The Irony Thread

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  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921


    But why are you comfortable with the scatter gun approach whereby the innocent get unjustly labelled?

    I guess I don't see this is a problem. No-one has perfect knowledge but calling it out is better than not.

    You could call it collateral.
    So your answer to injustices that you wrongly perceive is to inflict injustice on others.?

    I assume to don't go along with the principle of Blackstone's ratio either if you are willing to accept collateral damage.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,487
    edited January 2020


    But why are you comfortable with the scatter gun approach whereby the innocent get unjustly labelled?

    I guess I don't see this is a problem. No-one has perfect knowledge but calling it out is better than not.

    You could call it collateral.
    So your answer to injustices that you wrongly perceive is to inflict injustice on others.?

    I assume to don't go along with the principle of Blackstone's ratio either if you are willing to accept collateral damage.
    You realise presumption of innocence accepts that some injustices will prevail. It's a funny world where the worst injury you can inflict on someone is to mistakenly accuse them of having some racist views.
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  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    rjsterry said:


    But why are you comfortable with the scatter gun approach whereby the innocent get unjustly labelled?

    I guess I don't see this is a problem. No-one has perfect knowledge but calling it out is better than not.

    You could call it collateral.
    So your answer to injustices that you wrongly perceive is to inflict injustice on others.?

    I assume to don't go along with the principle of Blackstone's ratio either if you are willing to accept collateral damage.
    You realise presumption of innocence accepts that some injustices will prevail. We all accept that.
    That is what Blackstone tells us isn't it? What we all accept. Well all apart from Rick obviously.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    In RCs world we have the reverse of Blackstone.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,487
    Except we are not talking about a criminal trial - where presumption of innocence applies - but whether one is allowed to comment that one thinks someone else's behaviour has a racist element or not. I'm sure some people are too quick to accuse, but the answer is not to take the opposite extreme and demand absolute proof for each and every minor incident. Balance of probability will do just fine.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,245
    Think you’re blowing the label way out of proportion, Bally.

    No one really cares anyway if someone calls you a racist. I’m fairly sure I have accused you of that and I don’t think it had any impact whatsoever.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    rjsterry said:

    Except we are not talking about a criminal trial - where presumption of innocence applies - but whether one is allowed to comment that one thinks someone else's behaviour has a racist element or not. I'm sure some people are too quick to accuse, but the answer is not to take the opposite extreme and demand absolute proof for each and every minor incident. Balance of probability will do just fine.

    Quite happy to accept balance of probability outside the criminal court.
    It is seemingly Rick's view that It is better that ten innocent persons suffer than that one guilty escape that I have trouble with.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,245
    Now you’re making up ratios.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,245
    I do find it curious how you are so more animated about this than about actual injustices.

    It’s almost like you only care about the tiny bits that can affect you.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921

    Think you’re blowing the label way out of proportion, Bally.

    No one really cares anyway if someone calls you a racist. I’m fairly sure I have accused you of that and I don’t think it had any impact whatsoever.

    I cried myself to sleep.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    edited January 2020

    I do find it curious how you are so more animated about this than about actual injustices.

    It’s almost like you only care about the tiny bits that can affect you.

    I think we can agree that someone calling another person by a racist term is an actual injustice.
    Are you saying that falsely labelling someone is not an injustice? Actual or otherwise.


  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,487
    edited January 2020

    I do find it curious how you are so more animated about this than about actual injustices.

    It’s almost like you only care about the tiny bits that can affect you.

    I think we can agree that someone calling another person is an actual injustice.
    Are you saying that falsely labelling someone is not an injustice? Actual or otherwise.


    You make it sound like Rick is handing out tattoos. This is not some indelible mark on a person's soul. In some cases, it might be an unfair accusation, in which case the person can refute the accusation. You keep saying that this itself would be seen as proof that the accusation was true, as though this is axiomatic, but I see nothing to back that up. It all depends what is said/done/written by whom.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    rjsterry said:

    I do find it curious how you are so more animated about this than about actual injustices.

    It’s almost like you only care about the tiny bits that can affect you.

    I think we can agree that someone calling another person is an actual injustice.
    Are you saying that falsely labelling someone is not an injustice? Actual or otherwise.


    You make it sound like Rick is handing out tattoos. This is not some indelible mark on a person's soul.
    Just curious how he decides what is an injustice. Or 'actual' injustice .
    Imagine if a person made a false allegation of racism about you at work. No real way to defend yourself. How do you think that would affect your prospects? In Rick's world you have not suffered an 'actual' injustice you are just what he terms collateral damage.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,487

    rjsterry said:

    I do find it curious how you are so more animated about this than about actual injustices.

    It’s almost like you only care about the tiny bits that can affect you.

    I think we can agree that someone calling another person is an actual injustice.
    Are you saying that falsely labelling someone is not an injustice? Actual or otherwise.


    You make it sound like Rick is handing out tattoos. This is not some indelible mark on a person's soul.
    Just curious how he decides what is an injustice. Or 'actual' injustice .
    Imagine if a person made a false allegation of racism about you at work. No real way to defend yourself. How do you think that would affect your prospects? In Rick's world you have not suffered an 'actual' injustice you are just what he terms collateral damage.
    As someone who deals with staff grievances (thankfully no accusations of racism to date) this is just nonsense. An accusation of a colleague in the workplace is obviously completely different matter from commenting on a newspaper article or social media post.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,551

    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,197
    Ditto.
    rjsterry said:


    An accusation of a colleague in the workplace is obviously completely different matter from commenting on a newspaper article or social media post.

    Being labelled something on soshal meeja cannot be fun. It's a slur regardless. It could have much wider consequences than something like a work grievance that can at least be dealt with in house whereas, sh!t sticks.

    Anyhoo, ditto WS.

    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,487


    Fair.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,690
    I've forgotten what irony is, it's been so long since we had any here...
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,614
    Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
  • rjsterry said:



    Having spent a lot of time commuting by train I've noticed that pregnant women tend to be reluctant to ask people to give up their seat. The fact that TFL provides badges for women supports that.

    Unless you can be sure it is better to leave a pregnant woman standing up rather than have a fat woman sitting down crying

  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965

    rjsterry said:



    Having spent a lot of time commuting by train I've noticed that pregnant women tend to be reluctant to ask people to give up their seat. The fact that TFL provides badges for women supports that.

    Unless you can be sure it is better to leave a pregnant woman standing up rather than have a fat woman sitting down crying

    You could always just offer the women a seat without referring to either her being fat or pregnant and the problem goes away. She either does not take up the offer or does take up the offer.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,598
    😂😂😂
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
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  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,197
    That's brilliant.

    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Alanis Morissette was being interviewed on BBC Breakfast this morning and amongst other things she talked about a period where she was addicted to alcohol. After they played the VT and went back to the studio:
    Presenter 1: she seems like really good company
    Presenter 2: someone you'd like to have a pint with

    They also asked her whether she, a Canadian, had seen Ed Byrne's skit about Ironic (that he performed on a long forgotten BBC standup show in 1998). Well, no.
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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,218
    Supermarkets being busier than Christmas because people are stocking up to go into isolation.
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    In Spain during ‘lockdown’ cannot go out for a bike ride but can go to tobacconist to buy fags.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    The measures being taken to 'contain' the coronavirus conceivably causing more damage than the disease itself long term.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,245
    Mmmm am in two minds about this but bodies piling up in hospitals are difficult to explain away with “we want to save the economy”.