Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

cycleclinic

One thing about the good years, the rear tyre absorbed 35g of sealant. No wonder there was none now I have removed the tyre. Obviously they are not lined. Tyres without lining a bound to do this.

cycleclinic

Gp5000tl tyres in 25mm now on the commuter.

On 20mm internal width rims the tyres are 26mm wide. They felt good riding home but spongy is the only way I could describe how they felt. Not dead or slow and not plush like Vitoria pave tubular. Spongy, it rather odd, not bad not just weird.

zefs

How do they compare to Yksion Pro UST on road feel and mounting on the rim?
The spongy feel you mention might change as they break in, but if it rides like GP4000S2 with tubs I will pass (found them stiff/harsh).

ugo.santalucia

zefs wrote:

How do they compare to Yksion Pro UST on road feel and mounting on the rim?
The spongy feel you mention might change as they break in, but if it rides like GP4000S2 with tubs I will pass (found them stiff/harsh).

I had the Yksion Elite all road tubeless 30 mm... they were shit in all departments...

Hope it helps

zefs

That tire is entirely different to Yksion Pro UST (despite sharing a similar name) but asking how it compares to GP5000.

cycleclinic

The yskion UST is a rehashed hutchindon fusion 5 performance as far as I can tell. Did 35 km on them this morning. Grip is like the Mavic but the Mavic tyre did not feel spongy. The conti do seem to have low rolling resistance, so does the Mavic. Its not as comfortable as the Mavic but this conti is the 25mm tyre. I had the 28mm Mavic tyres so the comparison is not that fair.

I think I like it but it's that spongy feeling it really noticeable but I suppose I'll get used to it. If it only does 3000km then the Mavic Hutchinson tyres will be a better buy. If it can do 6000km for me it will rival an IRC tyre. Time will tell.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Having just had my first summer of GP4000S IIs, I found I had to inflate the 28mm to ~85/95psi, at least +10psi more than I ran the 28mm Grand Sport Races to get rid of the squishy (spongy?) feeling. Typically ~92Kg for me and the Cube with bits like 1.5Kg of water etc.

Maybe the GP5000s need more air than the average tubeless 25s to roll well?

cycleclinic

I have them at 80 psi. I think the spongy feeling comes from the damping layer in the casing.

I think it's a summer tyre. I even picked a nice route this morning. I give this tyre a couple of weeks at most. I'm packing a tube and a boot as I am expecting a bang.



I'm not having much luck at the moment.

lincolndave

thecycleclinic wrote:

I have them at 80 psi. I think the spongy feeling comes from the damping layer in the casing.

I think it's a summer tyre. I even picked a nice route this morning. I give this tyre a couple of weeks at most. I'm packing a tube and a boot as I am expecting a bang.



I'm not having much luck at the moment.

Is that tyre the new conti Malcolm?

cycleclinic

yes it is. nice tyre to ride on just not very robust or I am unlucky. I'll put another front on and see how it does.

christimson

Quick update on the IRC Roadlites.

I've got 1500 miles on them now as I intend to run them right through the winter. Very pleased with them and hardly a mark on them. They seem much more durable than the Schwalbe pro ones which I have on the summer bike which seem to develop cuts wherever you go.

sloppyschleckonds

christimson wrote:

Quick update on the IRC Roadlites.

I've got 1500 miles on them now as I intend to run them right through the winter. Very pleased with them and hardly a mark on them. They seem much more durable than the Schwalbe pro ones which I have on the summer bike which seem to develop cuts wherever you go.

A £50 tyre is abit pricey to run through winter, how many miles you planing on doing?

christimson

I ride in all weathers so don't want to be fixing a puncture in the freezing pissing rain if I can help it. These tyres seem to be the answer.

cycleclinic

there not £50. There are cheaper tubeless tyres hutchinson for example which ride fine (I actually like them) but they cut more and wear out more quickly. So in of £ per mile the IRC tyres win. In terms of intial outlay the hutchinson's win. You can't have everything.

Something the higher price for a product is justified.

ugo.santalucia

christimson wrote:

I ride in all weathers so don't want to be fixing a puncture in the freezing pissing rain if I can help it. These tyres seem to be the answer.

In which case the best is a fairly puncture resistant tyre that is easy to take on and off. Tubeless will fix most small punctures, but when it doesn't, then you are in for a lot of swearing and if it's cold and wet as you say, you'd be cursing them.

cycleclinic

Plugs... If have only three occasions where I have been swearing with tubekes. Once before I knew about plugs and had to fit a tube and had to fit active on a cold Jan night.

Second time when I forgot almost everything bar a tube and a pump. No levers. I pulled the tyre of though by hand and fitted the tube and pumped it up only to find i left a Bit of flint in the tyre.if I had packed plugs I would have been fine.

Final time i hope with that maxisis padrone recently and I got a huge gash. The tyre though is such a loose fit after I bashed out the valve with a Bit of flint fitting the tube was easy. I carried a tube that day as I just feared disaster with this tyre. Plugs acted as a makeshift boot.

All in all having to put in only three tubes in over the past few years is not so bad.

I forgot about the time where I rode a road bike on a night MTB off road group ride a got a puncture but no tube, plugs...kind of asking for trouble.

You can see most problems are user error. Avoid those and you'll be fine. Also change valve cores when they get sticky and clean out cable stems with a spoke (laser) to ensure you can air and sealant in when you need to.

bobones

ugo.santalucia wrote:

christimson wrote:

I ride in all weathers so don't want to be fixing a puncture in the freezing pissing rain if I can help it. These tyres seem to be the answer.

In which case the best is a fairly puncture resistant tyre that is easy to take on and off. Tubeless will fix most small punctures, but when it doesn't, then you are in for a lot of swearing and if it's cold and wet as you say, you'd be cursing them.

I've been in this situation a few times: I've tried worms, but they would pop out so I ended up having to fit a tube, which wasn't as hard or messy as I thought it would be. Still a PITA though, and not all wheel/tyre combinations would be as easy.

I like the idea of worms, but I have never been able to get them to work for me, so a few months ago, I bought some Dynaplugs, which are like worms, but with a little conical pointed wedge that prevents them being forced back out of the tyre with air pressure.

Last Tuesday I picked up small a side-wall gash that wouldn't seal so I had the opportunity to test them out for the first time, and they were so easy to use and worked brilliantly. I just popped one into the hole, re-inflated and continued on my way. At home, I added more sealant and the repair looks to be permanent with no leaks. Highly recommended if you don't get on with worms or want something a bit easier to use. This is the model I bought.

Along with the usual emergency toolkit, I would also recommend carrying a spare valve core (and removal tool) in case of blockage, a small knife for cutting excess rubber from plug, and a small pair of pliers for removing tight valve nut in case you do need to fit a tube as a last resort. Actually, last resort would be stuffing tyre with grass, but I haven't needed to go there yet!

ugo.santalucia

bobones wrote:

Along with the usual emergency toolkit, I would also recommend carrying a spare valve core (and removal tool) in case of blockage, a small knife for cutting excess rubber from plug, and a small pair of pliers for removing tight valve nut in case you do need to fit a tube as a last resort. Actually, last resort would be stuffing tyre with grass, but I haven't needed to go there yet!

At the peak of my "tubeless puncture" paranoia, I took the habit of carrying a spare tyre on long Audax rides across remote areas of Wales. A folded Vittoria Corsa open tub packs so flat that fitted nicely in my seat pack. Now that I am back to clinchers I have reduced that requirement to a Park tool tyre boot... so on reflection, if the goal of tubeless was to travel lighter, it never really worked for me.

It seems it is not working for you either, if you have to carry half a garage worth of extra tools and spares

bobones

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bobones wrote:

Along with the usual emergency toolkit, I would also recommend carrying a spare valve core (and removal tool) in case of blockage, a small knife for cutting excess rubber from plug, and a small pair of pliers for removing tight valve nut in case you do need to fit a tube as a last resort. Actually, last resort would be stuffing tyre with grass, but I haven't needed to go there yet!

At the peak of my "tubeless puncture" paranoia, I took the habit of carrying a spare tyre on long Audax rides across remote areas of Wales. A folded Vittoria Corsa open tub packs so flat that fitted nicely in my seat pack. Now that I am back to clinchers I have reduced that requirement to a Park tool tyre boot... so on reflection, if the goal of tubeless was to travel lighter, it never really worked for me.

It seems it is not working for you either, if you have to carry half a garage worth of extra tools and spares

I'm actually very happy with tubeless now, and that was the first puncture that I've had to repair on the road in over a year (about 10k miles), and I only needed to flip my bike over to find the hole, not remove a wheel and tyre.

I did have a spate of non-sealing punctures and worm problems a while back that tested my faith, but I tried a few different things, stuck with it, and I'm not going back.

I have always carried tools to cover virtually any eventuality, but even so, everything I need fits in a case that I carry in my middle jersey pocket. I know a few old timers that carry a spare tyre under their saddles, but that's just a step too far for me.

ugo.santalucia

bobones wrote:

I know a few old timers that carry a spare tyre under their saddles, but that's just a step too far for me.

As I said, that was the high point of my paranoia... then again, the road that connects the Elan Valley to Aberystwyth is fairly remote... if you get stranded there it is a very very long walk to anywhere... even just to a spot where you have mobile signal or 4G

cycleclinic

Bobones you have tried some tyre plugs just not the right ones. The small thin Geninuine innoviations plugs sometime blow out for me too. Its a bit like saying I have ate a potatoe and saying all potates taste the same or cook in the same way.

Dynaplugs are just to expensive for me given I have no issue with the better plugs I now use.

The first two calamities in my last post where before I knew about/started using tyre plugs.

I have over 40000km on road tubeless tyres now. I have lost count. It could 50,000km.

On a long ride I do pack a spare tyre in the panniers as it quicker swapping at the side of the road if the a proper rpoblem than walking.

bobones

I have tried a few different sizes of worms without success and frankly have wasted a whole load of time with them, but if they work for you or others, then fine...

I find the Dynaplugs far easier to use, they just work and I have confidence in them not to blow out. I'll be unlucky if I have to use more than one of these plugs a year so they're not really all that expensive.

If you stock them, they will sell!

zefs

@bobones If you need pliers to remove the tubeless valve nut you are overtightening it. It's there to only hold the plastic ring which is what actually seals the whole. Also it can damage the the valve by pulling it downwards if too tight.
If you remove the nut you will notice that there is no leak.

bobones

zefs wrote:

@bobones If you need pliers to remove the tubeless valve nut you are overtightening it. It's there to only hold the plastic ring which is what actually seals the whole. Also it can damage the the valve by pulling it downwards if too tight.
If you remove the nut you will notice that there is no leak.

Sometimes cold, wet hands can't grip well enough even if they aren't stuck or done up too tightly. I've always carried a mini-leatherman type tool which has a knife and pliers attached and used the pliers for pulling loose derailleur cables out on the road so it's a good one to have in the kit tubeless or not.

cycleclinic

zefs if you leave the nut loose enough that it can be undone by hand it can rattle loose and you get a leak. How do I know this you may wonder?

Bobones it not just the size of the plugs but how tacky it is. Not all plugs are the same. It's like saying all potatoes are the same. anyway. Dynaplug kits costs too much. Some of the kits are over £40. I cant sell something like that when there is a cheaper alternative that works.

zefs

There is a video from Mavic recommending not using tools for the valve nut just tighten by hand, but if it's a case of cold/wet conditions then I guess you can use the tool. It didn't happen to come loose/rattle on the Mavic valves for me.

cycleclinic

I tighten by hand where did I say use tools. I just tightening by hand in the shop is so tight I cant undo it without pilers at the side of the road. I had to do that last night. The GP5000 TL goes hiss quickly and the the tyre unseats on the velocity rim (building new wheels today for the bike that retain the tyre properly so I can plug the tyre next time) and I had to put a tube in. Its a good thing I had packed pliers as without them I would have been quite stuck.

If it the collar is done so it can be lossened by hand later as it been on there a while it probably too loose and can rattle loose. If its done proper hand tight then it should not rattle loose but pack pliers if you have rims where the tyre is retained without pressure.

zefs

Not the case with my Mavic UST wheels, so I guess it's a rim/tire combination issue.
I can actually remove the collar and there is no visible leak.

bobones

I sometimes struggle just to loosen the valve lock nut without pliers because sealant has got in there and cemented it stuck. Definitely worth carrying a set IMO, but particularly with tubeless.

Malcolm, to demonstrate the correct technique, can you shoot a video of you repairing a smooth road tyre with one of your worms (no glue) followed by inflating it to 6 or 7 bar and then leaving it to sit for a few minutes? Mine always push their way out no matter how tacky the worm is, and looking at other forums, I am not the only person with this problem.

BTW the Dynaplug kit I bought was £22.60 with 4 plugs so a good bit shy of £40. Extra plugs are less than £2 each, which is expensive compared to worms, but you can't really argue that they aren't easier to use and much less likely to work loose. I have used one plug since I got them so the cost is insignificant to the other cycling related stuff I buy. I have no confidence in worms, but I'm 100% sure these will stay in.

cycleclinic

There is a video on my website. Its been there for a year or so. not the one youve been looking at a newer one.

A review from a german mag and why I am not bothering with dynaplugs. The racer kit is £40. The smaller ultralite kit is £20ish but has smaller plugs I think.

https://www.mtb-news.de/news/2018/12/18 ... eich-test/

6/7 bar now there's your problem. some plugged holes will take that pressure but not all. Nearly of all the holes that dont seal that I get can be permentaly filled with a plug either 1.5mm or 3.5mm thick. I have had only one or two where the big plug got pushed out. The one I can remember back in april got me home (90 miles in the dark) but the tyre was scrap as the plug would not hold. Some holes are simply to big to be plugged long term at 70 psi. Then the plug is a get you home thing and the tyre is scrap. I would not try and repair a tyre that a plug cannot seal at 70 psi as the tyre is compromised.

I think your expecting too much from a repair and want all holes no matter how big to repairable (as you no doubt want to save the expensive tyre). Even if they are with dynaplugs I would not, as the risk of the tyre bulging and failing mid ride maybe small but real and potentially dangerous. If all you are getting are big holes then you are unlucky. a hole bigger than 10mm is generally not going to be repaired long term. Smaller holes should be plugable long term if that is a word. Given dynaplugs are meant to only fix holes up to 6mm (I know maxalami will do holes 8-10mm without issue) maybe it how your inserting them. the video should address that. If not practice on a scrap tyre.