United Kingdom of What?
Comments
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Damage would have already been done by then so it matters not whether he stays elected or not after this independence referendum's damage has been done.0
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VTech wrote:bdu98252 wrote:VTech wrote:jawooga wrote:markhewitt1978 wrote:Yes they can any country can use any currency.
Problem is they'll have a central bank over which they have no say.
I'm probably being thick, but can you give an example of when that might be a problem?
I can't imagine the Scottish economy being significantly different from the north of England in terms of industry, foreign investment etc, so I'm not sure strategic decisions made by the Bank of England on interest rates would impact Scotland more than our regions in England?
This is one of the issue. People on the whole have no idea of the implications.
They can have a pound but on what basis? How is it traded. Who would trade it ?
The only people trading decently would be out for huge profit which drops the value. Then you have the penny traders after huge profits.
I couldn't invest in Scotland because of uncertainty (not in a literal sense) and the same goes for foreign investment which will happen but as deals bad for the Scottish people as the government sell bonds and land at poor value to cover over the mess they have caused.
This is going to be bad for is all. For Scottish who will be broke for several generations and for the English who will lose placement on the major security councils.
Talking about wether the yes/no vote goes to either side is pointless really. It's now just a matter of time anyway.
99.99999% of people have absolutely no idea how bad this is going to be for the next 50-75 years.
The same happened with Jamaica and they did reall well, didn't they ?????
It is not for the voters to understand every role in the finance and government sector prior to making a decision and to suggest that a population cannot make a decision in their best interests effectively renders democracy pointless and we all know what the alternative is. This is a vote on governance and some of the figures quoted today are laughable. 2.6billion drop in value in Scottish companies costing every person in Scotland £400. For a start this has cost shareholders and this will continue to happen to companies in the UK as a whole until the UK government actually spell out who they intend to organise independence post a Yes vote. The volatility is primarily caused by the UK government wish to show all Scots that they are on a precipice and voting Yes will see them penniless forever. Whoooooooooooooooooooh. It really is like a children's story involving ghosts.
Im with you but the problem is that after a yes vote you will have a government who "need" to show what is possible and that the decision to break away was correct. This is identical to jamaica and other countries who have gone through similar.
The problem isn't the people with a lack of understanding, its the money makers who will rape the country for all it has and the people in charge having no backup and therefor making bad choices.
Scotland has lots of valuable land to businesses and forget transport, people have cars and will travel, its about tax first and foremost.
This is how jamaica did it.
They gained independence.
The government lost a lot of funding.
Traders bought and sold both currency and natural resources.
The government lost huge sums of wealth as traders took the money.
The government sold land to the boxite companies with poor contracts due to having their back against the wall.
These companies ate away mountains and left canyons and graveyards across the island without cleaning it up which has lost thousands of people their homes and caused damage that will take centuries to clear up.
50 years on and the country has got one of the highest murder rates per capita, I can go to jamaica and commit almost any crime and as long as I have a few dollars in my pocket I can still catch the next flight back to the UK and disappear into the night.
Now we all know, scotland is a country mile from jamaica but the principles will be the same due to the officials thinking short term and not having the benefit of a lifetime vision. It is without this lifetime vision that the problems will in fact become prominent, bad choices will be made and scotts will suffer.
The fact is, it isn't going to effect me, not in the slightest, it probably won't effect any of us here in a huge way but it will our kids and grand kids.
Some will argue with me on my points above but mark my words, you will see contracts made by the government or people in power that will make your eyes water.
So much for Jamaica, what about some of the other countries that have gained independence from the UK.
Like;
New Zealand
Australia
Cyprus
Israel
Egypt
Kenya
Malaysia
Kuwait
Canada
Are they all basket cases too?
Some of the uninformed crap on here is worthy of the Daily
Mail.0 -
fredmac wrote:VTech wrote:bdu98252 wrote:VTech wrote:jawooga wrote:markhewitt1978 wrote:Yes they can any country can use any currency.
Problem is they'll have a central bank over which they have no say.
I'm probably being thick, but can you give an example of when that might be a problem?
I can't imagine the Scottish economy being significantly different from the north of England in terms of industry, foreign investment etc, so I'm not sure strategic decisions made by the Bank of England on interest rates would impact Scotland more than our regions in England?
This is one of the issue. People on the whole have no idea of the implications.
They can have a pound but on what basis? How is it traded. Who would trade it ?
The only people trading decently would be out for huge profit which drops the value. Then you have the penny traders after huge profits.
I couldn't invest in Scotland because of uncertainty (not in a literal sense) and the same goes for foreign investment which will happen but as deals bad for the Scottish people as the government sell bonds and land at poor value to cover over the mess they have caused.
This is going to be bad for is all. For Scottish who will be broke for several generations and for the English who will lose placement on the major security councils.
Talking about wether the yes/no vote goes to either side is pointless really. It's now just a matter of time anyway.
99.99999% of people have absolutely no idea how bad this is going to be for the next 50-75 years.
The same happened with Jamaica and they did reall well, didn't they ?????
It is not for the voters to understand every role in the finance and government sector prior to making a decision and to suggest that a population cannot make a decision in their best interests effectively renders democracy pointless and we all know what the alternative is. This is a vote on governance and some of the figures quoted today are laughable. 2.6billion drop in value in Scottish companies costing every person in Scotland £400. For a start this has cost shareholders and this will continue to happen to companies in the UK as a whole until the UK government actually spell out who they intend to organise independence post a Yes vote. The volatility is primarily caused by the UK government wish to show all Scots that they are on a precipice and voting Yes will see them penniless forever. Whoooooooooooooooooooh. It really is like a children's story involving ghosts.
Im with you but the problem is that after a yes vote you will have a government who "need" to show what is possible and that the decision to break away was correct. This is identical to jamaica and other countries who have gone through similar.
The problem isn't the people with a lack of understanding, its the money makers who will rape the country for all it has and the people in charge having no backup and therefor making bad choices.
Scotland has lots of valuable land to businesses and forget transport, people have cars and will travel, its about tax first and foremost.
This is how jamaica did it.
They gained independence.
The government lost a lot of funding.
Traders bought and sold both currency and natural resources.
The government lost huge sums of wealth as traders took the money.
The government sold land to the boxite companies with poor contracts due to having their back against the wall.
These companies ate away mountains and left canyons and graveyards across the island without cleaning it up which has lost thousands of people their homes and caused damage that will take centuries to clear up.
50 years on and the country has got one of the highest murder rates per capita, I can go to jamaica and commit almost any crime and as long as I have a few dollars in my pocket I can still catch the next flight back to the UK and disappear into the night.
Now we all know, scotland is a country mile from jamaica but the principles will be the same due to the officials thinking short term and not having the benefit of a lifetime vision. It is without this lifetime vision that the problems will in fact become prominent, bad choices will be made and scotts will suffer.
The fact is, it isn't going to effect me, not in the slightest, it probably won't effect any of us here in a huge way but it will our kids and grand kids.
Some will argue with me on my points above but mark my words, you will see contracts made by the government or people in power that will make your eyes water.
So much for Jamaica, what about some of the other countries that have gained independence from the UK.
Like;
New Zealand
Australia
Cyprus
Israel
Egypt
Kenya
Malaysia
Kuwait
Canada
Are they all basket cases too?
Some of the uninformed crap on here is worthy of the Daily
Mail.
I love it when people argue with daft responses. There are differences in the ways countries vote and also more deeply, the way corruption has spread. Some of the countries you list are worthless, I have more money in my bank than some of them countries !!!
I won't go into each one as this is simply a forum thread but Kuwait and canada have some of the largest reserves of oil on planet earth. Australia is rich in diamonds and minerals as is new zealand, Isreal is backed by every banking system on earth and the others have huge corruption and debt.
Scotland does not have the fortunes of the above in that its reserves are incredibly low, in fact companies are pulling out as it becomes less viable. It does however have masses of land which can be offloaded and of course the ability to set tax breaks for foreign investment which on the front of it looks awesome but the back of it looks like the payout the UK government gave to Rover as it sapped the country dry of cash-flow.
Ive no problem when people argue with me but this really is a subject I have a half decent understanding so when you bring an argument, at least let it have weight otherwise you may help those undecided to vote yes and cause even more damage
Living MY dream.0 -
The countries I have listed are worthless but it was you that compared Scotland to Jamaica!
Scotland's reserves are "incredibly low" if you don't count 20 billion barrels of oil, it's financial sector (home to the biggest asset management company in Europe), the Whisky industry (£4.25 billion in exports), tourism, farming the gaming industry. I could go on.0 -
Step away fredmac. Pointless arguing with a guy who is an expert in fuxk all but believes he's right ALL of the time. I still don't understand why he keeps on coming onto a cycling forum when he has no interest in the sport at all.0
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thegreatdivide wrote:Step away fredmac. Pointless arguing with a guy who is an expert in fuxk all but believes he's right ALL of the time. I still don't understand why he keeps on coming onto a cycling forum when he has no interest in the sport at all.
Yes, should have known anyone who thinks that New Zealand is rich in diamonds is a rocket.0 -
Follow your Pied Piper and be off with you.0 -
Instead of spuriously comparing developing and 3rd world countries with Scotland, why not compare countries small populations and good or high standards of living.
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Denmark
Iceland
Monaco
Eire
New Zealand
Holland (Bit high at 15m but still)
Costa Rica...seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I now hope it is a Yes vote. If No wins by a narrow majority this will be a running sore for years. Regardless of dividing the UK, Salmond would appear to have divided Scotland.
After independence I know the economy of the rUK as well as Scotland would be hit but I'm sure we would recover. As for Scotland, it would be much tougher, but hey, they would be a foreign country and I would no longer give a flying fornication.
I wonder who they would blame for all their ills when they can no longer blame the hated English.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:I now hope it is a Yes vote. If No wins by a narrow majority this will be a running sore for years. Regardless of dividing the UK, Salmond would appear to have divided Scotland.
After independence I know the economy of the rUK as well as Scotland would be hit but I'm sure we would recover. As for Scotland, it would be much tougher, but hey, they would be a foreign country and I would no longer give a flying fornication.
I wonder who they would blame for all their ills when they can no longer blame the hated English.
Sorry to piddle on your flying fornications Bally but I have yet to hear any nationalistic argument based on prejudice.
Maybe if those silly f*ckers the BNP and UKIP and those other right wing twits who want to exit Europe weren;t making headway daan souf, we wouldn't be on the verge of breaking up the union - ironic when you think about it.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Perhaps you should get out more Pina?0
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Ballysmate wrote:Perhaps you should get out more Pina?
Just like there are those Alf Garnet types in Engerland, pretty sure there are some "Jock almighty's" but they are the minority aren't they?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
You're right in one respect. I would equate SNP with BNP. Both odious.0
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I think you're wrong about the SNP. Look at the reception Farage got when he came to Scotland. People up here recognise bigots and xenophobes.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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pinarello001 wrote:I think you're wrong about the SNP. Look at the reception Farage got when he came to Scotland. People up here recognise bigots and xenophobes.
It appears so and then flock to his SNP banner.0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:Step away fredmac. Pointless arguing with a guy who is an expert in fuxk all but believes he's right ALL of the time. I still don't understand why he keeps on coming onto a cycling forum when he has no interest in the sport at all.
Again, I love the reply.
Using anger to try and win an argument. It's a class act.
I compared Jamaica simply because it has a decent chance of being similar to scotland. Jamaica has a thriving rum business as Scotland does whisky.
The point is that Scotland will be worse off if a break is done just as England will be worse off, maybe not financially but in many other ways.
Argue with me all you like, call me a moron, idiot, whatever you like, it's water off a ducks back and with all due respect, I've got enough money to give me and my family as well as the next 2 or 3 generations a fantastic lifestyle so the effect on me isn't my factor. I just think we are better together.
I'll await the next batch of insults but I'll be drinking champagne and eating truffles as I read them (that's a lie, I don't drink and dislike truffles)Living MY dream.0 -
Mr Goo wrote:Some cogent information from Vtech. Especially the health issue. This is I am sure is a major annoyance to most tax payers in the English part of the UK. Free prescriptions. Free Eye tests. Same for the Welsh. All subsidised by those that have to pay.
I am sure that if I was a 16 year old in Scotland and had a modicum of intelligence then I would vote NO. For the simple fact that £9,000 per year university fees will be a matter of fact and not the current £0 that is being paid for in part by me.
What a load of bolleaux. Do you think people in Wales and Scotland don't pay tax or something? Free prescriptions etc. is just the way the Welsh Government has chosen to use it's health budget, very probably at the expense of other NHS priorities with NHS Wales performing at a worse level than in England (something the Tories in Westminster like to throw at Labour whenever they criticise their handling of the NHS).0 -
What I don't get is why the Westminster politicians are throwing bribes around to encourage a no vote. Just give them a straight yes or no and leave them to face the consequences of whichever decision they make.
Personally I'd be worried voting in favour of independence when those advocating it don't seem to have considered the most fundamental questions about how things will work even though it has been their overwhelming political ideology. It makes you wonder how much thought they've given to the lesser issues!0 -
VTech is right in the respect that the rich will be unaffected by the result. The poorer people who have to work and pay mortgages will be the ones that suffer. Jobs go and interests rates will rise. Salmond and the SNP won't accept the blindingly obvious and insist it's scaremongering. They stated that they had legal advice saying that they would be able to join the EU and then used public money to try to cover up the lie. If the Scots vote Yes, knowing all this, then so be it.
If the SNP who have been in power for a while, truly believed in their view of a 'fairer society' they could have raised tax by as much as 3p but chose not to. They expect the rest of the UK to pay for their extras through the Barnet Formula.
Yes or No, at least we should be able to kiss goodbye to this formula.0 -
Pross wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Some cogent information from Vtech. Especially the health issue. This is I am sure is a major annoyance to most tax payers in the English part of the UK. Free prescriptions. Free Eye tests. Same for the Welsh. All subsidised by those that have to pay.
I am sure that if I was a 16 year old in Scotland and had a modicum of intelligence then I would vote NO. For the simple fact that £9,000 per year university fees will be a matter of fact and not the current £0 that is being paid for in part by me.
What a load of bolleaux. Do you think people in Wales and Scotland don't pay tax or something? Free prescriptions etc. is just the way the Welsh Government has chosen to use it's health budget, very probably at the expense of other NHS priorities with NHS Wales performing at a worse level than in England (something the Tories in Westminster like to throw at Labour whenever they criticise their handling of the NHS).
The problem is that they are all the same. A government will do all they can to get voted back in but that isn't a long term policy.
Listen, as normal folk we plan for the future, we save for a pension (I never did that as I used a much safer option) but in general we think of what's to come. I would guess the majority of sensible people think about how they will find their later years which is the right thing to do but governments can't because that doesn't work in a 4 year cycle because the choices to be made would mean an immediate change of party as the choices needed do not suit the majority of people.
We need cutbacks, we need a real tough stand and we can't afford free healthcare or prescriptions etc. the list goes on.
People don't like that fact but it's real and can't be changed. People lived to under 60 when the national health system came in meaning payout was low. These days people get 20-30 years on average from the system. This has broken the system yet stupid people won't accept it.
The healthcare system is actually the major issue. People live too long on average so the medial
Bills are too big and the pension pot needs to be spread out wider.
It's all unsustainable and impossible to fix.
I would love us all to just get along but even if the vote is NO it's still the end, just the start of the end.
If I were given the vote which I'm ashamed of the government for not giving me I would
Vote no but if the outcome is yes I would genuinely always vote no if ever a bailout was needed to support out neighbour. I would wish them well and I'm sure the people of Scotland would continue to work and prosper but they aren't the folk who will destroy their great country. The pillagers will be say behind a screen.
I await the insults.Living MY dream.0 -
Salmon and Sturgeon - sure there's a pun in there somewhere.0
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jawooga wrote:Salmon and Sturgeon - sure there's a pun in there somewhere.
Certainly something fishy about the 'White Paper'0 -
Game over then. Nigel Farage to speak in Glasgow in favour of a No vote......0
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VTech wrote:thegreatdivide wrote:Step away fredmac. Pointless arguing with a guy who is an expert in fuxk all but believes he's right ALL of the time. I still don't understand why he keeps on coming onto a cycling forum when he has no interest in the sport at all.
Again, I love the reply.
Using anger to try and win an argument. It's a class act.
I compared Jamaica simply because it has a decent chance of being similar to scotland. Jamaica has a thriving rum business as Scotland does whisky.
The point is that Scotland will be worse off if a break is done just as England will be worse off, maybe not financially but in many other ways.
Argue with me all you like, call me a moron, idiot, whatever you like, it's water off a ducks back and with all due respect, I've got enough money to give me and my family as well as the next 2 or 3 generations a fantastic lifestyle so the effect on me isn't my factor. I just think we are better together.
I'll await the next batch of insults but I'll be drinking champagne and eating truffles as I read them (that's a lie, I don't drink and dislike truffles)
How wonderful for you.
By the way the Jamaican rum exports are worth about £30 million compared to £4.25 Billion for Scottish Whisky.0 -
fredmac wrote:VTech wrote:thegreatdivide wrote:Step away fredmac. Pointless arguing with a guy who is an expert in fuxk all but believes he's right ALL of the time. I still don't understand why he keeps on coming onto a cycling forum when he has no interest in the sport at all.
Again, I love the reply.
Using anger to try and win an argument. It's a class act.
I compared Jamaica simply because it has a decent chance of being similar to scotland. Jamaica has a thriving rum business as Scotland does whisky.
The point is that Scotland will be worse off if a break is done just as England will be worse off, maybe not financially but in many other ways.
Argue with me all you like, call me a moron, idiot, whatever you like, it's water off a ducks back and with all due respect, I've got enough money to give me and my family as well as the next 2 or 3 generations a fantastic lifestyle so the effect on me isn't my factor. I just think we are better together.
I'll await the next batch of insults but I'll be drinking champagne and eating truffles as I read them (that's a lie, I don't drink and dislike truffles)
How wonderful for you.
By the way the Jamaican rum exports are worth about £30 million compared to £4.25 Billion for Scottish Whisky.
And thats your argument with me ?
Thats all you got ?
Ive replied with quality info and you dare come at me with that? if you worked for me I would have you in the corner with a dunce hat firmly on your bonce.
Bauxite in Jamaica was worth billions, it was sold in mining contracts and Jamaica lost vast amounts of natural wealth due to corruption, the companies that mined the bauxite didn't even clean up the fields afterwards. It produces over 10% of the global production so a MAJOR player. Same as Aluminium.
Almost every plane in the sky comes partly from Jamaica !
Wray & Nephew turnover well in excess of £30m so your figures are also wrong so no job in accounts for you either.Living MY dream.0 -
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2014 ... ness8.html
GDP Jamaica $9,199
GDP Scotland $44,378
This is my last post on this thread: you cannot argue with a 3 year old.0 -
Bauxite is the ore from which Aluminium comes from and it is a very polluting industry to separate the aluminium. It produces a very nasty sludge, "red mud", from which it is not economically possible to reduce the pollution and turn into safe, unpolluting waste. It uses a lot of electricity to poduce as well, which is often why the smelting countries are in regions with a lot of natural electricity generation or nuclear. As far as the waste sludge from the bauxite operation goes it can only be stored, in vast containment dams while it settles out. Even then the water is not safe and it never completely settles out. Seriously, if any country mines and processes bauxite they will have these toxic lagoons it is nothing to do with the government corruption but the process itself. just thought I would digress with this nugget of information for VTech. It doesn't negate his argument only I reckon he's the sort who likes information and can stand a minor correction. PS I'm with you on you on this matter VTech, carry on!0
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fredmac wrote:http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20140604/business/business8.html
GDP Jamaica $9,199
GDP Scotland $44,378
This is my last post on this thread: you cannot argue with a 3 year old.
No wonder the bank with your name fell on its aRs
You are honestly suggesting that export or production is your key factor ?
Its like someone arguing that you rule the revenue from a bank as only overdrafts or the value of the loan book.
Anyway, I argued with my kids when they were 3 although they were never as silly as you my good man.Living MY dream.0
