Reasonably priced Italian steel stallions

ugo.santalucia

I've been on an Italian forum recently and they seem a lot more concerned about weight and less about aerodynamics... which is somewhat to be expected from a nation of climbers, rather than time triallists.
A bicycle over 6.8 Kg is considered a stone and a light set of wheels means < 1.4 Kg... anything over is considered a brick.
The most raved about wheels are the good ole Campagnolo Neutron (if a bit heavy) and the ultra light Spada Stiletto (1260 grams).... then the DA CL 24 and the Fulcrum Zero.
Someone failed to understand how I can use a front disc caliper that weighs 200 grams... and a guy said he can't even type 200 grams on the keyboard without feeling sick...

So there, you know what to take to the Dolomites with you...

ddraver

hee hee

to steal from another thread, the itaian guys that ride in our group were talking about how Brands are viewed in Italy. They claimed Bianchi were the equivalent of Fiat and that Colnagos were made for fat, rich Americans trying to buy a fake bit of Italy. The discerning Italian Cyclist rides a Pinerello.

You could imagine that those opinions caused a long argume....i mean discussion!

Could you maybe start that thread over there Ugo?

meanredspider

It's funny these national beliefs. I stopped by a Dutch bike shop recently after damaging a tyre and asked what they stocked in 25C. The shop keeper looked at me like I was a dangerous lunatic, pointing out that 23C were soooo much better and, no, they didn't stock any 25C and never had. Such was his response, I didn't even try discussing it - I'd have been better off asking if the convent stocked condoms.

alex222

Interesting stuff. Some more national insights please.

ugo.santalucia

23 all the way for the italians too...

Like everywhere, there are a number of lunatic that appreciate weirdness and I even got compliments for my Frankenbike (although a guy said he was scared of it).

Re. Pinarello-Colnago-Bianchi... I think it's about what is en vogue at the moment... one thing I learned is that Mr Vetta can build you a Columbus Life frame that weighs 1400 grams for 700 Euro and that compares quite well with the locals over here... I always thought they fancy themselves a bit more like artists than artisans...

term1te

Well, I'll be riding the Grandfondo Stelvio in June on a stone with a couple of bricks. I was going to take my Italian bike for fat, rich, Americans, but the gearing isn't up to it.

ddraver

23 v 25 is a lot to do with EU roads/bike paths vs UK roads too...

meanredspider

ddraver wrote:

23 v 25 is a lot to do with EU roads/bike paths vs UK roads too...

Yup - but there's plenty of cobbly bits around Amsterdam - added to which, the Dutch are taller (heavier) than your average European (or any nationality - height rather than weight)

ddraver

True - I confess MRS, I have not shared your experience. 25c tyres are commonly available in the fietswinkles of Zuid-Holland

meanredspider

ddraver wrote:

True - I confess MRS, I have not shared your experience. 25c tyres are commonly available in the fietswinkles of Zuid-Holland

Maybe it's a N Holland thing. I was really quite shocked by his response.

ugo.santalucia

Bianchi used to be revered in Italy in the 60s, 70s and 80s, when they were made rather than manufactured.

All the greats rode on Bianchi at some point: Coppi, Gimondi and Pantani

mm1

I am sad that my Italian cousins ride foreign bikes (Giant and Cannondale), though they once lent me a steel Moser with threadbare tubs when I was without a bike. Always terrifying trying (and failing) to follow them downhill and they climb better than me too. They don't understand why we ride so many TTs, but are always happy to sit on my wheel on the flat.

The lightweight thing is interesting, saw lots of aftermarket Tiso stuff that I've never seen in the shops here the last time I was over there (just checked and Tiso don't seem to make derailleurs anymore, when they did reminded me of the old Paul's components mechs if anyone remembers them).

Although my Dad was from Dario Pegoretti's home town, I've never seen anyone riding a Pegoretti over there. Steel, apart from utility bikes seems to be a thing of the past.

ugo.santalucia

mm1 wrote:

Although my Dad was from Dario Pegoretti's home town, I've never seen anyone riding a Pegoretti over there. Steel, apart from utility bikes seems to be a thing of the past.

There is a market for steel, but rightly so, nobody seems to be bothered about Pegoretti or Bertoletti, as clearly you can get the same stuff built for a third of the price.
Different story is over here or in the US, where Pegoretti becomes competitive in price with the local offerings from the various Donhou, Roberts etc...

Steel is a bit like olive oil, which in Italy varies from 3 Euro to 100 Euro per litre... you can spend as much as you want to spend and the difference is always tiny

Moonbiker

Do people there pay £200 for a bike fit or £80 for cleat alignment session or its that only a Uk thing?

sloppyschleckonds

Moonbiker wrote:

Do people there pay £200 for a bike fit or £80 for cleat alignment session or its that only a Uk thing?

What about energy supplements?

ddraver

150Eur for my bike fit in NL :oops:

not all that impressed either

ugo.santalucia

Moonbiker wrote:

Do people there pay £200 for a bike fit or £80 for cleat alignment session or its that only a Uk thing?

In Italy a bike fit was traditionally done in the process of selling you a frame... in time this has become more and more sophisticated, but it's still free of charge in most shops and part of the process. However, there is less price matching and online buying, especially for full bikes... probably because shops offer a better service and they are in the end good value for money... fewer chain shops, more independent shops.
Over here, people would take advantage by getting a bike fit and then buying the stuff cheaper online, I'm afraid... you just have to look at the panic buying when something is on for sale. It's nothing to do with the people and a lot to do with the endless supply of deals and bargains

ugo.santalucia

A very Italian thing to do is to gather at the bike shop on the way back from a ride and brag... a bit like here we do at the cafe' but with less pork and more bragging...

I remember popping into the local shop (Tessiore in Borgofranco d'Ivrea, highly recommended) to get a new pair of mitts a few years back and finding a group of local cyclists bragging about their 130 Km ride with ascent to the ski resort of Cervinia, problem is I also had gone up to Cervinia that morning and I am pretty sure I had not spotted them coming down as I was going up... the road is a dead end...

Anonymous

I assumed our love of 25mm tyres was down to the growth of cycling in the UK and our obsession with 'comfortable' road bikes to cycle short distances on.

I can well imagine that Italians would not want to spoil the look of their bikes with fat ugly tyres though, no matter how good they were.
Do Italians shun some of the less attractive 'comfort' bikes for style reasons?

Another thread is saying Americans like kick stands :shock:

ugo.santalucia

Carbonator wrote:

Do Italians shun some of the less attractive 'comfort' bikes for style reasons?

They do, won't see many sportive type bikes... but then again, sportives are not like they are here. Here you start in a bunch of 20 and within 3 miles you are on your own... there you start in a bunch of 1000 and you stay in a bunch for most of the day... they are races after all... with teams, domestiques, captains, support cars and lots and lots of drugs...
Once I stopped to fix the computer magnet that was too far from the receiver and missed the time gate to climb the Col del Prel... that means I lost about half an hour in less than 50 miles... basically instead of averaging 25 mph, I ended up on my own averaging less than 20

keezx

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I've been on an Italian forum recently and they seem a lot more concerned about weight and less about aerodynamics... which is somewhat to be expected from a nation of climbers, rather than time triallists.
A bicycle over 6.8 Kg is considered a stone and a light set of wheels means < 1.4 Kg... anything over is considered a brick.
The most raved about wheels are the good ole Campagnolo Neutron (if a bit heavy) and the ultra light Spada Stiletto (1260 grams).... then the DA CL 24 and the Fulcrum Zero.
Someone failed to understand how I can use a front disc caliper that weighs 200 grams... and a guy said he can't even type 200 grams on the keyboard without feeling sick...

So there, you know what to take to the Dolomites with you...

This year I intend to attack the Dolomites with a stone and 2 bricks.....

graeme_s-2

ugo.santalucia wrote:

They do, won't see many sportive type bikes... but then again, sportives are not like they are here. Here you start in a bunch of 20 and within 3 miles you are on your own... there you start in a bunch of 1000 and you stay in a bunch for most of the day... they are races after all... with teams, domestiques, captains, support cars and lots and lots of drugs...

When we were in a taxi on the way to the station at the end of our honeymoon in Desenzano del Garda the taxi was stopped by a motorbike outrider as we approached a roundabout. The other roundabout exits were also blocked off and then a peloton pelted through followed by support cars, but the cyclists were a mix of normal looking types rather than pros and they were all wearing different kit (not obvious teams). I couldn't quite work it out at the time, but have since realised it must have been a sportive Italian-style.

Manc33

Spaghetti wheels. 8)

ugo.santalucia

Graeme_S wrote:

When we were in a taxi on the way to the station at the end of our honeymoon in Desenzano del Garda the taxi was stopped by a motorbike outrider as we approached a roundabout. The other roundabout exits were also blocked off and then a peloton pelted through followed by support cars, but the cyclists were a mix of normal looking types rather than pros and they were all wearing different kit (not obvious teams). I couldn't quite work it out at the time, but have since realised it must have been a sportive Italian-style.

The Granfondo circuit is an interesting one: there are folks who make a living out of racing Granfondo... often former PROs with a past too dodgy to be acceptable anywhere else... a few years ago Raimondas Rumsas was the superstar and then another guy called Carmine Stefanile... a 40+ individual who used to rack up wins and prize money, until was found with 8 banned substances in a urine test.
There are teams and sponsors who pay for their equipment and races and top contenders even get a fairly decent salary.

The races themselves are fairly nervous... I remember having a guy continuously shouting "close the gap" in between insults, and blasphemies... it's all quite entertaining...

Anonymous

I must go to Italy properly soon.
I drove across from France for the day once and I found the people/atmosphere/culture (as much as you can absorb in a few hours) very different and refreshing compared to France.

We planned to holiday there because of that day but it never happened for some reason

Our Italian friend raves about 'Pocket Coffee' amongst other things.
She worked closely with/for Mr Ferrero years ago though, so maybe she is biased.
I quite like them and was both annoyed, and impressed that they only sell them for part of the year (not the part during which I was there )

ugo.santalucia

Pocket coffee... nice!

poppit

We'll be there in September, riding Pinarellos 8)

Matthewfalle

Abruzzo mountains every summer for me. Can't be beaten. Mahooooosif climbs, enormous descents, wonderful food, coffee wine and women.

Basically I've always found that they don't care what you are riding so long as you are friendly, smile and get a good pace on. None of the pants clique British club mentality.

Heading across with work for a couple of weeks with the Alpini in May, so that should be a giggle as well.

Spiffing stuff Quentin.

cycleclinic

Italian cycling sounds vain like cycling everywhere. I don't own any bike below 6.8kg my lightest is 1kg heavier. When I was in calbria last summer found it difficult to find a local club. The lbs was a bit vague there didn't seem to be one which I can't believe. I would not mind doing a grand fondo but without the drugs that is simply pathetic.

Matthewfalle

thecycleclinic wrote:

Italian cycling sounds vain like cycling everywhere. I don't own any bike below 6.8kg my lightest is 1kg heavier. When I was in calbrian last summer found it difficult to find a local club. The lbs was a bit vague there didn't seem to be one which I can't believe. I would not mind doing a grand fond but without the drugs that is simply pathetic.

Vain, yes. Clique, rude and stuck up its own backside and thinking that you have to "prove yourself" - nah.

British clubs are unique, in not a good way.

And yes, through random reasons I have ridden in most parts where even Carlsberg won't take you .....

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

Italian cycling sounds vain like cycling everywhere. I don't own any bike below 6.8kg my lightest is 1kg heavier. When I was in calbrian last summer found it difficult to find a local club. The lbs was a bit vague there didn't seem to be one which I can't believe. I would not mind doing a grand fond but without the drugs that is simply pathetic.

A granfondo is a race, with or without drugs you would not be a contender... you lack watts, a team and a support car. You can still take part... I did a handful of them, never thought I could finish anywhere near the front, in fact you won't even be able to start at the front and by the time you clip in the top guys are already 1 Km ahead of you, but who cares? Where else do you get the chance to do a "race" on 100+ Km of roads? By the time you get to the first feed zone, the peloton type race is over and it becomes more like a normal sportive for 3/4 of the people in there... at the front I'd assume they are still pushing 40+ Kmh