The Irony Thread

ballysmate

rick_chasey said:

ballysmate said:

But why are you comfortable with the scatter gun approach whereby the innocent get unjustly labelled?

I guess I don't see this is a problem. No-one has perfect knowledge but calling it out is better than not.

You could call it collateral.

So your answer to injustices that you wrongly perceive is to inflict injustice on others.?

I assume to don't go along with the principle of Blackstone's ratio either if you are willing to accept collateral damage.

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

rick_chasey said:

ballysmate said:

But why are you comfortable with the scatter gun approach whereby the innocent get unjustly labelled?

I guess I don't see this is a problem. No-one has perfect knowledge but calling it out is better than not.

You could call it collateral.

So your answer to injustices that you wrongly perceive is to inflict injustice on others.?

I assume to don't go along with the principle of Blackstone's ratio either if you are willing to accept collateral damage.

You realise presumption of innocence accepts that some injustices will prevail. It's a funny world where the worst injury you can inflict on someone is to mistakenly accuse them of having some racist views.

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

rick_chasey said:

ballysmate said:

But why are you comfortable with the scatter gun approach whereby the innocent get unjustly labelled?

I guess I don't see this is a problem. No-one has perfect knowledge but calling it out is better than not.

You could call it collateral.

So your answer to injustices that you wrongly perceive is to inflict injustice on others.?

I assume to don't go along with the principle of Blackstone's ratio either if you are willing to accept collateral damage.

You realise presumption of innocence accepts that some injustices will prevail. We all accept that.

That is what Blackstone tells us isn't it? What we all accept. Well all apart from Rick obviously.

ballysmate

In RCs world we have the reverse of Blackstone.

rjsterry

Except we are not talking about a criminal trial - where presumption of innocence applies - but whether one is allowed to comment that one thinks someone else's behaviour has a racist element or not. I'm sure some people are too quick to accuse, but the answer is not to take the opposite extreme and demand absolute proof for each and every minor incident. Balance of probability will do just fine.

rick_chasey

Think you’re blowing the label way out of proportion, Bally.

No one really cares anyway if someone calls you a racist. I’m fairly sure I have accused you of that and I don’t think it had any impact whatsoever.

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

Except we are not talking about a criminal trial - where presumption of innocence applies - but whether one is allowed to comment that one thinks someone else's behaviour has a racist element or not. I'm sure some people are too quick to accuse, but the answer is not to take the opposite extreme and demand absolute proof for each and every minor incident. Balance of probability will do just fine.

Quite happy to accept balance of probability outside the criminal court.
It is seemingly Rick's view that It is better that ten innocent persons suffer than that one guilty escape that I have trouble with.

rick_chasey

Now you’re making up ratios.

rick_chasey

I do find it curious how you are so more animated about this than about actual injustices.

It’s almost like you only care about the tiny bits that can affect you.

ballysmate

rick_chasey said:

Think you’re blowing the label way out of proportion, Bally.

No one really cares anyway if someone calls you a racist. I’m fairly sure I have accused you of that and I don’t think it had any impact whatsoever.

I cried myself to sleep.

ballysmate

rick_chasey said:

I do find it curious how you are so more animated about this than about actual injustices.

It’s almost like you only care about the tiny bits that can affect you.

I think we can agree that someone calling another person by a racist term is an actual injustice.
Are you saying that falsely labelling someone is not an injustice? Actual or otherwise.

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

rick_chasey said:

I do find it curious how you are so more animated about this than about actual injustices.

It’s almost like you only care about the tiny bits that can affect you.

I think we can agree that someone calling another person is an actual injustice.
Are you saying that falsely labelling someone is not an injustice? Actual or otherwise.

You make it sound like Rick is handing out tattoos. This is not some indelible mark on a person's soul. In some cases, it might be an unfair accusation, in which case the person can refute the accusation. You keep saying that this itself would be seen as proof that the accusation was true, as though this is axiomatic, but I see nothing to back that up. It all depends what is said/done/written by whom.

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

rick_chasey said:

I do find it curious how you are so more animated about this than about actual injustices.

It’s almost like you only care about the tiny bits that can affect you.

I think we can agree that someone calling another person is an actual injustice.
Are you saying that falsely labelling someone is not an injustice? Actual or otherwise.

You make it sound like Rick is handing out tattoos. This is not some indelible mark on a person's soul.

Just curious how he decides what is an injustice. Or 'actual' injustice .
Imagine if a person made a false allegation of racism about you at work. No real way to defend yourself. How do you think that would affect your prospects? In Rick's world you have not suffered an 'actual' injustice you are just what he terms collateral damage.

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

rick_chasey said:

I do find it curious how you are so more animated about this than about actual injustices.

It’s almost like you only care about the tiny bits that can affect you.

I think we can agree that someone calling another person is an actual injustice.
Are you saying that falsely labelling someone is not an injustice? Actual or otherwise.

You make it sound like Rick is handing out tattoos. This is not some indelible mark on a person's soul.

Just curious how he decides what is an injustice. Or 'actual' injustice .
Imagine if a person made a false allegation of racism about you at work. No real way to defend yourself. How do you think that would affect your prospects? In Rick's world you have not suffered an 'actual' injustice you are just what he terms collateral damage.

As someone who deals with staff grievances (thankfully no accusations of racism to date) this is just nonsense. An accusation of a colleague in the workplace is obviously completely different matter from commenting on a newspaper article or social media post.

Wheelspinner

pinno

Ditto.

rjsterry said:

An accusation of a colleague in the workplace is obviously completely different matter from commenting on a newspaper article or social media post.

Being labelled something on soshal meeja cannot be fun. It's a slur regardless. It could have much wider consequences than something like a work grievance that can at least be dealt with in house whereas, sh!t sticks.

Anyhoo, ditto WS.

rjsterry

Wheelspinner said:

Fair.

briantrumpet

I've forgotten what irony is, it's been so long since we had any here...

orraloon

Isn't it ironic, don't you think?

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry said:

Having spent a lot of time commuting by train I've noticed that pregnant women tend to be reluctant to ask people to give up their seat. The fact that TFL provides badges for women supports that.

Unless you can be sure it is better to leave a pregnant woman standing up rather than have a fat woman sitting down crying

john80

coopster_the_1st said:

rjsterry said:

Having spent a lot of time commuting by train I've noticed that pregnant women tend to be reluctant to ask people to give up their seat. The fact that TFL provides badges for women supports that.

Unless you can be sure it is better to leave a pregnant woman standing up rather than have a fat woman sitting down crying

You could always just offer the women a seat without referring to either her being fat or pregnant and the problem goes away. She either does not take up the offer or does take up the offer.

Pross

This

https://catholicherald.co.uk/lourdes-shrine-closes-healing-pools-as-precaution-against-coronavirus/

pblakeney

😂😂😂

diamonddog

Pross said:

This

https://catholicherald.co.uk/lourdes-shrine-closes-healing-pools-as-precaution-against-coronavirus/

😂😂😂

pinno

That's brilliant.

elbowloh

Alanis Morissette was being interviewed on BBC Breakfast this morning and amongst other things she talked about a period where she was addicted to alcohol. After they played the VT and went back to the studio:
Presenter 1: she seems like really good company
Presenter 2: someone you'd like to have a pint with

They also asked her whether she, a Canadian, had seen Ed Byrne's skit about Ironic (that he performed on a long forgotten BBC standup show in 1998). Well, no.

Pross

Supermarkets being busier than Christmas because people are stocking up to go into isolation.

diamonddog

In Spain during ‘lockdown’ cannot go out for a bike ride but can go to tobacconist to buy fags.

ballysmate

The measures being taken to 'contain' the coronavirus conceivably causing more damage than the disease itself long term.

rick_chasey

Mmmm am in two minds about this but bodies piling up in hospitals are difficult to explain away with “we want to save the economy”.