Powerlinks don't go together or come apart when squeezed
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However stiff the bristles are I very much doubt they are stronger than steel.0
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Veronese68 wrote:However stiff the bristles are I very much doubt they are stronger than steel.
They don't need to be stronger/harder if they are being wedged and forced in, only so many bristles can be forced in side by side next to each other and one extra one could bend the plates slightly.
Its the strength of your own hands determining it, one hand is on the pedal and the other is holding the chain cleaning machine, you can pedal it fast as hell pretty easily... but that doesn't mean bristles aren't slightly altering the plates. You have so much leverage on your hands (dealing with lengths of bristles like 1cm) you wouldn't even know if you were making the chain go looser, I mean its not really possible to feel it just from the resistance.
The softness of the bristles doesn't matter - only so many can fit in a confined space. Plus I did about 500 pedal turns to clean it. It went through the chain cleaner a lot of times (in the one cleaning session).
KMC saying don't use them is the main decider though.0 -
No no no no no no no no no no no no no...just no.
I dont give a hoot how many bristles are in contact with a single roller at any one time, they won't bend steel."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Never ever use bristles (or cloths) on a dirty chainManc33 wrote:The chain cleaner is stuffing bristles in so hard I think it is loosening the chain, well I know it is because it didn't change gear as well afterwards.
Got a KMC on now and the chain cleaning machine isn't going anywhere near it, neither is its "missing link".
All thery do is wipe the dirt IN the chain where you don't want it.0 -
Using a cloth wouldn't force grit into it like bristles can.
Up to now then... every way to clean a chain is wrong.
Its wrong with a chain cleaner machine, its wrong with a rag, well its starting to get as though you can't clean the chain at all.
Next time I do it, I will give it a wipe gently with diesel on a rag, then just oil it. It would probably be as cheap to buy a new chain every time it gets dirty, well it would for me, I am on 8 speed. Chains are like eight quid for a half decent one. If you get a low end one like the SRAM PC830 they are five quid.0 -
I think KMC will be advocating use of a water-based cleaner, rather than an organic solvent based one (setting aside the slight technicality that water is in fact an extremely powerful solvent). Water based cleaner is, essentially, soap. An organic solvent is much more effective at removing oil from your chain.Manc33 wrote:Shimano have been around a lot longer, is all.
Comments like "First generation SRAM stuff tends to be not quite right" doesn't give me much hope.
A chain cleaner ruined my chain because it rams stiff bristles right into the chain's rollers, but then KMC themselves say on their website "don't use a chain cleaner with a solvent" whatever that means, don't use one at all? The chain cleaner is stuffing bristles in so hard I think it is loosening the chain, well I know it is because it didn't change gear as well afterwards.
Got a KMC on now and the chain cleaning machine isn't going anywhere near it, neither is its "missing link".
The reason an organic solvent is not a good idea, in theory, is that its rather too good at cleaning the chain. It will remove lubricant from places that are really hard to get lubricant back into. This will not itself in any way damage the chain. An organic solvent will not be capable of attacking the metal surface (frankly this is much more likely to happen with an aqueous solution). Nor is there anything on a chain's surface that could be attacked by an organic solvent. So, once thoroughly degreased with your organic megasolvent, your chain is fine.
The problem arises with subsequent use, having failed to get lubricant back to where it needs to be. That could cause excess wear and, more worryingly, your chain might squeak.
However, if you do get a light oil back into the chain, job's a good'n. The pro teams wash pretty much everything with deisel and get by okay. I use white spirit. My chains last friggin' ages. Frankly you are going to inflict far more damage crossing the chain when riding.
There is just so much bumkum spread around on this subject, it offends my scientific sensibilities (I have two degrees in chemistry btw). Unlike Manc33, who's only degree is that of the concussion suffered when dropped on head as a child.
I don't think that KMC are advising you not to use the device itself though. The chain cleaning tool is safe, unless you ride off with it stil on. Although perhaps 500 revolutions is on the excessive side. What did the final 490 achieve, exactly, other than washing your chain with all the dirty gritty shit you just washed off it?0 -
Well my friend, you have the makings of a thesis here. Chains can't be cleaned. Powerlinks are useless. Clearly all of this points to chains being single use items, to be removed and replaced when dirty. Rather like cars when the glove box is full. With a little more research you'll be ready to write up.Manc33 wrote:Its wrong with a chain cleaner machine, its wrong with a rag, well its starting to get as though you can't clean the chain at all.0 -
I would get a grant application in first thoughFirst Aspect wrote:
Well my friend, you have the makings of a thesis here. Chains can't be cleaned. Powerlinks are useless. Clearly all of this points to chains being single use items, to be removed and replaced when dirty. Rather like cars when the glove box is full. With a little more research you'll be ready to write up.Manc33 wrote:Its wrong with a chain cleaner machine, its wrong with a rag, well its starting to get as though you can't clean the chain at all.0 -
Whatever you choose to clean a chain with it is pointless Unless you remove it from the chain BEFORE adding lubricant of your choice.
Remember if there is a problem, it is always going to be you that has caused it
( by 'you' I don't necessarily mean Manc)my isetta is a 300cc bike0 -
I've never heard of so much trouble with one chain !0
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To be fair, it's not the chains fault. Every subject becomes complex and someone else's fault once Manc gets involved. Chain quick-links, chain cleaners, seatposts, trim functions, frame sizes.....rational thought.cougie wrote:I've never heard of so much trouble with one chain !0 -
First Aspect wrote:There is just so much bumkum spread around on this subject, it offends my scientific sensibilities (I have two degrees in chemistry btw). Unlike Manc33, who's only degree is that of the concussion suffered when dropped on head as a child. 0
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cougie wrote:I've never heard of so much trouble with one chain !
It's actually the organic widget that connects the saddle & pedals that seems to be at most fault...
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I am similarly offended by the arbitrary nature of Manc's arguments and I too have an engineering and scientific background. However, I don't think qualifications are particularly relevant here. I've known plenty highly intelligent people with few qualifications and rather idiotic people with an impressive list of qualifications. If I was to find out Manc had a couple of PhDs it wouldn't improve my opinion of his drivel. If anything I'd think worse of him since it would seem he had the ability and opportunity to develop less ridiculous world comprehension.Veronese68 wrote:First Aspect wrote:There is just so much bumkum spread around on this subject, it offends my scientific sensibilities (I have two degrees in chemistry btw). Unlike Manc33, who's only degree is that of the concussion suffered when dropped on head as a child.0 -
Just lubed a chain, dry lube obviously, made sure it went to all the important places, because I know some of you are scientific in your approach I thought you might appreciate the accuracy
my isetta is a 300cc bike0 -
team47b wrote:Just lubed a chain, dry lube obviously, made sure it went to all the important places, because I know some of you are scientific in your approach I thought you might appreciate the accuracy
Ungloved hands?!!?! are you made! everyone knows the oil from skin can interfere with the lubricant and create a powerful chemical.
Last time I did this i was left clipped in with just the pedals, cranks and chainset, the rest of the bike completely dissolved, it was like some weird kind of unicycle.www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
It's a scam. They could make non-dissolving bikes if they wanted to but they don't; nor do they tell you about the dangers of un-gloved hands. They just want to sell more bikes, so they let us inadvertently dissolve the ones we already have. It's obvious if you're paying attention like me. I've never had one of my bikes dissolve but that's because I always use gloves.Chris Bass wrote:team47b wrote:Just lubed a chain, dry lube obviously, made sure it went to all the important places, because I know some of you are scientific in your approach I thought you might appreciate the accuracy
Ungloved hands?!!?! are you made! everyone knows the oil from skin can interfere with the lubricant and create a powerful chemical.
Last time I did this i was left clipped in with just the pedals, cranks and chainset, the rest of the bike completely dissolved, it was like some weird kind of unicycle.
It's a disgrace but since the bike industry only employs people they can control this information has not leaked out and is not commonly known, but it's obvious to me. They control bike industry people with small explosives in their heads. They can't just use pedophiles because apparently they're already all employed elsewhere, government and state owned companies I believe - apparently it's a great way to get ahead in these sectors! A guy on the internet told me...0 -
Manc33 wrote:Veronese68 wrote:However stiff the bristles are I very much doubt they are stronger than steel.
They don't need to be stronger/harder if they are being wedged and forced in, only so many bristles can be forced in side by side next to each other and one extra one could bend the plates slightly.
Its the strength of your own hands determining it, one hand is on the pedal and the other is holding the chain cleaning machine, you can pedal it fast as hell pretty easily... but that doesn't mean bristles aren't slightly altering the plates. You have so much leverage on your hands (dealing with lengths of bristles like 1cm) you wouldn't even know if you were making the chain go looser, I mean its not really possible to feel it just from the resistance.
The softness of the bristles doesn't matter - only so many can fit in a confined space. Plus I did about 500 pedal turns to clean it. It went through the chain cleaner a lot of times (in the one cleaning session).
KMC saying don't use them is the main decider though.
but they do advocate use of an old toothbrush to "clean between the plates" ...........like it's golden0 -
Chris Bass wrote:team47b wrote:Just lubed a chain, dry lube obviously, made sure it went to all the important places, because I know some of you are scientific in your approach I thought you might appreciate the accuracy
Ungloved hands?!!?! are you made! everyone knows the oil from skin can interfere with the lubricant and create a powerful chemical.
Last time I did this i was left clipped in with just the pedals, cranks and chainset, the rest of the bike completely dissolved, it was like some weird kind of unicycle.
Oops, I forgot the gloves I was too busy making sure I chose one of my bikes that has Shimano pins in the chain and not a quick link my isetta is a 300cc bike0 -
You better order your new bike so!team47b wrote:Chris Bass wrote:team47b wrote:Just lubed a chain, dry lube obviously, made sure it went to all the important places, because I know some of you are scientific in your approach I thought you might appreciate the accuracy
Ungloved hands?!!?! are you made! everyone knows the oil from skin can interfere with the lubricant and create a powerful chemical.
Last time I did this i was left clipped in with just the pedals, cranks and chainset, the rest of the bike completely dissolved, it was like some weird kind of unicycle.
Oops, I forgot the gloves I was too busy making sure I chose one of my bikes that has Shimano pins in the chain and not a quick link0 -
team47b wrote:Just lubed a chain, dry lube obviously, made sure it went to all the important places, because I know some of you are scientific in your approach I thought you might appreciate the accuracy
I wanted a syringe to oil my bike. As I don't know ant drug addicts I went to my local chemist. "Sorry we cant sell you any"
Same script at the next chemist. I looked on E bay and got two delivered next day for less than 2£.
Nothing to do with this stupid 17 page topic.0 -
lesfirth wrote:Nothing to do with this stupid 17 page topic.
18 pages.
To save anyone reading it all:
SRAM "Powerlink" can be forced onto a chain (I guess, by applying pressure to the pedals) and kinda snapped on, but can be tough. They cannot be removed again without a tool.
KMC "Missing Link" slides on and off too easily and rattles about too much.
Neither can be taken seriously. The SRAM is probably the better choice because it snaps firmly into place, but when we used to use chain breaker tools to break chains anyway and we still need a tool to remove a SRAM Powerlink, then the Powerlink kinda becomes redundant.
The ones that "don't go together or come apart when squeezed" are SRAM. KMC ones are too far the other way.0 -
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Is this still going?!
Any longer and it'll catch up to the Big Girls thread.
But with far worse content.0 -
Just one tit?0
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Manc33 wrote:Using a cloth wouldn't force grit into it like bristles can.
Up to now then... every way to clean a chain is wrong.
Its wrong with a chain cleaner machine, its wrong with a rag, well its starting to get as though you can't clean the chain at all.
CUT
There is only 1 perfect system:
Cook the chain in boiling soapy water for 10 minutes and rince with clean water afterwards.0 -
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You must look like a junkie then.lesfirth wrote:I wanted a syringe to oil my bike. As I don't know ant drug addicts I went to my local chemist. "Sorry we cant sell you any"
Same script at the next chemist. I looked on E bay and got two delivered next day for less than 2£.
Nothing to do with this stupid 17 page topic.
I went into a chemist to buy a syringe, they asked why and I explained it was to bleed the brakes on my bike and they looked puzzled then sold me a syringe for 50p. 0 -
That's you, that is.Manc33 wrote:
KMC "Missing Link" slides on and off too easily and rattles about too much.0 -
Veronese68 wrote:
You must look like a junkie then.lesfirth wrote:I wanted a syringe to oil my bike. As I don't know ant drug addicts I went to my local chemist. "Sorry we cant sell you any"
Same script at the next chemist. I looked on E bay and got two delivered next day for less than 2£.
Nothing to do with this stupid 17 page topic. I went into a chemist to buy a syringe, they asked why and I explained it was to bleed the brakes on my bike and they looked puzzled then sold me a syringe for 50p.
I was given the one in the photo by a vet my isetta is a 300cc bike0 -
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