TDF Stage 10-Mulhouse-La Planche des Belles Filles *spoiler*

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Comments

  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Gazzetta says Nibali's VAM on the last climb was 1872... not good news... :?

    No idea how they would know that so soon but I wouldn't be surprised.

    Astana are just a dirty grubby team. It makes me sad.
  • ben@31
    ben@31 Posts: 2,327
    frenchfighter wrote:
    How long does a fractured tibia mean Contador will be off the bike for? Vuelta starts end of August.

    For me, a fractured tibia was 6 weeks in a plaster cast then a brace and physio.
    "The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby
  • vinnymarsden
    vinnymarsden Posts: 560
    For me , personally, and please, its only an opinion…there is something wholly not right about Nibali's performances up to now…I hope I am wrong..but he has come from nowhere really, I know we are all blessed with hugh amounts of cynicism now, after Lance's epic scam…I for one would love him to be clean, but if the climbing figures for today are true then he is one of the worlds top climbers…since when!!
    He is allegedly a great defender…but up the hill is a lot harder….lets hope I am wrong..but I fear not!!!
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Gazzetta says Nibali's VAM on the last climb was 1872... not good news... :?

    He was slower than Froome, Wiggins and Cadel in 2012 (significantly more difficult stage today) but shortish climb and quite steep = higher VAM
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • ben@31
    ben@31 Posts: 2,327
    Macaloon wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Gazzetta says Nibali's VAM on the last climb was 1872... not good news... :?

    I'm sure they take into account all the variables , including Scarponi's tow, when deriving a power estimate. Not.

    Bet he still did not get the Strava seg.
    "The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    As a matter of fact, he's Dr F's comments from 2012

    After the usual flat stages, as always stuffed with too many crashes and broken bones, the short climb of La Planche des Belles Filles (500m of ascent at 8.5%) already offered a certain selection, with Froome, Evans, Wiggins and Nibali expressing 1844 m/h, equal to 6.47w/kg.
    A great performance, promptly celebrated by certain journalists as the best ever at the TdF, but surely much helped by the shortness of the effort (16 minutes) at the end of a not too difficult stage, by the moderate altitude and by the strong but steady pace impressed by Team Sky, with only one significant acceleration imposed from an excellent Froome.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    Macaloon wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Gazzetta says Nibali's VAM on the last climb was 1872... not good news... :?

    I'm sure they take into account all the variables , including Scarponi's tow, when deriving a power estimate. Not.
    Except that it's not a power estimate :roll: All you need to calculate VAM is a stopwatch and either an altimeter or a map of the course. With a bit of effort you could probably calculate it yourself from the TV coverage...
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • OPQS
    OPQS Posts: 187
    Can someone explain what VAM is and it's significance please? From comments I'm guessing it can indicate the use of PEDs?
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,434
    VinnyMarsden wrote:
    ..but he has come from nowhere really

    You serious?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • OPQS
    OPQS Posts: 187
    TGOTB wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Gazzetta says Nibali's VAM on the last climb was 1872... not good news... :?

    I'm sure they take into account all the variables , including Scarponi's tow, when deriving a power estimate. Not.
    Except that it's not a power estimate :roll: All you need to calculate VAM is a stopwatch and either an altimeter or a map of the course. With a bit of effort you could probably calculate it yourself from the TV coverage...

    Aah...so that's what Ferrari was doing on his sofa while watching Lance in the TdF (The Armstrong Lie). I saw him holding a stop watch and wondered what he was up to.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,311
    In fairness he did half the climb behind Scarponi... and he was "only" 7 seconds faster than Froome in 2012...
    left the forum March 2023
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    OPQS wrote:
    TGOTB wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Gazzetta says Nibali's VAM on the last climb was 1872... not good news... :?

    I'm sure they take into account all the variables , including Scarponi's tow, when deriving a power estimate. Not.
    Except that it's not a power estimate :roll: All you need to calculate VAM is a stopwatch and either an altimeter or a map of the course. With a bit of effort you could probably calculate it yourself from the TV coverage...

    Aah...so that's what Ferrari was doing on his sofa while watching Lance in the TdF (The Armstrong Lie). I saw him holding a stop watch and wondered what he was up to.

    Yep, that's all you need to do to work out doping, take a stopwatch and time a rider up a hill :roll:
  • OPQS
    OPQS Posts: 187
    In case anyone else is also wondering what everyone's talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAM_%28bicycling%29
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    I preferred the discussion about the broken bike.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • vinnymarsden
    vinnymarsden Posts: 560
    Im not convinced…he's ahd a sh1t season..then bang..hes climbing like Pantani!!!!!
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    Jesus, the science on here is incredible.
  • OPQS
    OPQS Posts: 187
    mfin wrote:
    Yep, that's all you need to do to work out doping, take a stopwatch and time a rider up a hill :roll:

    So does it have any value then? Genuine question - I have no idea.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    TGOTB wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Gazzetta says Nibali's VAM on the last climb was 1872... not good news... :?

    I'm sure they take into account all the variables , including Scarponi's tow, when deriving a power estimate. Not.
    Except that it's not a power estimate :roll: All you need to calculate VAM is a stopwatch and either an altimeter or a map of the course. With a bit of effort you could probably calculate it yourself from the TV coverage...

    That's why I added the "deriving power" bit. VAM is arithmetic. Power modeling is deep voodoo given all the variables.

    I've yet to see any of the pseudo seance merchants address the drafting issue. Best example being Froome v Contador in the Dauphiné ding dong (Stage 2?). Their VAMs would be the same, but Froome was crucified for riding like a moron towing Contador all over the mountain. Which model would accurately derive Contador's power from his VAM for that ride?
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Well, at least the winner of the Tour was decided a lot quicker than last night's WC final.
    The Tour finds itself a grand Giro stage, but it's killed the race as a competition.

    Astana's form in this year's GTs has been exceptional. Now benefiting from Scarponi's early exit form the Giro and having a glass with Vino, each night before bed. :lol:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Rich went too early with the abandon thread gif.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    OPQS wrote:
    mfin wrote:
    Yep, that's all you need to do to work out doping, take a stopwatch and time a rider up a hill :roll:

    So does it have any value then? Genuine question - I have no idea.

    Very little. There are so many variables it can't factor in - Ferrari even admits that
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • kamil1891
    kamil1891 Posts: 658
    VinnyMarsden wrote:
    For me , personally, and please, its only an opinion…there is something wholly not right about Nibali's performances up to now…I hope I am wrong..but he has come from nowhere really, I know we are all blessed with hugh amounts of cynicism now, after Lance's epic scam…I for one would love him to be clean, but if the climbing figures for today are true then he is one of the worlds top climbers…since when!!
    He is allegedly a great defender…but up the hill is a lot harder….lets hope I am wrong..but I fear not!!!

    troll of the year... or at least this topic.

    P.S. surely up to now Nibs was a sprinter, wasn't he?
  • OPQS
    OPQS Posts: 187
    iainf72 wrote:
    OPQS wrote:
    mfin wrote:
    Yep, that's all you need to do to work out doping, take a stopwatch and time a rider up a hill :roll:

    So does it have any value then? Genuine question - I have no idea.

    Very little. There are so many variables it can't factor in - Ferrari even admits that

    Thanks. I missed most of the stage because of work, I'll have to watch it later.
  • adamfo
    adamfo Posts: 763
    Team boss Bjarne Riis said

    "He was going fast on the downhill at about 60 or 70km/h. It was a bumpy road and he lost control of he bike. Maybe he was eating."

    :shock:
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    Well, at least Froome went out before Contador, can you imagine all the kinds of posts we have been spared because of that. Plus, now that they're both out the obsessives will have less to chops about. There will be lots to enjoy with neither of them present for the neutral and impartial people.
  • OPQS
    OPQS Posts: 187
    mfin wrote:
    Well, at least Froome went out before Contador, can you imagine all the kinds of posts we have been spared because of that. Plus, now that they're both out the obsessives will have less to chops about. There will be lots to enjoy with neither of them present for the neutral and impartial people.

    You'd need Nibali out as well for that to happen.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,332
    OPQS wrote:
    Can someone explain what VAM is and it's significance please? From comments I'm guessing it can indicate the use of PEDs?

    It's a rough and ready measure of climbing speed, favoured because it's simple and provides reassuringly precise and large numbers for simpletons - 1872m/h sounds both big and scientifically accurate. It enables misleading comparisons between climbs of wildly different lengths, in different tactical situations and hugely different conditions - and is therefore trotted out at the merest provocation as inarguable 'proof' that something is not right...
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    OPQS wrote:
    mfin wrote:
    Well, at least Froome went out before Contador, can you imagine all the kinds of posts we have been spared because of that. Plus, now that they're both out the obsessives will have less to chops about. There will be lots to enjoy with neither of them present for the neutral and impartial people.

    You'd need Nibali out as well for that to happen.

    I don't think there's many Nibali obsessives on here. I don't think you can even buy Nibali pillow and duvet sets in the UK.
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    underlayunderlay wrote:
    OPQS wrote:
    Can someone explain what VAM is and it's significance please? From comments I'm guessing it can indicate the use of PEDs?

    It's a rough and ready measure of climbing speed, favoured because it's simple and provides reassuringly precise and large numbers for simpletons - 1872m/h sounds both big and scientifically accurate. It enables misleading comparisons between climbs of wildly different lengths, in different tactical situations and hugely different conditions - and is therefore trotted out at the merest provocation as inarguable 'proof' that something is not right...

    Very. Good. Post.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,332
    iainf72 wrote:
    OPQS wrote:
    mfin wrote:
    Yep, that's all you need to do to work out doping, take a stopwatch and time a rider up a hill :roll:

    So does it have any value then? Genuine question - I have no idea.

    Very little. There are so many variables it can't factor in - Ferrari even admits that

    Presumably it has value in that for any given rider, if their training allows them to increase it over time then they're probably going in the right direction? As a one-shot measure of anything, no, not so much.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships

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