Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

ugo.santalucia

LEY8R wrote:

I don't suppose the TB 14 have the right profile to be tubeless compatible do they?

nope

LEY8R

I'm going to have to get a pair anyway-they remind me of the Fiamme Ergals of my youth,although hopefully more suitable for my mid fifties accumulated muscle(okay fat aswell).Are they polished silver or anodised silver?Thanks for the response,by the way.

wotnoshoeseh

ugo.santalucia wrote:

wotnoshoeseh wrote:

In the process of restoring an old Reynolds 501 frame and see that the rear wheel spacing is 126 mm.

What options are available to me for hand buillts with this spacing?

Also if anyone can recommend a decent set of rims with that period look (late 1980's)

I have the same bike... 126 mm rear dropouts... and just built myself a pair of TB 14, which look awesome and they are a good ride too.
As for the hub, you either buy one on ebay or you can buy a 130 mm vintage one, file off 3 mm of axle and remove a couple of washers. Re-spacing old cup and cone/ screw on hubs is very easy and "wheel manufacturing" make all the components you need... SJS cycles sell them in the UK and The Cycle Clinic does too, I believe

Thanks Paulo....

What cassette can you use - I think mine was originally a six speed and had Shimano SiS downtube shifters. I'm tempted to say it was a freewheel set up but can't be sure - so long ago.....

Do I need to go for a freewheel style hub to be 126mm. OLN size, or can cassette style hubs be used?



Thanks,
D.

ugo.santalucia

For 126 you need a freewheel... if you want a cassette, then you need to cold set the seat stays to 130 mm, which is butchery in my view.
Have you seen this? Don't know how they can sell it so cheap, but they do

http://www.totalcycling.com/en/Phil-Woo ... 18365.aspx

ugo.santalucia

LEY8R wrote:

I'm going to have to get a pair anyway-they remind me of the Fiamme Ergals of my youth,although hopefully more suitable for my mid fifties accumulated muscle(okay fat aswell).Are they polished silver or anodised silver?Thanks for the response,by the way.

Polished silver or anodised grey, I have the grey ones, which look a bit like the Ambrosio Nemesis and the Mavic MA 40

cycleclinic

Well if you have a old 7 speed road hub they could be built to 126mm OLD.

the TB14 also comes in black but unsuprisingly that is not popular. TB14's are fine rims and quite stiff for such a shallow rim.

thats an interesting phil wood hub. Shame Big Mama/BLB dont import it. however if I open another catalogue the following is available

126mm Shimano RSX 410 (brand new!) 32H or 36H for UG 6/7 speed cassettes or 7 speed HG cassettes front and rear hubs available.
126mm threaded freewheel hubs
Shimano N600EX (rear only) 32H
Zenith Classic Large Flange 32H or 36H with sealed bearings. Front and rear hubs available.

For Shimano Uni glide cassettes only there is 1050 blue hubs and RM50 Sante hub pairs with a 126mm spacing. 6/7 speed UG cassettes though are not common.
I have even got a pair of shimano Dura Ace hubs HB7400/HB7401 100/126mm 7 speed UG hubs with a UG 13-19T cassette. I think these need strong legs or need a rider who lives somewhere quite flat, maybe both.

Lots of things available but that Phil wood hub looks very tasty.

apreading

Slightly OT, what is the best rim tape for running something like Stans Crest tubeless ready with tubes? Put some 22mm Velox cloth in my sons because the superstar plastic rimtape had slid sideways and was spilling out the side of the tyre! Thing it, with the Velox tape it seems like the rim bead is even shallower and seating the tyre slightly more difficult? Would this be the case, and what would be the best solution? Narrower rim tape so there is a gap at the sides, or thinner rimtape so that it doesnt reduce the bead depth so much?

ugo.santalucia

apreading wrote:

Slightly OT, what is the best rim tape for running something like Stans Crest tubeless ready with tubes? Put some 22mm Velox cloth in my sons because the superstar plastic rimtape had slid sideways and was spilling out the side of the tyre! Thing it, with the Velox tape it seems like the rim bead is even shallower and seating the tyre slightly more difficult? Would this be the case, and what would be the best solution? Narrower rim tape so there is a gap at the sides, or thinner rimtape so that it doesnt reduce the bead depth so much?

Stans 25 mm tape.

You know you can't run road tyres on the Crest, do you?

Origami02

apreading wrote:

Slightly OT, what is the best rim tape for running something like Stans Crest tubeless ready with tubes? Put some 22mm Velox cloth in my sons because the superstar plastic rimtape had slid sideways and was spilling out the side of the tyre! Thing it, with the Velox tape it seems like the rim bead is even shallower and seating the tyre slightly more difficult? Would this be the case, and what would be the best solution? Narrower rim tape so there is a gap at the sides, or thinner rimtape so that it doesnt reduce the bead depth so much?

I'd go wide enough to cover the spoke holes without sitting under the tyre bead. I used 12mm adhesive cloth tape on my SuperStar Pancenti SL 23 rims. It works really well for running with tubes.

apreading

Sorry - just realised more than just a little OT... Especially as this is in the road forum.

Think I may redo them with narrower tape - I have some 16mm Velox cloth which should be narrow enough to not interfere with the tyre bead. Had a quick read and seems like stans tape is thinner so wouldnt affect things so much so may get that in the future.

Thanks and sorry - back to the proper topic now!

ugo.santalucia

The new SL 23 rims will be available on the 4th of June, I was told by JRA

cattytown

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The new SL 23 rims will be available on the 4th of June, I was told by JRA

That's my mum's birthday. I wonder if she would like a pair...

Origami02

Strada Wheels got the new SL 23 rims in some weeks back.

wotnoshoeseh

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For 126 you need a freewheel... if you want a cassette, then you need to cold set the seat stays to 130 mm, which is butchery in my view.
Have you seen this? Don't know how they can sell it so cheap, but they do

http://www.totalcycling.com/en/Phil-Woo ... 18365.aspx

I also saw some 126 hubs for sale on DCR Wheels...

A new wheelset would indeed be very nice, but it's now defeating the whole idea of doing it up on a meagre budget... although I did ask for a recommendation for a nice rim for the period.

At the risk of going slightly off topic, may I ask; "is there anywhere I can source secondhand wheelsets for this age of bike?"

Thanks in advance.
D

Origami02

wotnoshoeseh wrote:

At the risk of going slightly off topic, may I ask; "is there anywhere I can source secondhand wheelsets for this age of bike?"

Thanks in advance.
D

http://www.hilarystone.com/

He can be a little "interesting" to deal with. He does get some good stock though.

ugo.santalucia

Ebay is your best bet. Right now it is a buyers market, meaning you can buy components for peanuts. I just bought a 531 tandem frame recently resprayed for 40 quid! A new tandem frame in 631 costs over 2 grand! :shock:

Cycle jumbles might be your other possibility

clogg

wotnoshoeseh wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For 126 you need a freewheel... if you want a cassette, then you need to cold set the seat stays to 130 mm, which is butchery in my view.
Have you seen this? Don't know how they can sell it so cheap, but they do

http://www.totalcycling.com/en/Phil-Woo ... 18365.aspx

I also saw some 126 hubs for sale on DCR Wheels...

A new wheelset would indeed be very nice, but it's now defeating the whole idea of doing it up on a meagre budget... although I did ask for a recommendation for a nice rim for the period.

At the risk of going slightly off topic, may I ask; "is there anywhere I can source secondhand wheelsets for this age of bike?"

Thanks in advance.
D

I built some open pro's onto a set of these miche monolithic hubs about 3 years ago to go on an old PDM team bike (126mm spacing). They are still going strong, not the most sophisticated but less than 20 quid and easily serviceable.

http://www.fawkes-cycles.co.uk/1187560/ ... r-36h.aspx

drlodge

wotnoshoeseh wrote:

I also saw some 126 hubs for sale on DCR Wheels...

If its the "Shimano Dura-Ace, Pair 7700, UG, 126mm, 6/7 speed, 32h,£120" hubs you're looking at, I think you'll be disappointed. Pretty sure these have been on his web site for around 3 years and were made up by Harry Rowland with Mavic Open Pro rims for my Condor Italia 531 Pro

cycleclinic

Evolution imports got skme new sl23 rkms a few weeks back and sent them out without realising. I got a few this week and they are very light at 417g but the iporter only has 20h rims. They informed me that new stock would be in sometime in june but i thought it would be later in june than the 4th. They were vague though as they did not know.

Da 7700 hubs are not 6/7 speed they kust be earlier ones than that. 7401 for example. Ebay will have some hubs for you if you can find some nice campagnolo record hubs you can at least get all the internal parts to restore them evennthe bearing cups.

cycleclinic

I have built many old bikes for my self none have ever been cheap. It would have always be cheaper to buy a new bike but hey wheres the fun in that. In my latest i have a 116mm rear triangle which somewhat limits hub options as does the need for flatened axles. Given i dont want to be using hubs from the 50's i have one option left for a fixed gear hub royce hubs with a modified axle. Well there are other choices but hey where the fun in that. Old frames are never cheap to build up is my point. If you like the frame just build it up slowly and let the budget stretch.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

Evolution imports got skme new sl23 rkms a few weeks back and sent them out without realising. I got a few this week and they are very light at 417g but the iporter only has 20h rims.

Seems a bit too light... is it going to be a case of fitting endless rim washers, hoping for the best and lots of people moaning on the web about cracks at the holes? :roll:

My view is that there is a reason why rims of that size normally weigh 450-500 grams... nobody has come out with the magic alloy yet

drlodge

ugo.santalucia wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

Evolution imports got skme new sl23 rkms a few weeks back and sent them out without realising. I got a few this week and they are very light at 417g but the iporter only has 20h rims.

Seems a bit too light... is it going to be a case of fitting endless rim washers, hoping for the best and lots of people moaning on the web about cracks at the holes? :roll:

My view is that there is a reason why rims of that size normally weigh 450-500 grams... nobody has come out with the magic alloy yet

Yes they have, its called unobtanium.

Origami02

The new SL23 has a thicker spoke bed, obviating the need of spoke washers. . Pacenti previously only recommended spoke washers on 24 hole rears. Even that previous advice could quite possibly be viewed as a belt and braces approach to, to some extent, "idiot proof" them against the less-competent wheel builders.

rando

i am going to upgrade the stock wheels on my Trek Domane 5.2 and cant decide on hanbuilts or factory wheels.
My 3 options are (and want to go tubeless)
1. Shimano Dura Ace C24
2. Bontrager Race X Lite
3. Handbuilt Pacenti SL23 with dt240 or dura ace hubs and sapim race spokes 28 rear / 24 front

All come in at approx the same price of £600 so would the handbuilt pacenti wheels really be so much better than the other 2 options ? Bare in mind i have zero knowledge of truing or fixing wheels !
For information i weigh 84kg and ride for pleasure doing sportives of 75-100 miles and require the wheels to be my everyday set but generally only used in the summer months on my good bike.

ugo.santalucia

So it's bigger, it's thicker but weighs less... maybe the magic alloy does exist after all...

or more likely there is less brake track, which would account for the bigger inner width, a la Stans...

EDIT: the weight saving comes from a shorter brake track, apparently... 8 mm tall instead of 9

Origami02

naylor343 wrote:

http://southernwheelworks.com/2015/04/27/updated-pacenti-sl23-road-rim/

Some further info on the new SL23, including reduced brake track height.

@ Ugo Thanks for the edit, though it's always best to be in possession of factual (ergo useful) information rather than simply, casually posting negatively-critical (and potentially injurious) conjecture.
Having said that, all of the points you guessed about wrongly about were dealt with accurately -and in a very positive light- in the above link posted in this very thread on Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:09 pm

DKay

ugo.santalucia wrote:

So it's bigger, it's thicker but weighs less... maybe the magic alloy does exist after all...

or more likely there is less brake track, which would account for the bigger inner width, a la Stans...

EDIT: the weight saving comes from a shorter brake track, apparently... 8 mm tall instead of 9

Think they've also saved weight by using smaller bead hooks too.

Origami02

DKay wrote:

Think they've also saved weight by using smaller bead hooks too.

That's correct. In addition to the extra external width, the smaller bead hooks also account for the greater internal rim width. The old bead hooks were over-size, and the new ones are more in line with the norm.

cycleclinic

Tyres shiuld be an easier fit too which is good for those that always had trouble.

cycleclinic

Oh and the only old sl23 rimm failure i have had is with a 28h rim. All the 24h rears are so far fine as far as know. I like the new rim. It makes the hed belgium almost pointless.