Froome on Wiggins and more

feelgoodlost

No tA Doctor wrote:

ddraver wrote:

No Surprise but I'm a bit disappointed. As cool as it was to have seen Wiggo pulling the British team along the cobbles or up the hills in Yorkshire, it won't be much less cool to see Gerraint Thomas doing the same thing (if...)

The reality is that I can't see it affecting the outcome much either way to be honest. If Froome spanners it over the cobbles I'm not sure i'd have given Wiggo much more hope than Ritchie anyway

So, where does a classics/track rider find employment then?

On a purely emotional level, I've never ever warmed to Froome at all. Wiggins can be an utter knobend, but I can't help liking him most of the time. There's no doubt that Froome is the better racer now. But the recent stuff has left me actively disliking him. So purely in terms of connection with Froome, Bradley on the team would have helped me have an emotional engagement with the outcome. If Wiggins was riding for him then yeah, that would have been good enough for me: "come on Froome, well done Wiggins". Now it just feels a bit meh. It's always nicer to watch a race when you have someone you actually want to win it riding it. And that's a huge shame with the Tour starting on British roads. Froome's the champion, but Wiggins is the star. I suspect quite a few others have the same feeling.

I'd agree with that. Do you think there is a bit of jealousy from Froome's perspective? On how he is seen in comparison to Wiggins?

above_the_cows

What happened to all the opprobrium poured Wiggins' way last year? Didn't we spend ages discussing how he was a but if a mess mentally, needed to sort himself out etc etc?

For what it's worth I like Bradley Wiggins, I think he is one of the most amazing cyclists in terms of all round ability that has ever lived. This does not however get him a free pass onto a team or preclude him from at times being a bit ok a kn*b.

If I was Chris Froome, who I don't really like so much but have come to respect, I would not want Bradley Wiggins on my team. I don't however see how this is all Chris' fault and I don't think it justifies an outpouring of anger directed towards him.

Brailsford however as per my post goodness knows how many pages back now lacks emotional intelligence.

The more pertinent question to me if we're talking team selection is Movistar leaving Qunitana off the Tour team and having him ride the Giro, but I'm sure they have their reasons just like Sky have theirs.

I guess I struggle to get the level of anger, I never thought Wiggins would ride the Tour. Or the desire to see this in such stark Manichaen, good/bad, black/white terms.

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

I've been looking at the Vuelta route and really can't see it suiting Wiggins - 2 very short TTs versus quite a few MTFs and smaller uphill finishes designed for JRod to take bonus seconds. Besides, if he got sent there as leader Henao is likely to get upset (assuming he's still in Sky's plans) or possibly Nieve.

Surely he'll pop off to America again and do the races there.

Crozza

75% of people think Wiggins should go to the Tour

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/06/ ... wKBdb9D.99

salsiccia1

Above The Cows wrote:

If I was Chris Froome, who I don't really like so much but have come to respect, I would not want Bradley Wiggins on my team. I don't however see how this is all Chris' fault and I don't think it justifies an outpouring of anger directed towards him.

Word.

Richmond Racer

Pross wrote:

I've been looking at the Vuelta route and really can't see it suiting Wiggins - 2 very short TTs versus quite a few MTFs and smaller uphill finishes designed for JRod to take bonus seconds. Besides, if he got sent there as leader Henao is likely to get upset (assuming he's still in Sky's plans) or possibly Nieve.

Wont go as leader. When he talked about the Vuelta, he mentioned it as likely prep for the Worlds TT as both Martin and Fabs tend to ride it for prep - and both usually climb off in the final week. And he'll be at some level of track weight only 3 weeks before the start of the Vuelta.

above_the_cows

And can we all refrain from using such terms as plastic Brit. It's offensive. Lots of people have dual nationality, switch nationality for a range of reasons.

RichN95.

Above The Cows wrote:

Manichaen

This has to be the most intellectual word ever used on this forum. I had to google it.

mroli

What about Bernie Eisel? He was well p*ssed off not to ride his 10th TdF last year and was on the long list for this year and unlikely to ride...

Pross

Above The Cows wrote:

What happened to all the opprobrium poured Wiggins' way last year? Didn't we spend ages discussing how he was a but if a mess mentally, needed to sort himself out etc etc?
<snip>
The more pertinent question to me if we're talking team selection is Movistar leaving Qunitana off the Tour team and having him ride the Giro, but I'm sure they have their reasons just like Sky have theirs.

On the first point yes and I think that's part of the issue. He appears to have sorted himself out and has done well at the races he has publicly targeted and yet is still being sidelined.

With the Movistar point then at least Quintana got the chance to ride and win the second biggest stage race. If Sky had decided Wiggins wasn't required and given the problems they knew well in advance that Porte was having why didn't they put him in the Giro instead? OK, he wouldn't have won but he could have been top 5 when you look at the final standings.

philbar72

the article don wrote:

Based on an inherent dislike of Froome and his missus totally removed from any actual facts, and following this saga, I hope Bertie and his gang bury Sky this year. I appreciate this is unpatriotic, petty and childish but this is what my gut says.

i'd love it if Nibbles or bertie beat him. Froomes a spod. don't like him at all. when i used to watch the tour back in the day the riders were classy, riding their bikes with great technique. now you've got this guy that looks like a daddy longlegs flapping around on the bike outclimbing everyone.

its not good....

above_the_cows

Pross wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

What happened to all the opprobrium poured Wiggins' way last year? Didn't we spend ages discussing how he was a but if a mess mentally, needed to sort himself out etc etc?
<snip>
The more pertinent question to me if we're talking team selection is Movistar leaving Qunitana off the Tour team and having him ride the Giro, but I'm sure they have their reasons just like Sky have theirs.

On the first point yes and I think that's part of the issue. He appears to have sorted himself out and has done well at the races he has publicly targeted and yet is still being sidelined.

With the Movistar point then at least Quintana got the chance to ride and win the second biggest stage race. If Sky had decided Wiggins wasn't required and given the problems they knew well in advance that Porte was having why didn't they put him in the Giro instead? OK, he wouldn't have won but he could have been top 5 when you look at the final standings.

Because Wiggins was by that point focused on the cobbles? Would he really have been top 5? No one can answer that. And yes he might appear to have sorted his head issues out this year, but would you trust that they would stay sorted, especially as those head issues seemed to have been sorted while staying as far away from Froome and grand tours as possible? As I said, from a Froome's position and from a managerial position I wouldn't trust Wiggins.

sonny73

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Brailsford's exceedingly poor man management 'skills' at play. Again.

Agree with you here.

But bad comms / PR too - The team should've owned this and not let Wiggins control the message.

I agree with both statements, it's very shoddy. The messages it sends to the other riders in the team isn't great, I wouldn't want to ride for them if I was a pro.

above_the_cows

mroli wrote:

What about Bernie Eisel? He was well p*ssed off not to ride his 10th TdF last year and was on the long list for this year and unlikely to ride...

This is all about Wiggins v Froome you can't bring other riders into it. It ruins the dynamic.

tailwindhome

As Brian Coughlin said "Everything ends badly, otherwise, it would never end"

Anonymous

AtC - it's not his fault and I don't think he is getting vitriol for wiggo not riding, it's his behaviour in the leadup to the tour.

Likewise with Brad, he did have a terrible 2013, but look how he's done this year? Focussed, at ease, good results, enjoying life and back to possible? 2012 form. Basically done all he could to warrant a spot in 2014 tour team.

If he had continued with 2013 form, people wouldn't be surprised. However they would probably think Froome was acting like a class A prick (TM), a title reserved for LA.

Richmond Racer

Sonny73 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Brailsford's exceedingly poor man management 'skills' at play. Again.

Agree with you here.

But bad comms / PR too - The team should've owned this and not let Wiggins control the message.

I agree with both statements, it's very shoddy. The messages it sends to the other riders in the team isn't great, I wouldn't want to ride for them if I was a pro.

Wisdom of Simon Yates decision to accept OGE instead, becomes very clear

I hope Tao Geoghegan Hart's taking notice for when Baldy Brailsford comes knocking

ian.r.mcdonald

Dave Brailsford is a genius and one of my heroes. In leaving Brad out (and following Froomes demands) he has shown
that even a genius can make a mistake

Macaloon

It's always like this at the mid-point of the Brailsford cycle. After winning in 2012 it's natural to take a couple of years before refocussing on the next big one in 2016.

ian.r.mcdonald

At least Bradley showed that one of the major Sky riders can follow team orders in the way he presented himself in the BBC interview

an hour walking up Holme Moss seems not that appealing without Brad to see

Looks like getting to one of the finishes and shouting for Cav instead

above_the_cows

coriordan wrote:

AtC - it's not his fault and I don't think he is getting vitriol for wiggo not riding, it's his behaviour in the leadup to the tour.

But what behaviour? Having a book out? Well he's not the first to do that and releasing it now makes commercial sense. Did we call out Brad when he had his book out? Saying Bradley Wiggins is mentally weak? Well going on past experience he is and Froome would be in a better position to know than most.

It just seems that when Bradley acts like a bit of a prat everyone is all like "oh that Bradley he's such a lovable prat, what a cad he is, oh ho ho ho." When Froome acts like a bit of a prat he is evil incarnate.

I am an equal opportunities caller of prattishness. A prat is a prat is a prat. You don't get a pass on being a prat just because you like Paul Weller, had some sideburns and made a funny joke about drawing the raffle.

Anonymous

Not remotely interested in either books, although Wiggo has better palmares to justify it, if you want to know my thoughts on the matter.

I just don't think slagging off a teammate saying they are mentally and physically weak and that you gifted them the tour win because that was team orders, paints you in a light which could be described as mere 'prattishness'.

Wiggins is a prat for swearing at the cameras and giving them the finger when he broke his.

vimfuego

Froome does appear to be a bloddy hypocrite though. And a prat ;-)

symo

" I sensed a mental weakness in brad " - I read as; " I am not that sure about having such a strong domestique on my tour team and it is actually playing on my nerves a bit - I'll have a word with Dave"
Oh and Brailsford; you live in ILSON, wheres you hardness when whiney boy says he won't play with Brad anymore.

I hope that Quntantannananaana - or however it is spelled wins. Froome looks like a total whiney ass, lives in Monaco (obviously doesn't like British tax). Perhaps living in the UK would give that thing he lacks - a personality, he is the cycling equivalent of Federer.

Hope Cav has a good few days in the UK, but my following of this years tour will be hoping the Colombian ruins Froomes tour completely.

No_Ta_Doctor

Above The Cows wrote:

What happened to all the opprobrium poured Wiggins' way last year? Didn't we spend ages discussing how he was a but if a mess mentally, needed to sort himself out etc etc?

For what it's worth I like Bradley Wiggins, I think he is one of the most amazing cyclists in terms of all round ability that has ever lived. This does not however get him a free pass onto a team or preclude him from at times being a bit ok a kn*b.

If I was Chris Froome, who I don't really like so much but have come to respect, I would not want Bradley Wiggins on my team. I don't however see how this is all Chris' fault and I don't think it justifies an outpouring of anger directed towards him.

Brailsford however as per my post goodness knows how many pages back now lacks emotional intelligence.

The more pertinent question to me if we're talking team selection is Movistar leaving Qunitana off the Tour team and having him ride the Giro, but I'm sure they have their reasons just like Sky have theirs.

I guess I struggle to get the level of anger, I never thought Wiggins would ride the Tour. Or the desire to see this in such stark Manichaen, good/bad, black/white terms.

For me, the problem is that Froome's narrative doesn't add up. It feels manipulative, massively spun, and seeks to justify a coldly calculated attack on his team leader in 2012 that was difficult to forgive. He's come out the winner in the struggle for team leadership, but has done it particularly gracelessly and has belittled Wiggins in doing so. In the past I was prone to attributing the particularly mendacious bits of spin and bile to his fiance, giving him the benefit of the doubt. I don't think I can do that any more.

I'd actually have more respect for Froome if he hadn't eventually heeded the call to come back, but had gone all out and ridden for himself. The attack and drop back was a weasely, cowardly act.

As for opprobrium for Wiggins, there was plenty, but little from me. Recognising his head was a mess and needed sorting out - along with his performance - is a long way from chastising him for it.

Manichaen maybe. But Machiavellian from Froome? Definitely.

Anonymous

^ Quintana isn't riding the tour, he just won the Giro.

It will be Contador or Nibali as a main threat (plus many others I've probably forgotten)

vimfuego

Quintana (?) isn't riding it is he?
Hope Nibali goes well TBH

feelgoodlost

symo wrote:

" I sensed a mental weakness in brad " - I read as; " I am not that sure about having such a strong domestique on my tour team and it is actually playing on my nerves a bit - I'll have a word with Dave"
Oh and Brailsford; you live in ILSON, wheres you hardness when whiney boy says he won't play with Brad anymore.

I hope that Quntantannananaana - or however it is spelled wins. Froome looks like a total whiney ass, lives in Monaco (obviously doesn't like British tax). Perhaps living in the UK would give that thing he lacks - a personality, he is the cycling equivalent of Federer.

Hope Cav has a good few days in the UK, but my following of this years tour will be hoping the Colombian ruins Froomes tour completely.

Sorry to break it to you but Quintana isn't riding the tour.

Anonymous

no ta doctor - that fits nicely with his 'mr and mrs Macbeth' chat from RR as well.
Slimy indeed. Also cycling equivalent of Federer is good.


Living in Monaco may be to do with lots of hills, to be fair to him

fleshtuxedo

Tour will be less entertaining without Wiggins. It's a shame. My ambivalence to Froome has taken a small step in the negative direction. I think Sky will have a weaker team without him and that might prove a mistake. Then again, Froome might monster it anyway.