Powerlinks don't go together or come apart when squeezed

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Comments

  • MisterMuncher
    MisterMuncher Posts: 1,302
    I can imagine him burning a boiled egg.
  • Manc33
    Manc33 Posts: 2,157
    Here's a question:

    Take a flat bar shifter with a trim function on it and now take a MTB left shifter that doesn't have trim and compare that to the flat bar road shifter - would the resting position on the middle chainring of the MTB shifter be right in the middle of the trim part of the road shifter?

    If the answer is yes, I have just explained right there why having a trim function, yes HAVING one, is the cause of chain rub and a shifter not having that trim is less likely to have chain rub.

    If you swapped the flat bar shifter to a MTB shifter with no trim, it is already in the best place it can be on the shifters click and like I said, I managed to set up a left MTB shifter in such a way (on a road frame) where it did not rub across the whole cassette on the middle ring, so there it is.
  • MisterMuncher
    MisterMuncher Posts: 1,302
    If you set up the shifter such that the correct derailleur position doesn't correspond to the indexing, then it wouldn't matter if it was a road, mtb or light aircraft shifter.

    The problem lies on the other end of the wrenches.
  • Manc33
    Manc33 Posts: 2,157
    A MTB one can be setup without chain rub where a flat bar road shifter has trim, needing you to use that trim at the extremes, on a MTB shifter it just doesn't rub so, no trim is needed. Hence trim causes chain rub, not in all cases, but some. Maybe I have just got a short enough chainstay to get away with it.

    Its bad enough that front shifters are indexed on triples without adding those light trim click into the mix as well. Its taking something that already has to be tweaked perfectly to work without chain rub and putting a trim that clicks either side of the "best" place, which on a MTB shifter is just where it should be and causes no chain rub on my setup using the FD-R443 front mech.
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    Can't you just not use the trim? Just use the 2 extremes and the one in the middle? If, and it is a big if, it is set up correctly it will be exactly the same as no trim
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    Oh, and how the hell did the chain cleaner ruin your chain?
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    You take a day or two away and come back to this pile of utter nonsense.
    Stupid questions are fine. Stupid assertions start off entertaining, briefly become irritating and then transition to pathetic. Guess which phase I think we've reached?
  • Manc33
    Manc33 Posts: 2,157
    Chris Bass wrote:
    Can't you just not use the trim?

    No because it depends which way the chain came from onto the middle ring, at least the R440 shifter is like that, with its one trim on the middle ring.

    If the chain came from the outer ring onto the middle ring, it is trimmed down, however, if it changed from the granny to the middle, then its trimmed up. This means constantly having to remember the last front gear change, which could be half an hour ago.

    The best way I found was press the downshift lever really slightly, if there's play, its trimmed down, no play (or barely any) its trimmed up. What a pain it is though, glad to go back to the MTB shifter.

    Not sure if much more fettling will be done on this, the inner indexing screw is set so it just about changes to the granny ring, the outer indexing screw is set so it doesn't ping the FD back too fast nor does it have any risk of changing the chain right off the outer, it rubs very lightly on middle>32t, no rub on middle>11t or outer>11t, no rub in granny>32t... the only thing it might do now is over-shift to the middle ring from the outer when on bigger sprockets because of the sudden tension change. The other thing that causes this is the outer indexing screw in too far.

    Its just picky because of the setup it is, with a 28 tooth difference its a wonder the front mech isn't crying. :) I have heard of a setup that goes 1 tooth beyond this, a 53/38/24 - sod that. :lol:
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,241
    Two slight flaws in your reasoning:

    1. some mtb shifters have trim
    2. some road bikes can be set up without trim
    3. we haven't got a jet powered rocket pack

    Road bikes need trim more commonly due to chainstay length. However, if you are a chopper riding a shopping bike with a super stable chainstay to accommodate balloon tyres, its less likely. Did you learn about triangles at skool?

    I think you should try your hand at a medical meta-analysis, Manc33. I think you have a gift for distinguishing datum from data, and correlation from consequence.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,241
    I should also add that the trim function can help to limit chain rub when a 7 speed powerlink passes through a 10-speed front derailleur.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    First Aspect wrote:
    Two slight flaws in your reasoning:
    Well that's an improvement
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    MisterMuncher wrote:
    I can imagine him burning a boiled egg.
    my wife once asked me how you know when a fried egg is done!
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    First Aspect wrote:
    I should also add that the trim function can help to limit chain rub when a 7 speed powerlink passes through a 10-speed front derailleur.

    if it passes through without first wearing the edge down....ahh, i get it!
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    t4tomo wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Is this it?

    riderbikeee.jpg
    Did an Italian gentleman leave that in your bed?

    those are not UGO's wheels, superstar maybe... just look at the spoke tensions..
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    I haven't used flat bar road shifters but isn't there 4 clicks? one is the trim between smallest and middle ring, next one is the middle ring, then trim for middle to outer, then outer? that is how my old triple worked (its been a few years but used to run 105 5603) so to get from inner to middle just go two clicks and it'll cut out the trim?

    also, it isn't massively difficult to remember, did you just go up a hill? probably going from small to big, downhill or flat with tail wind, probably big to small? no?

    I think if anyone is crying out for single speed it may well be you, or maybe even take up running but i'd recommend shoes with velcro, those laces can be a right pain.
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • d00d4h
    d00d4h Posts: 67
    Chris Bass wrote:
    I think if anyone is crying out for single speed it may well be you, or maybe even take up running but i'd recommend shoes with velcro, those laces can be a right pain.

    Doesn't velcro fuse together over time?
  • gotwood25
    gotwood25 Posts: 314
    Just to confirm, I recently removed my chain for cleaning. I pushed the two powerlinks together and they came apart. That is all.
  • dnwhite88
    dnwhite88 Posts: 285
    Wait I thought the problem had changed from not coming apart to opening too easily-so this is just confirmation that they're a gimmick! :shock:
    "It never gets easier, you just go faster"
  • Man Of Lard
    Man Of Lard Posts: 903
    I, too, have recently had cause to both open and close a KMC Missing Link - it had been in use on the old chain for around 3000km where it had remained closed & the chain remained intact since the day it was installed.

    On Sunday evening, I opened the link, discarded the old chain, wiped the link clean, applied a spotlet of MS3 grease to the pins, fitted it to a new chain & closed it without any incident.

    I've just returned from a second incident-free ride since the non-drama of chain change (including naughtily reusing the Missing Link)
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    I can confirm my KMC 10speed link opened without tools at the weekend. It's not been opened since it went on last march so NO, IT DOESN'T FUSE!
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,829
    I think you two must be in cahoots with the chain manufacturers then, except Shimano, so you are part of the conspiracy.
    Oh wait hang on, I use split links and KMC chains without problems too. It would appear I too am part of the problem not the solution. Oh woe is me...
    Actually referring to an earlier post about 7 speed links on 11 speed chains that might cause the link to come apart as it would be loose. Similarly an 11 speed link on a 7 speed chain would be a bugger to fit and remove. So maybe the problem is that Mr 33 put the wrong link with the wrong chain and all his problems aren't imaginary.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • Man Of Lard
    Man Of Lard Posts: 903
    I used a Shimano chain...
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I'm about to change my chain. I think I'll use zip ties instead just so the chain doesn't bind.
  • Manc33
    Manc33 Posts: 2,157
    Mine isn't binding because I don't have one on the chain anymore.
  • penguin_of_death
    penguin_of_death Posts: 219
    Manc33 wrote:
    ...Then there's the obvious thing with drop bars - the brake lever can go sideways as well as forward and back, which I have always hated...

    Mine don't - they're SRAM
  • Manc33
    Manc33 Posts: 2,157
    Penguin of Death wrote:
    Manc33 wrote:
    ...Then there's the obvious thing with drop bars - the brake lever can go sideways as well as forward and back, which I have always hated...

    Mine don't - they're SRAM

    How do those not do a downshift every time you upshift? :lol:

    It only releases the downshift on the return, thats bloody clever but, I wouldn't use SRAM because it isn't Shimano. :oops:
  • jameses
    jameses Posts: 653
    Hang on a minute, we haven't even got started on the whole 'chain cleaner destroying my chain' comment yet and now you're starting on SRAM shifters?? One ridiculous argument at a time, please!
  • MisterMuncher
    MisterMuncher Posts: 1,302
    Campag don't either. Nor do MicroSHIFT if memory serves. And I still don't get how finger length comes into STI use.

    The real trick will be getting this thread stopped at 19 1/2 pages.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Manc33 wrote:
    Penguin of Death wrote:
    Manc33 wrote:
    ...Then there's the obvious thing with drop bars - the brake lever can go sideways as well as forward and back, which I have always hated...

    Mine don't - they're SRAM

    How do those not do a downshift every time you upshift? :lol:

    It only releases the downshift on the return, thats bloody clever but, I wouldn't use SRAM because it isn't Shimano. :oops:
    You wouldn't use SRAM because it's not Shimano? That's not a reason unless you tell us why you require Shimano. Since you dislike Shimano trim functions and their STI gear shifting in general, I'm curious as to your reasoning. I don't use SRAM but I have a few actual reasons. I'm very happy with Shimano having accepted the huge dangers of their brake/gear shift levers and also having miraculously mastered the immensly complex trim function. However none of my reasons for not using SRAM is that it's not Shimano. That would be idiotic (unless you can only buy Shimano locally, you're sponsored by Shimano or some similar reason).
  • Manc33
    Manc33 Posts: 2,157
    Shimano have been around a lot longer, is all.

    Comments like "First generation SRAM stuff tends to be not quite right" doesn't give me much hope.

    A chain cleaner ruined my chain because it rams stiff bristles right into the chain's rollers, but then KMC themselves say on their website "don't use a chain cleaner with a solvent" whatever that means, don't use one at all? The chain cleaner is stuffing bristles in so hard I think it is loosening the chain, well I know it is because it didn't change gear as well afterwards.

    Got a KMC on now and the chain cleaning machine isn't going anywhere near it, neither is its "missing link".

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