The Irony Thread

pangolin

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

pinno said:

Allo. allo, allo. Wos goin' on 'ere then?!

same argument in every thread

For what it's worth, I'm not sure what you are arguing in this particular case.

He's arguing with Nick because Nick is being deliberately obtuse and continuing to pretend racism isn't actually all that widespread, or that much of an issue really.

KG posts actual example from a black guys point of view.
Nick says its probably because he's working class (is that the right phrase?), for some reason...
KG points out some facts that imply he isn't working class.
Nick starts blathering on about something else and trying to sound all reasonable rather than just believing yet another black person saying they've experienced racism.

nickice

pangolin said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

pinno said:

Allo. allo, allo. Wos goin' on 'ere then?!

same argument in every thread

For what it's worth, I'm not sure what you are arguing in this particular case.

He's arguing with nick because nick is being deliberately obtuse and continuing to pretend racism isn't actually all that widespread, or that much of an issue really.

KG posts actual example from a Black guys point of view.
Nick says its probably because he's working class (is that the right phrase?), for some reason...
KG points out some facts that imply he isn't working class.
Nick starts blathering on about something else and trying to sound all reasonable rather than just believing yet another black person saying they've experienced racism.

None of that is really true, though is it? I didn't say it was 'probably a class issue' I asked it could be a class issue. I mean my actual words are available for anyone to see. If that's your bar for 'obtuse'...

And what facts imply someone is not working class? Are working class people not allowed to go to university or get their own radio show?

I am reasonable actually. I don't lie, I don't misquote posters and I answer every point made to me (in as much as I can if the thread doesn't get really long). I wish i could say the same for some others.

kingstongraham

Let's leave it.

nickice

kingstongraham said:

Let's leave it.

Probably fair enough.

pangolin

You actually said "Don't you think it looks like more of a class issue?" Implying that is what you think.

Do you think working class people are equally represented at university?

I think KG is exasperated by your reluctance to just believe the chap. I am.

pangolin

kingstongraham said:

Let's leave it.

Yeah alright

TheBigBean

I've finally understood the argument and you've all packed up and gone home!

shimanobottombracket

A policeman woman pulled me over for speeding once. She issued me a fixed penalty and I (being well annoyed) responded by saying "I don't give a shít". Truth be told I was driving faster because I was desperate to go to the toilet.

pinno

pangolin said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

pinno said:

Allo. allo, allo. Wos goin' on 'ere then?!

same argument in every thread

For what it's worth, I'm not sure what you are arguing in this particular case.

He's arguing with Nick because Nick is being deliberately obtuse and continuing to pretend racism isn't actually all that widespread, or that much of an issue really.

KG posts actual example from a black guys point of view.
Nick says its probably because he's working class (is that the right phrase?), for some reason...
KG points out some facts that imply he isn't working class.
Nick starts blathering on about something else and trying to sound all reasonable rather than just believing yet another black person saying they've experienced racism.

I see.

...and

Wot the bean said.

pblakeney

1. People bemoaning slave labour on devices produced using slave labour.
2. Is this post ironic or self aware?

pinno

There is the slight irony too in that people here are enjoying a standard of living that was induced by the slave trade and yet protest against effigy's of it.
Regardless of one's opinion about the Empire, without i's power, we would have lost the 2nd WW. The implications of that hypothetical are horrific.

ballysmate

pinno said:

There is the slight irony too in that people here are enjoying a standard of living that was induced by the slave trade and yet protest against effigy's of it.
Regardless of one's opinion about the Empire, without i's power, we would have lost the 2nd WW. The implications of that hypothetical are horrific.

But to be fair, it would have meant that some on here could take the moral high ground with the invading European colonists.

And, and it is a big 'And', there would be no Brexit thread.

surrey_commuter

pinno said:

There is the slight irony too in that people here are enjoying a standard of living that was induced by the slave trade and yet protest against effigy's of it.
Regardless of one's opinion about the Empire, without i's power, we would have lost the 2nd WW. The implications of that hypothetical are horrific.

Would probably have been no WW2.

pblakeney

"THOSE THAT DENY THEIR HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT!"

Donald J. Trump. Today 15:03 on Twitter.

blazing_saddles

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

There is the slight irony too in that people here are enjoying a standard of living that was induced by the slave trade and yet protest against effigy's of it.
Regardless of one's opinion about the Empire, without i's power, we would have lost the 2nd WW. The implications of that hypothetical are horrific.

Would probably have been no WW2.

Or WW1.

As it is, but for Churchill, Lord Halifax would almost assuredly waved the white flag, thus handing Hitler a discretionary key to 10, Downing Street.

The implications of that hypothetical most certainly are horrific.

surrey_commuter

blazing_saddles said:

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

There is the slight irony too in that people here are enjoying a standard of living that was induced by the slave trade and yet protest against effigy's of it.
Regardless of one's opinion about the Empire, without i's power, we would have lost the 2nd WW. The implications of that hypothetical are horrific.

Would probably have been no WW2.

Or WW1.

As it is, but for Churchill, Lord Halifax would almost assuredly waved the white flag, thus handing Hitler a discretionary key to 10, Downing Street.

The implications of that hypothetical most certainly are horrific.

No WW1 was kind of my point.

No reason for Hitler to invade us if we kept out of his affairs.

But without our empire the whole of European history would be totally different so irrelevant

blazing_saddles

surrey_commuter said:

blazing_saddles said:

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

There is the slight irony too in that people here are enjoying a standard of living that was induced by the slave trade and yet protest against effigy's of it.
Regardless of one's opinion about the Empire, without i's power, we would have lost the 2nd WW. The implications of that hypothetical are horrific.

Would probably have been no WW2.

Or WW1.

As it is, but for Churchill, Lord Halifax would almost assuredly waved the white flag, thus handing Hitler a discretionary key to 10, Downing Street.

The implications of that hypothetical most certainly are horrific.

No WW1 was kind of my point.

No reason for Hitler to invade us if we kept out of his affairs.

But without our empire the whole of European history would be totally different so irrelevant

You mean just like the countries he invaded who kept out of his affairs?

Without our Empire, Napoleon would have probably accomplished what Hitler failed to achieve and we would all be speaking French.
Anyhow as you say, the permutations are infinite, the whole of European history would different, but still unlikely to improve the circumstance of those who find it so abhorrent.

webboo

If it wasn’t for Jeanne D Arc the French would have been speaking English.

surrey_commuter

blazing_saddles said:

surrey_commuter said:

blazing_saddles said:

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

There is the slight irony too in that people here are enjoying a standard of living that was induced by the slave trade and yet protest against effigy's of it.
Regardless of one's opinion about the Empire, without i's power, we would have lost the 2nd WW. The implications of that hypothetical are horrific.

Would probably have been no WW2.

Or WW1.

As it is, but for Churchill, Lord Halifax would almost assuredly waved the white flag, thus handing Hitler a discretionary key to 10, Downing Street.

The implications of that hypothetical most certainly are horrific.

No WW1 was kind of my point.

No reason for Hitler to invade us if we kept out of his affairs.

But without our empire the whole of European history would be totally different so irrelevant

You mean just like the countries he invaded who kept out of his affairs?

Without our Empire, Napoleon would have probably accomplished what Hitler failed to achieve and we would all be speaking French.
Anyhow as you say, the permutations are infinite, the whole of European history would different, but still unlikely to improve the circumstance of those who find it so abhorrent.

As you say all of European history would have been different and it is inconceivable that Hitler would have risen to power in Germany, not least because it may not have existed.

pblakeney

webboo said:

If it wasn’t for Jeanne D Arc the French would have been speaking English.

Not necessarily with French language becoming more predominant in the English upper classes, a fair bit of German, and even some Scandanavian.
These thing are never clear cut.

"During the Middle English period, many Old English grammatical features either became simplified or disappeared altogether. Noun, adjective and verb inflections were simplified by the reduction (and eventual elimination) of most grammatical case distinctions. Middle English also saw considerable adoption of Norman French vocabulary, especially in the areas of politics, law, the arts, and religion. Conventional English vocabulary remained primarily Germanic in its sources, with Old Norse influences becoming more apparent. "

rick_chasey

blazing_saddles said:

?

Without our Empire, Napoleon would have probably accomplished what Hitler failed to achieve and we would all be speaking French.

You might have to show your working on this one as I am struggling to see how you arrived at this remarkable conclusion.

blazing_saddles

rick_chasey said:

blazing_saddles said:

?

Without our Empire, Napoleon would have probably accomplished what Hitler failed to achieve and we would all be speaking French.

You might have to show your working on this one as I am struggling to see how you arrived at this remarkable conclusion.

As already mentioned it's all hypothetical with so many permutations Rick, but based upon the UK making the unilateral decision to not seek to build an Empire.
So, no Empire building = no need for Royal Navy ship building = French invasion.
Of course, this scenario removes many of the reasons why Napoleon wanted to invade, but hey ho, there you go.

As SC points out, it is also inconceivable that Hitler would have risen to power in Germany, but it is possible that Germany would have had an Empire of sorts, (African?).

Then again, where does Napoleon fit in there, if at all?

orraloon

blazing_saddles said:

Then again, where does Napoleon fit in there, if at all?

Where does Sidney the Squirrel fit in there? Who he? Precisely.

david37

Oh how it tickled me to see the guardian and its slaving history being brought up but bizarrely it isnt being torn down.

Irish and English indentured workers in the Americas enjoyed the same rights and privileges as the blacks, they were equal (albeit some but not all of the Irish and English had actually chosen to be there)

Also quite interesting to look at the case of Anthony Johnson. His wasnt the first actual Slave to be owned as opposed to indentured worker, but there were few others and this was a turning point where the practice received the backing of the law.

rjsterry

blazing_saddles said:

rick_chasey said:

blazing_saddles said:

?

Without our Empire, Napoleon would have probably accomplished what Hitler failed to achieve and we would all be speaking French.

You might have to show your working on this one as I am struggling to see how you arrived at this remarkable conclusion.

As already mentioned it's all hypothetical with so many permutations Rick, but based upon the UK making the unilateral decision to not seek to build an Empire.
So, no Empire building = no need for Royal Navy ship building = French invasion.
Of course, this scenario removes many of the reasons why Napoleon wanted to invade, but hey ho, there you go.

As SC points out, it is also inconceivable that Hitler would have risen to power in Germany, but it is possible that Germany would have had an Empire of sorts, (African?).

Then again, where does Napoleon fit in there, if at all?

You've missed nearly years of history. We had an empire long before Napoleon arrived.

webboo

pblakeney said:

webboo said:

If it wasn’t for Jeanne D Arc the French would have been speaking English.

Not necessarily with French language becoming more predominant in the English upper classes, a fair bit of German, and even some Scandanavian.
These thing are never clear cut.

"During the Middle English period, many Old English grammatical features either became simplified or disappeared altogether. Noun, adjective and verb inflections were simplified by the reduction (and eventual elimination) of most grammatical case distinctions. Middle English also saw considerable adoption of Norman French vocabulary, especially in the areas of politics, law, the arts, and religion. Conventional English vocabulary remained primarily Germanic in its sources, with Old Norse influences becoming more apparent. "

I thought someone might pull me up on that one. However there was efforts made to get the rank and file of the English to settle in French towns that were captured. Given the general tone of this thread I wasn’t being that serious.

surrey_commuter

DM getting angry about a murderous nutter being deported from Australia because he left Uk as a child.

blazing_saddles

rjsterry said:

blazing_saddles said:

rick_chasey said:

blazing_saddles said:

?

Without our Empire, Napoleon would have probably accomplished what Hitler failed to achieve and we would all be speaking French.

You might have to show your working on this one as I am struggling to see how you arrived at this remarkable conclusion.

As already mentioned it's all hypothetical with so many permutations Rick, but based upon the UK making the unilateral decision to not seek to build an Empire.
So, no Empire building = no need for Royal Navy ship building = French invasion.
Of course, this scenario removes many of the reasons why Napoleon wanted to invade, but hey ho, there you go.

As SC points out, it is also inconceivable that Hitler would have risen to power in Germany, but it is possible that Germany would have had an Empire of sorts, (African?).

Then again, where does Napoleon fit in there, if at all?

You've missed nearly years of history. We had an empire long before Napoleon arrived.

It's not the first time we have omitted centuries of history, here.

You do appear to have missed my final line.

However, is it not reasonable to assume that the other protagonists in play at the empire's inception would have filled the void?

pinno

I mean, without the Romans...

orraloon

What did the Romans ever do for us?