single butted is your other choice and if you a strong spoke then that is the one to go for.

Well, I have finally built this rear wheel. I used Sapim Strong spokes (strugled to find Alpine III in the right length) and Exal ZX19 rims in the end. The flanges on the Nexus 3 hub are very thin, so I used two M2.5 brass washers on each spoke head. M2 washers just squeeze onto the heads of the Sapim Strong too, but the M2.5 seemed to be a better fit and I needed to take up about 1 mm. The build was pretty uneventful taking about 2 hours total. I didn't need to do vertical truing at any point and it was only about 3 mm laterally out before I did any truing. Tension estimeasured with Park tool and feel. Near enough no dish needed. I hope they last a long time.

Costs:
Hub - £0 (re-used)
Rim - £18 (Spa)
Spokes - £19.80 (Spa)
Washers - £1.50 (eBay)
Rim tape - £2 (Spa)
Total = £41.30

thiscocks

These look pretty good value: http://primebikecomponents.com/about/

Tempted with one of the alu rim ones

Alex99

thiscocks wrote:

These look pretty good value: http://primebikecomponents.com/about/

Tempted with one of the alu rim ones

Meaty looking brake track on the Competition alloy rim.

Bordersroadie

I'm planning a pair of budget wheels for hilly TTs/hillclimbs. Also to be used for flatter TTs, I can't afford proper deep section wheels.

Rims will be Kinlin 300 or 380 (given my low budget/deepish rim criteria, are H PLus Son SL-42 a better choice than the Kinlin 380, I realise they're heavier?), hubs Novatec or Miche. Preference for 20/24 (I'm 70kg).

I'm tempted by the light weight of the Novatec 291/482 but the bearings are small and possibly not robust enough. Novatec 171/172 would have to be 24/24 but look to have bigger bearings. Miche seem to be the sensible choice for Scottish weather from what I've heard and I see the new model comes in 20/24 but they're a fair bit heavier.

Will CX-Rays be okay for the front wheel on all of these hub choices?

ugo.santalucia

There is more to aerodynamics than a deep rim and the SL 42 is not an aerodynamic rim. I suggest you look at chinese imports or something from FLO

thiscocks

Alex99 wrote:

thiscocks wrote:

These look pretty good value: http://primebikecomponents.com/about/

Tempted with one of the alu rim ones

Meaty looking brake track on the Competition alloy rim.

Yes probably a decent winter wheel

Gazzetta67

Hi Ugo or wheel expert.:)

You seem to be the man to ask about wheels. I currently use Ambrosio excellence rims on miche primato 36 hole hubs and Michelin 25mm tyres. Now I would like to try bigger 28mm tyres on these new wide rims. I found on Mavics website there is a touring rim (23mm) wide that's bomb proof they say but it's only a 32 hole rim. Here is my question. Do you think a 32 hole rim will be strong enough for my size and weight. I'm 1m 90 tall (6ft4) and weigh 100kg. The bike will be used for winter riding on heavy Scottish roads. Cheers.

ugo.santalucia

Gazzetta67 wrote:

Hi Ugo or wheel expert.:)

You seem to be the man to ask about wheels. I currently use Ambrosio excellence rims on miche primato 36 hole hubs and Michelin 25mm tyres. Now I would like to try bigger 28mm tyres on these new wide rims. I found on Mavics website there is a touring rim (23mm) wide that's bomb proof they say but it's only a 32 hole rim. Here is my question. Do you think a 32 hole rim will be strong enough for my size and weight. I'm 1m 90 tall (6ft4) and weigh 100kg. The bike will be used for winter riding on heavy Scottish roads. Cheers.

Yes, 32 is plenty if you use the right spokes. Why not archetype?

Gazzetta67

He's a Mavic dealer and has built most of my wheels. - I'm sure it's Sapim or DT Swiss spokes he uses ? - will I notice much difference from a 25 to a 28mm tyre ? . Yes I know it will be a bit slower/heavier. Can you recommend a good tyre for cold icy conditions.

ugo.santalucia

Gazzetta67 wrote:

He's a Mavic dealer and has built most of my wheels. - I'm sure it's Sapim or DT Swiss spokes he uses ? - will I notice much difference from a 25 to a 28mm tyre ? . Yes I know it will be a bit slower/heavier. Can you recommend a good tyre for cold icy conditions.

Not much difference, unless it's a large 28... bit safer on rutted lanes

The only tyres that work on ice are those with spikes

jimwalsh

managed to snag one of the £200 808 rims from px

any reason not to use an old shimano rs80 straight pull front hub? both are 16 hole...