Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

scott_w1987

If I was going for a set of semi light alloy clinchers to reduce the training miles on my Nemesis tubs on my race bike which hubs would you recommend? The miche primatos or novatech a171/f172s?

I'll also probably be going for a set of grey or black archetype rims built 24/28 unless recommended otherwise?

I'm a fairly powerful 80-84kg rider that is attempting to train with Cat1/2/3 racers(with an upcoming first race in less than a month!), I will be running vittoria corsa sc 25mm tyres on a Cannondale Caad9

cycleclinic

Miche hubs are heavier but overall a better hub in terms of longevity and ease of maintance. The novatecs are useful when you want a period looking shiney silver hub for a classic bike. That what i use them for.

scott_w1987

Slightly cheaper too! I shall be buying a set from you sometime soon, thanks for the useful information.

Black and grey brake track longevity much the same?

LEY8R

thecycleclinic wrote:

Miche hubs are heavier but overall a better hub in terms of longevity and ease of maintance. The novatecs are useful when you want a period looking shiney silver hub for a classic bike. That what i use them for.

How would Shimano 105 hubs compare to those hubs please Malcolm>

cycleclinic

I avoid building with 105 hubs not because they are a bad piece of kit, they are not. they do however need maintenance. This maintenance is often skipped or not done properly and then the hub may only give 10,000 miles of use and be trash (maybe less it depends on conditions of use). If you maintain 105 hubs then more miles will be possible. Miche and novatec hubs have cartridge bearings which when worn out are replaceable and the hub will be like new again. this can be done time and time again until the bearing install is cocked up and that could ruin the bearing seats. Miche hubs are so simple (free axle design) than bearing removal is simple and it is hard to mess up the installation of the bearings.

Shimano ultegra and dura ace hubs if maintained (I'd suggest every 5000 miles and I mean new bearings and good grease) preventively will do stellar mileage. There is one guy who contacted me for a freehub for an ultegra 6402 hub he had 50,000 miles on his and that was all that was wrong with his hubs! A 105 hub just cannot compare to that, hence they only work well for those that will service them at home and do it preventively rather than when the hub is feeling rough.

munkster

Interesting Malcolm. What sort of +/- would you advocate on the service interval on DA hubs then? I absolutely love mine and have already put nearly 1000 miles on them in not very long. Alternating between this bike and winter bike etc I reckon my 5000 would be up well before 2 years, a full service (new bearings) that regularly you reckon? When I put it like that that doesn't sound so bad but still...

cycleclinic

Every 5000 miles should be enough but I would also check them regularly by spinning the axle by hand without the Q/R in place to see how they feel. Any play must be attended to before it can cause damage and any hint of roughness means replace the bearings before wear sets in. If the maintance is done before you need it then the hubs will do stellar mileage.

To give you an idea of how much the bearings cost the NDS rear ball retainer with balls is £5.99 and the other side has loose 1/4" balls I think but I forget exactly what is in there. For the front hub it is caged ball again for a similar price. Either way the bearings are not too expensive but unless yours have an issue then they should be fine for a while longer.

rrsodl

I have wheels with 105, Novatec a171/f172 and Dura Ace.

I like the Novatecs, there's no problem with them. The sealed bearings can be replaced easily. Sealed bearings are not ideal for bike wheels but that is another matter.

I've never had a problem with 105 hubs and they can do high mileage. The servicing is crucial for a long life.

Dura Ace, very much like the 105, cup and cone. Well maintain the do very high mileage.

The biggest problem I find is that getting the adjustment right is not so easy and having the bearing too tight or too lose the result is the same, the bearings need replacing sooner.

The new Dura Ace and Ultegra hubs have a new adjustment system that is better than my old 105 but the trick to get the adjustment spot on is just as difficult. I don't think I have ever managed to get it right on the first, second or even third attempt and even then I always have a doubt that I might have over tightened them. Precisely for this reason I check the bearings, the procedure was already described, every 1000 miles or so, just in case

dork_knight

I've been considering some carbon rims for a build rather than going for factory wheels;

Rims for a Disc Build, 40 to 50mm Deep by 25mm Wide and Tubeless appeal to me.

I've seen the following two rims which look Ok;

http://www.nextie-bike.com/road/25mm-cl ... compatible

http://www.bdopcycling.com/DTO-40%20DIS ... 20RIMS.asp

Does anyone have any experience with Nextie or BDop Rims or have any alternatives that are worth looking at?

The weight of the BDop look good but they are a fair amount more than I wanted to pay, really pushing it for me especially if additional fees are to be paid when they land in the UK and the Nextie look to be at the higher end of the weight range I would be looking for.

Cheers.

cycleclinic

You will have to buy and try. I wish i had the cash to pay for mold at a factory and get something similar made but you have to sell an awful lot of rims to get your money back.

dork_knight

Thanks Malcolm ~ Think I'll have to spend some more time weighing in on the pro's and con's of them.

bendertherobot

Anyone experiencing Pacenti SL25 rim rattle (Ugo, not yours love!).

I'm guessing the weld sleeve is still in there. It's messing with my OCD>................

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621934#p19621934]bendertherobot[/url] wrote:

Anyone experiencing Pacenti SL25 rim rattle (Ugo, not yours love!).

I'm guessing the weld sleeve is still in there. It's messing with my OCD>................

There might be a piece of metal that got detatched from the weld... not the end of the world... shake it out... although that involves undoing the tape etc... it's worse when it happens to a set of TB 14 which are completely sealed and there is no way to get it out...

bendertherobot

I'm going to get a big magnet............................

bendertherobot

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621940#p19621940]ugo.santalucia[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621934#p19621934]bendertherobot[/url] wrote:

Anyone experiencing Pacenti SL25 rim rattle (Ugo, not yours love!).

I'm guessing the weld sleeve is still in there. It's messing with my OCD>................

There might be a piece of metal that got detatched from the weld... not the end of the world... shake it out... although that involves undoing the tape etc... it's worse when it happens to a set of TB 14 which are completely sealed and there is no way to get it out...

My solution? Stick the rattly wheels on the PX. Stick your nice solid ones on the Ritchey. Hubs are quieter for a start.

Though I do have to swap tubeless tyres over tomorrow now......

Philly8mt

Hello chaps

Sat here with a broken collarbone and have been mulling over the purchase of some new wheels.

I must admit I'd thought about Kysriums, Fulcrum 3's & Racing Quattro's. What I hadn't considered (stupidly) was hand built wheels!

I'm riding a Cervelo R2 (R3 frame with "mud" forks) with RS10's shod in 25mm Conti GP4000s11 tyres at the mo.

I'd be the first to admit that aesthetics do matter, although I'm not a complete tart!

I'm 200lb in weight (and dropping) ... This would mean a fair old spoke count!
Will want to use 25mm Conti's
Useless on hills, but I try! .... Weight could be important!
Have the odd respectable flat time on Strava segments
Riding more rural roads around Notts
I'm mechanically useless ... Sorry, it's just not my thing!
Probably will average 100 miles per week when "back in the saddle"
These are strictly "summer" wheels

Fancied something 25-35mm if poss? All black with red nipples or all black with the poss exception of the hub (black, white or red) and one spoke on each wheel that will be white (yes, I'm odd).

Any thoughts? Or do I just wait till I'm up and cycling again and buy the Kysrium/Fulcrums?

Thanks in advance for the sympathy, urine extraction and advice
Phil

darkhairedlord

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621940#p19621940]ugo.santalucia[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621934#p19621934]bendertherobot[/url] wrote:

Anyone experiencing Pacenti SL25 rim rattle (Ugo, not yours love!).

I'm guessing the weld sleeve is still in there. It's messing with my OCD>................

There might be a piece of metal that got detatched from the weld... not the end of the world... shake it out... although that involves undoing the tape etc... it's worse when it happens to a set of TB 14 which are completely sealed and there is no way to get it out...

If it wont come out just squirt some expanding foam in there, thatll stop the rattle and stiffen the rim in one go

cycleclinic

200lbs is ~90kg i.e you will be fine on a 28 spoke rear. The rim you could use is the venerable H plus Son archetype, Pacenti SL23 or the deeper Kinlin XR31T (31mm deep). These rims are all wide. Your choice of factory wheels suggest the Archetype rim will be the best bet as that will keep to your budget. Lace them to Miche hubs (again your choice of factory wheels suggest a budget that will not allow something more expnsive).

The difference between the above and the fulcrums will be the width of the rim and that is worth having over the small weight penalty.

If you want a factory wheel with a wide rim there is the DT Swiss R23 spline ( I am sure it is that one) but this only has 24 spokes at the rear which is a bit low for my liking for a 90kg rider but also could be fine.

apreading

I think I may be heading for a new freehub for my American Classic 225 hubs. Does anyone know how I tell if I have 10 or 11 speed at the moment? If I have 10 speed then do I need to find a 10 speed freehub to avoid having to change spacings and redish the wheels? Does anyone know what the difference between 11 speed MTB and 11 speed road are?

I suspect that the spring slipped on the clutch this morning but only briefly and it seems to engage OK now but havent ridden more than a couple of miles since. Am intending to test further, maybe clean/regrease the innards and maybe even bend the pin a bit further out to see if I can keep them running, but also preparing for the worst... there seems to be much debate about whether bending the pin will help or should be avoided but if it already needs replacing then I cant see that it would damage anything that wasnt part of the replacement already.

Also, any tips on setting up with the correct amount of play after re-assembly?

Philly8mt

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19623732#p19623732]thecycleclinic[/url] wrote:

200lbs is ~90kg i.e you will be fine on a 28 spoke rear. The rim you could use is the venerable H plus Son archetype, Pacenti SL23 or the deeper Kinlin XR31T (31mm deep). These rims are all wide. Your choice of factory wheels suggest the Archetype rim will be the best bet as that will keep to your budget. Lace them to Miche hubs (again your choice of factory wheels suggest a budget that will not allow something more expnsive).

The difference between the above and the fulcrums will be the width of the rim and that is worth having over the small weight penalty.

If you want a factory wheel with a wide rim there is the DT Swiss R23 spline ( I am sure it is that one) but this only has 24 spokes at the rear which is a bit low for my liking for a 90kg rider but also could be fine.

Many thanks for the detailed answer, much appreciated.
Gives me something to think about whilst I'm recovering.

Bar Shaker

My Ksyriums are coming up to 6,000 miles and my Far Sports have now done 2,500. The mantra of hand builts is "when you need to replace something, you won't be able to", or "it will be expensive when they break". But I haven't needed to replace anything and don't seem likely to in the short/mid term. I want to consider hand builts, but an image like this always comes to mind...



or like this...




So, chaps, post some pics of your bike and your hand builts and give me some better images to think of... for when my factory wheels eventually break in an expensive way.

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19629584#p19629584]Bar Shaker[/url] wrote:

My Ksyriums are coming up to 6,000 miles and my Far Sports have now done 2,500. The mantra of hand builts is "when you need to replace something, you won't be able to", or "it will be expensive when they break". But I haven't needed to replace anything and don't seem likely to in the short/mid term. I want to consider hand builts, but an image like this always comes to mind...

Get more Farsports... look, these are hand built... :shock:

If you choose silver spokes, some folks might even think you've gone the expensive bespoke route instead of buying from China...

cycleclinic

I just think you need to look at the various websites of wheel builders. that will correct your predujices. Look at ugo's blog as well his pics are quite good.

If the wheels work for you run them into the ground before buying something else unless you have a wheel fetish.

bendertherobot

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19623598#p19623598]darkhairedlord[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621940#p19621940]ugo.santalucia[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621934#p19621934]bendertherobot[/url] wrote:

Anyone experiencing Pacenti SL25 rim rattle (Ugo, not yours love!).

I'm guessing the weld sleeve is still in there. It's messing with my OCD>................

There might be a piece of metal that got detatched from the weld... not the end of the world... shake it out... although that involves undoing the tape etc... it's worse when it happens to a set of TB 14 which are completely sealed and there is no way to get it out...

If it wont come out just squirt some expanding foam in there, thatll stop the rattle and stiffen the rim in one go

No nails seems to have done the trick........not much, just stuck some on the end of a GT85 straw and waggled it inside.

cattytown

Sl23 Vs Hed Ardennes/Belgium

I am considering a set of wheels and looking at these rims as front runners. They will be used tubeless. What are the factors to choose between the two?

Looking mainly in the direction of Royce for hubs.

What would be the spokes to look at?

I live in a hilly area, but am no climber. <> 90 Kg and dropping. General all round riding.

Thanks,
Paul.

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19630578#p19630578]cattytown[/url] wrote:

Sl23 Vs Hed Ardennes/Belgium

I am considering a set of wheels and looking at these rims as front runners. They will be used tubeless. What are the factors to choose between the two?

Looking mainly in the direction of Royce for hubs.

What would be the spokes to look at?

I live in a hilly area, but am no climber. <> 90 Kg and dropping. General all round riding.

Thanks,
Paul.

Assuming you are talking about the HED plus (25 mm) Hard to say, the new SL 23 have been improved to get rid of the previous issues (very tight tyre fit and need for rim washers to avoid cracks), but they have not been around long enough to be able to comment. They are significantly lighter than the HED plus, but the HED plus are nice solid durable rims. I have had my HED plus for just about one year now... done around 6-7000 miles on them, lots of off road as well. They are flawless and I don't seem to get bored of the look of them either. The difference in price is not huge... they are both expensive rims. If budget was not an issue, I would buy the HED again.

Re Royce: they are of course quality hubs, but for me they don't tick the value for money box, meaning you can get something just as reliable (in fact more reliable IME) for a lot less. Hope, PMP, Ultegra/Dura Ace, Record are all much cheaper.

Leave the spoke choice and number to whoever is going to build them.

cattytown

Thanks Ugo. One of the things I like about the Royce is the look :-)

I am also mindful the HED rims are not exactly a common rim for builders. I know Malcolm lists them, as does Jon at JRA, but I struggle to see other sources.

Paul.

ugo.santalucia

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19630648#p19630648]cattytown[/url] wrote:

Thanks Ugo. One of the things I like about the Royce is the look :-)

I am also mindful the HED rims are not exactly a common rim for builders. I know Malcolm lists them, as does Jon at JRA, but I struggle to see other sources.

Paul.

Do you need other sources? You won't find them cheaper anywhere... they are not exactly distributed in the UK... rather sold reluctantly from HED UK with the caveat that they would rather sell wheels!

cattytown

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19630654#p19630654]ugo.santalucia[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19630648#p19630648]cattytown[/url] wrote:

Thanks Ugo. One of the things I like about the Royce is the look :-)

I am also mindful the HED rims are not exactly a common rim for builders. I know Malcolm lists them, as does Jon at JRA, but I struggle to see other sources.

Paul.

Do you need other sources? You won't find them cheaper anywhere... they are not exactly distributed in the UK... rather sold reluctantly from HED UK with the caveat that they would rather sell wheels!

Actually no - I am rather tempted with giving Malcolm a try this time around :-)

cycleclinic

Royce are certainly not value for money but they are cheaper than Chris King but without the expensive tooling needed for servicing. People buy Royce hubs to have something with a gorgeous satin finish, made in the U.K and a hub where spares will be available ad infinitum (or as long a cliff is in business). That is enough reasons for some but certainly not many.