Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

drlodge

bendertherobot wrote:

You save money buying Hope's as well, for commuting on shared paths, because you won't need a bell.

Ain't that the truth - picked up my new wheels from Ugo yesterday (Hope mono RS hubs) and the freewheel is certainly quite loud, on a par with my Record hubs.

rowlers

Can someone check my calculations please?
Novatec a171, Kinlin XR-200 Front 24h radial with 279.1mm spokes - So 280mm
rear 28 2x
left - 283.4mm so 284mm?
right 281.8 so 282mm?
does this sound about right?

thanks

apreading

You are right - you did post it before because I saw the post. didnt click on the link at that time but I have just done so and it wont display - says "image [......] cannot be displayed because it contains errors"

Origami02

Sorry previous link was my bad. Seemed to be working at the time though

Latest SL23 iteration direct from Kirk Pacenti.

arlowood

Englander wrote:

There isn't a spreadsheet or similar somewhere detailing, for example, the most popular rims (with or without brake track), spokes, hubs (disc brakes or not) including the pros and cons of each which one would be able to use to get an initial idea of what sort of components one would like before asking for more direct advice? I'm looking for something like 28H/32H, wide but shallow rim with disc brake hubs and, black spokes that could be described as a touring wheelset, but I'm not entirely sure where to start.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Start by Hope and Archetype if you can afford the combination

One possible source of the combination suggested by Ugo is Moonglu.

http://www.moonglu.com/products/handbui ... isc-wheels

I had a set built up back at the beginning of March to complete my Equilibrium Disc build. These were 32/32 with the standard Sapim Race spokes. Price seems to have gone up a bit since my purchase but still a good solid disc option. Not the lightest wheelset in the world (mine weighed in at a tad over 1900g on delivery) but I have no complaints and they run very smoothly with 25mm Michelin Pro4 SC.

Image of the finished build + wheelset below

mrb123

Did your wheels come with skewers or did you have to buy some from elsewhere?

ugo.santalucia

MrB123 wrote:

Did your wheels come with skewers or did you have to buy some from elsewhere?

Hope come without skewers... other hubs come with skewers (Shimano and Novatec do)

arlowood

MrB123 wrote:

Did your wheels come with skewers or did you have to buy some from elsewhere?

Yes as Ugo says - no skewers provided which I thought was a bit mean. Bought a set of Hope skewers separately

philclubman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

rim depth does make some difference to lateral deflection but it is relative to what you compare it too. Having tension checked in your Kinlin wheel is not a bad idea but it will have to be with someone who has a sapim gauge or perhaps the wheel fanatik gauge as the DT Swiss gauge cannot read the NDS spokes and if you go by the DT Swiss chart for aerolites you would think a deflection of 0.5 is 1200N for the DS. It is not however. A deflection of 0.65 is 1200N (I have a jig to determine this).

There is a calibration chart for Sapim spokes and DT gauge made available by some nice guy and done by folks at Sapim.
1200 N for CX Ray reads about 0.7 or so by memory on the DT gauge.

Guys,

Just to come back to this, I took the wheels to my local bike shop who measured the tension with a Park Tool gauge. He said they were under tensioned. Measured '14' on the Park gauge (Drive side).

Can he get a correct tension using the Park gauge and do a decent job of re-tensioning or do I need to take to someone else?

Ta

ugo.santalucia

PhilClubman wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

rim depth does make some difference to lateral deflection but it is relative to what you compare it too. Having tension checked in your Kinlin wheel is not a bad idea but it will have to be with someone who has a sapim gauge or perhaps the wheel fanatik gauge as the DT Swiss gauge cannot read the NDS spokes and if you go by the DT Swiss chart for aerolites you would think a deflection of 0.5 is 1200N for the DS. It is not however. A deflection of 0.65 is 1200N (I have a jig to determine this).

There is a calibration chart for Sapim spokes and DT gauge made available by some nice guy and done by folks at Sapim.
1200 N for CX Ray reads about 0.7 or so by memory on the DT gauge.

Guys,

Just to come back to this, I took the wheels to my local bike shop who measured the tension with a Park Tool gauge. He said they were under tensioned. Measured '14' on the Park gauge (Drive side).

Can he get a correct tension using the Park gauge and do a decent job of re-tensioning or do I need to take to someone else?

Ta

Sounds about right... 14 is allegedly 1100 N on that gauge, but it tends to under-read, so most likely somewhere around 1000 N, which is a bit low for a modern drive side

naylor343

http://southernwheelworks.com/2015/04/2 ... -road-rim/

Some further info on the new SL23, including reduced brake track height.

ugo.santalucia

naylor343 wrote:

http://southernwheelworks.com/2015/04/27/updated-pacenti-sl23-road-rim/

Some further info on the new SL23, including reduced brake track height.

I've come to the conclusion that basically it's the same extrusion as the SL 25 and then it is machined. Because of the slightly different shape, only an 8 mm brake track could be machined.

Origami02

naylor343 wrote:

http://southernwheelworks.com/2015/04/27/updated-pacenti-sl23-road-rim/

Some further info on the new SL23, including reduced brake track height.

I can't see the loss of 2mm of brake track height being an issue. I recently took delivery of a set of wheels built by Superstar Components using the original SL23 rims and my standard Shimano pads have spare brake track extending above and below them.

graememacd

I've noticed an occasional pinging noise from my front wheel recently. It's an Archetype rim with DT competition spokes (24 x 2 cross) on Novatec hubs. I just checked the tensions and they seem a bit lower than before, any idas why this has happened?? It was my first build so I may have done something wrong, although they've done over 500 miles now

ugo.santalucia

graememacd wrote:

I've noticed an occasional pinging noise from my front wheel recently. It's an Archetype rim with DT competition spokes (24 x 2 cross) on Novatec hubs. I just checked the tensions and they seem a bit lower than before, any idas why this has happened?? It was my first build so I may have done something wrong, although they've done over 500 miles now

Spoke tension can only go down over time... a bit of unwinding, maybe wear of the material around the holes... just "top it up"

graememacd

ugo.santalucia wrote:

graememacd wrote:

I've noticed an occasional pinging noise from my front wheel recently. It's an Archetype rim with DT competition spokes (24 x 2 cross) on Novatec hubs. I just checked the tensions and they seem a bit lower than before, any idas why this has happened?? It was my first build so I may have done something wrong, although they've done over 500 miles now

Spoke tension can only go down over time... a bit of unwinding, maybe wear of the material around the holes... just "top it up"

They did seem to go down quite a lot though, as low as 60 Kgf. Is that normal? Tentioned them back up to 100 Kgf now.
Just re-tentioned it and now just got to true it. is it an issue to leave the tyre on while re-truing?? I have tubeless tyres so would rather not remove them

ugo.santalucia

graememacd wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

graememacd wrote:

I've noticed an occasional pinging noise from my front wheel recently. It's an Archetype rim with DT competition spokes (24 x 2 cross) on Novatec hubs. I just checked the tensions and they seem a bit lower than before, any idas why this has happened?? It was my first build so I may have done something wrong, although they've done over 500 miles now

Spoke tension can only go down over time... a bit of unwinding, maybe wear of the material around the holes... just "top it up"

They did seem to go down quite a lot though, as low as 60 Kgf. Is that normal? Tentioned them back up to 100 Kgf now.
Just re-tentioned it and now just got to true it. is it an issue to leave the tyre on while re-truing?? I have tubeless tyres so would rather not remove them

Part of the tension drop is down to fitting the tyre...

http://whosatthewheel.com/2015/04/26/ro ... e-tension/

uncle_buk

Hello,
considering my first set of handbuilt wheels and looking for some advice. Here's what I've decided on so far:

Ambrosio Excelight SSC rims
Campagnolo Record hubs
Sapim D-light spokes / brass nipples

I'll be using as 'summer' wheels for riding in the Peak District rather than commuting and I weigh about 82kg. I'm just wondering if these are the best option for £400-500 price point? Any opinions or alternative suggestions most welcome.

Cheers,
Buk

ugo.santalucia

uncle buk wrote:

Hello,
considering my first set of handbuilt wheels and looking for some advice. Here's what I've decided on so far:

Ambrosio Excelight SSC rims
Campagnolo Record hubs
Sapim D-light spokes / brass nipples

I'll be using as 'summer' wheels for riding in the Peak District rather than commuting and I weigh about 82kg. I'm just wondering if these are the best option for £400-500 price point? Any opinions or alternative suggestions most welcome.

Cheers,
Buk

Narrow rims like the Ambrosio (19 external and 13.5 internal) are the past... the trend now is for wider rims, that handle better bends, descents and general crap roads. IMO they will be superior in your part of the world.

Keeping your hub and spoke choice, which seems adequate, I would go for a wider rim. The best seller is H plus Son Archetype, which is also the easiest to source.

cycleclinic

With that rim use sapim race on the rear to get a wheel that will be stiff enough. The rim is shallow narrow and expensive. The DT Swiss RR440 is similarly priced, tubeless compatible, stiffer same weight, slightly wider and comes in an off set drilling for the rear. So if you want shallow go for the DT Swiss rim if you don't mind then the H plus son archetype is a good choice too.

drlodge

uncle buk wrote:

Hello,
considering my first set of handbuilt wheels and looking for some advice. Here's what I've decided on so far:

Ambrosio Excelight SSC rims
Campagnolo Record hubs
Sapim D-light spokes / brass nipples

I'll be using as 'summer' wheels for riding in the Peak District rather than commuting and I weigh about 82kg. I'm just wondering if these are the best option for £400-500 price point? Any opinions or alternative suggestions most welcome.

Cheers,
Buk

Exactly the wheels I had Harry Rowland build for me, except I have Sapim Laser on the front and race on the rear. 32H obviously. As Ugo says, wider rims are "better" and if doing it again and staying with a "tubed" rim I'd go with H-Plus Son Archetype. But they're a lovely wheel and have had zero problems with them.

Just got Ugo to build me a replacement set of wheels using the DT Swiss RR440 rim which has an asymmetric option for the rear, they're tubeless and 1mm wider than the Excellight and ideally suited to 23c tyres. You could go 32H with Record hubs with these rims, I've gone 20/28 with Hope RS Mono, CX-ray on the front and Sapim D-light/Alpine III on the rear. A much nicer wheel IMO and ideal for what you want, and within your budget.

uncle_buk

Thank you for all the feedback folks, it is very much appreciated.

I think I will explore the DT Swiss RR440 as an alternative now - the asymmetrical option make sense (thanks for the explanation, Dave!) and I prefer the shallow profile. Also, the advice on the spokes really helps too. I suppose my last question is whether there are an alternatives to Campagnolo Record hubs I should consider.

Cheers,
Buk

ugo.santalucia

uncle buk wrote:

Thank you for all the feedback folks, it is very much appreciated.

I think I will explore the DT Swiss RR440 as an alternative now - the asymmetrical option make sense (thanks for the explanation, Dave!) and I prefer the shallow profile. Also, the advice on the spokes really helps too. I suppose my last question is whether there are an alternatives to Campagnolo Record hubs I should consider.

Cheers,
Buk

Only Hope Mono RS

secretsam

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Narrow rims like the Ambrosio (19 external and 13.5 internal) are the past... the trend now is for wider rims, that handle better bends, descents and general crap roads.

But what if you have tight clearances on your bike, I mean - how "wide" is "wider"?

ugo.santalucia

SecretSam wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Narrow rims like the Ambrosio (19 external and 13.5 internal) are the past... the trend now is for wider rims, that handle better bends, descents and general crap roads.

But what if you have tight clearances on your bike, I mean - how "wide" is "wider"?

If your frame's stays cannot take 23 mm rims, then I suggest selling it. Virtually all carbon rims on the market are wider than that

cycleclinic

record hubs are lovely but if you have the cash dura ace 9000 will work to if you have 11 speed (as 11 speed shkmanl and campagnolo are interchangable) other wise you have to spend more on white industries t11 hubs. Hope hubs are more resonably priced bit to me there is no contest between hope and campagnolo record hubs so long as you don't mind 32h drilling.

wotnoshoeseh

Looking for some recommendations for a wheelset.
This is what I had been thinking of.

Rider weight 90 -95 kgs.
Pacy club runs.16-18 mph.
Giant Defy Aluminium
Hubs: Hope Mono RS. 28F, 32R
Rims: H Plus Son Archetype.
Spokes: Sapim Laser front; Sapim Laser NDS/ Race DS rear.
Spoking: F- radial R - radial / 3 cross.
Running Shimano 10 speed.

ugo.santalucia

wotnoshoeseh wrote:

Looking for some recommendations for a wheelset.
This is what I had been thinking of.

Rider weight 90 -95 kgs.
Pacy club runs.16-18 mph.
Giant Defy Aluminium
Hubs: Hope Mono RS. 28F, 32R
Rims: H Plus Son Archetype.
Spokes: Sapim Laser front; Sapim Laser NDS/ Race DS rear.
Spoking: F- radial R - radial / 3 cross.
Running Shimano 10 speed.

front will be 2 or 3 cross or you invalidate the warranty.
Rear will be 3 cross on both sides and Sapim race on both sides... then it will be a cracking set

cycleclinic

Radial with those drllings is pointless. You are only risking a hub flange breakage. It does happen even to hope hubs however unlikley. 2x front 3x rear if your wheel builder would agree to those lacing you suggest i would find another wheel builder.

freebs

Guys, for my second build I am considering Novatec 171/172 hubs and H plus son rims. Looks to be a decent price wheel. I shall have them on my 'summer' bike. Sound reasonable?

Thanks, Freebs.