Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Mr Biscuits

Ugo
As always thank you... decision made!

cycleclinic

I reckon the average mileage from the rear bearing in a miche hub is 16,000km if you ride in all weathers some will get more. Ride only in the wet and you get less. Mine current set in my carbon wheels have got to 12000km and they have seen plenty of water and they are till smooth. I am not sure how long the front bearings last as I have never worn a set out.

Those novatec hubs are great if you want silver curvey hub for pairing to the H plus son TB14. That is about the best use I can think for them as the look right with that rim.

itboffin

ugo.santalucia wrote:

jdee84 wrote:

Yeah that seems to be the way of it. Would the tune hubs be better than the standard hed ones on their HED Ardennes Plus SL 2016 http://www.hedwheels.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ARDSLPLUS?

My experience of Tune is: I have only ever seen them when there was a problem and we never managed to solve the problem... typically noises and creaks with unknown origin.

Never had problems with HED hubs, they seem reasonably good

Tune hubs = dry as a bone in my experience

That reminds me I need to regrease mine

agent_buchwald

A quick question - will 28 spokes be enough for a 90 kg rider using XR22t rims or should I be looking at 32? Thanks.

ugo.santalucia

Agent Buchwald wrote:

A quick question - will 28 spokes be enough for a 90 kg rider using XR22t rims or should I be looking at 32? Thanks.

Borderline. 4 spokes = 30 grams = 1/2 of an egg

drlodge

Borderline is what I was thinking, but I am no expert in these matters. Ugo built me a 24 spoke rear wheel, with heavy duty Alpine III spokes on the drive side, and I'm about 77kg. My Rourke wheels are Harry Rowland built, 32 spoke front and rear but then I am using record hubs which only come in 32.

For the extra weight of 4 spokes, I'd go 32.

spasypaddy

i think the dishing is off on my rear wheel, in my mind all i need to do is tighten every spoke up the non drive side a touch to bring it over slightly and that should sort it?

is it really as simple as that?

ugo.santalucia

spasypaddy wrote:

i think the dishing is off on my rear wheel, in my mind all i need to do is tighten every spoke up the non drive side a touch to bring it over slightly and that should sort it?

is it really as simple as that?

Yes, but you will have to re-true it after, most likely... weren't you supposed to be on your way to semi-pro wheels building? :roll:

agent_buchwald

Thanks for the replies - it wasn't to save weight but use some hubs that I've got - I'm more like 85kg and it's for a fixed wheel bike so presumably the rear will be stiffer - it's only for me and I'm building the wheels because I enjoy it and it might be interesting to see what happens.

spasypaddy

ugo.santalucia wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

i think the dishing is off on my rear wheel, in my mind all i need to do is tighten every spoke up the non drive side a touch to bring it over slightly and that should sort it?

is it really as simple as that?

Yes, but you will have to re-true it after, most likely... weren't you supposed to be on your way to semi-pro wheels building? :roll:

i said i was building for myself and if any mates wanted i would do it. never claimed to be anything more than that. did i see you let the moths out of your wallet a few weeks back?

this wheel was the first ever wheel i built for myself. its done be good throughout the winter. i replaced a spoke last week (or the week before, cant remember) and noticed that when i did i fucked up the dishing when i went up a climb at the weekend.

cycleclinic

It will be fine. Fixed gear rear wheels dont need as many spokes as spoke tension is even both sides and this helps spoke life as there is no low side and both sides of the wheel have the same bracing angles so share the torque evenly (that my logic anyway). Just did a wheelset in 24F/28R using DT R460 rims and sapim laser spokes for a rider around your weight. I had no hesitiation doing this. If you worry about then use sapim race, you will find it eaiser to build with these spokes anyway. The XR22t rim is similar to the DT R460.

I ride a 24 spoke disc brake wheelset on a 9kg bike with 7kg of load (sometimes more). Those wheels have Cx-rays and defies all the received wisdom.

Ugo's comments though are still vaild because he is right when 4 more spokes adds little weight.

agent_buchwald

Thanks, makes sense, I suppose by the same logic I could use the asymmetic XR22t rim for a geared rear. It's interesting what you say about the Sapim race spokes though - do they build a more robust wheel than other DB spokes in your experience?

ugo.santalucia

Agent Buchwald wrote:

do they build a more robust wheel than other DB spokes in your experience?

Depends which other...

ugo.santalucia

spasypaddy wrote:

did i see you let the moths out of your wallet a few weeks back?

Only to purchase a near new pre-loved/un-loved frame for 25% of the original price... principles above all! 8)

agent_buchwald

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Agent Buchwald wrote:

do they build a more robust wheel than other DB spokes in your experience?

Depends which other...

Well I suppose Alpina spokes?

ugo.santalucia

Agent Buchwald wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Agent Buchwald wrote:

do they build a more robust wheel than other DB spokes in your experience?

Depends which other...

Well I suppose Alpina spokes?

Alpina are 2.0/1.7 instead of 2.0/1.8, so yes, Sapim will give you a stronger wheel. That said, I have never had a problem with Alpina spokes

cycleclinic

You need to compare like with like. Apline DB spokes are 1.7mm width mid section. Thiss is thinner and therefore the spoke is a little less stiff. So in prinicple the alpina spokes will fatigue a bit quicker than sapim race or DT Swiss alpine.

I am assuming the steel used in alpina spokes is equivalent to that which sapim use I actually don't know this is true, it probably is but assumptions are just that.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

I am assuming the steel used in alpina spokes is equivalent to that which sapim use I actually don't know this is true, it probably is but assumptions are just that.

No, it's different... it's much more paramagnetic than Sapim and DT, which suggests more of a martensitic rather than austenitic type of stainless steel

mrb123

ugo.santalucia wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

I am assuming the steel used in alpina spokes is equivalent to that which sapim use I actually don't know this is true, it probably is but assumptions are just that.

No, it's different... it's much more paramagnetic than Sapim and DT, which suggests more of a martensitic rather than austenitic type of stainless steel

Had to get the dictionary out for that one! :?

drlodge

Martenistic + aging = Maraging steel which is what the Reynolds 953 stuff is :-)

cycleclinic

Austenite is a preferable for stainless steel as it far more corrosion resistant. Martensite if I remember right is achieved by a higher carbon content and will harden and strengthen the steel. I think this is more to do with price. chromium and nickel are expensive alloying elements. So Alpina spokes may use a cheaper steel. Maraging is done for strength and require very high nickel contents and through heat treatment inter-metallic compounds are precipitated within the micro-structure providing the hardening and strengthening effect. Often used for knives and other tools that need to maintain a sharp edge.the fact that alpina spokes may have marstensite means the nickel content must be lower than in sapim spokes as high nickel contents will prevent the transition to the martensite phase. so Alpina spokes wont be maraged as that require the addition of coblt and other expensive alloying consituents and spokes dont need to hold a sharp edge.

My word I may remember some of my degree.

ugo.santalucia

Malcolm, have you built the Mavic 819 XM disc rim? Does it come with the fore cups and all the bits? Can you fit a road or CX tyre to it?

cycleclinic

I have not used it yet. It is not that wide so CX tyres should fit fine (mavic actually fine for tyres 28mm to 62mm). According to the b2b is comes with the nipples cups. I should order a couple as being offset drilled it is a useful CX/gravel bike rim. I think it is a bit narrow for wide MTB tyres but there are some mountain bikers who swear by narrow mavic rims.

ugo.santalucia

thanks...

funny Mavic had it for 1.5 inch minimum for the 2015 rim, which as far as I can tell is exactly the same rim. I am wondering as I can buy 2 rims on CRC for 75 quid, but they are the 2015 ones... tempted to take a punt and return if the tyres don't fit (before building the wheel)... I've done it before with a pair of Stans Crest and they refunded without a quibble

cycleclinic

It is a 19mm wide rim (internal) if tyres won't that what will they fit to. that is the same width as many modern road rims. Actually I do wonder why you could not use a wide road rim for XC use I really don't see why not. Never tried fitting an MTB tyre to an archetype or wide Kinlin rim. Got some 2.2" tyres on old mavic X517 rims. Dont ride them much any more though.

sub2

Would someone please be kind enough to suggest the lightest 700c wheelset I can have built fit for say a max of £400 ?

I am 65 kg.

Thanks.

ugo.santalucia

Sub2 wrote:

Would someone please be kind enough to suggest the lightest 700c wheelset I can have built fit for say a max of £400 ?

I am 65 kg.

Thanks.

A pair of 300 grams hubs, a pair of 800 grams rims (400 each) and 130 grams of spokes and nipples... = 1230 grams

mrb123

Sub2 wrote:

Would someone please be kind enough to suggest the lightest 700c wheelset I can have built fit for say a max of £400 ?

I am 65 kg.

Thanks.

Ryde Pulse Sprint rims. To come in under budget you're probably looking at hubs like Novatecs and D-light spokes rather than CXRAYS.

mrb123

MrB123 wrote:

Sub2 wrote:

Would someone please be kind enough to suggest the lightest 700c wheelset I can have built fit for say a max of £400 ?

I am 65 kg.

Thanks.

Ryde Pulse Sprint rims. To come in under budget you're probably looking at hubs like Novatecs and D-light spokes rather than CXRAYS.

For example here,
http://dcrwheels.co.uk/products/rims/70 ... yde-pulse/

415 quid with DCR hubs and CXRAYS. Swap the spokes for Dlights and you're under budget with little or no weight penalty. You'll probably be ok with 20:24 too at your weight so circa 1300g for the build.

cycleclinic

Cx-rays or laser with alloy nipples x 44 is 220g and 52 are 260g so ugo your weights are a bit off.

20F/24R with the Ryde Pulse sprint is asking for trouble. The 28H rim comes in offset drilling so for the sake of 20g go with that. So 20f/28R is a better combination.

With the novatec A291/F482 SB hubs and laser spokes/alloy nipples 20F/28R weight would be 1335g

Also question why you want a rear hub with small bearings. Low cost light weight rear hubs do require more frequent bearing replacement. No idea how the bitex hubs (DCR hubs are bitex) fair but the novatec hubs can require bearing replacements every 3000 miles for the rear hub some get more some get less when they ride through winter.

You could go for the novatec A291/F172 hubs combination and save money and weight will be in 20F/28R spoke count as the F172 hub has much bigger bearings and is therefore far more reliable. 20F/28R novatec A291/F172 SB hubs sapim laser spokes alloy nipples and Ryde Pulse sprint rims weight 1365g.

Personally that is what I would suggest to meet your budget and weight goal while still having a reliable hubset.