Froome on Wiggins and more

Richmond Racer

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

If I were Alberto Contador I would be laughing my back off.

In one fowl swoop, Sky have reduced the effectiveness of their team, especially on the first week cobbles and shown that Froome has a mental weakness in fearing his own team-mates.

Advantage Saxo.

Is that cos Brailsford is being chicken?

Anonymous

(Except I still like the classics team)

thegreatdivide

greeny12 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Bean, I cannot stand Froome. I've considered him a snake under a veneer of humility, for 2 years now. He and his gf were named Macbeth and Lady Macbeth as far back as Jul 2012.

I'd rather Nibz than Bert. But I'd rather a doper (ex-doper?) than a snake.

And Froome kept Eisel out of the Tour team last year (allegedly)

The Wiggins love is a strange thing. He's contrary and so am I. The more people hate on him, the more strongly I defend him. Has always been this way. His frailties make him human. Even when he's being a tool.

+1

Especially the last paragraph.

Agreed.

No_Ta_Doctor

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Again, who thinks Wiggo would have picked Froome to support him in 2013? Anyone?

Wiggins came out after the 2012 win and pretty much said it was Froome's turn next year - does anyone think Froome would have done the same in that situation ? If Wiggins had been a bit more canny and self interested he could probably have made sure he stayed as Tour leader for 2013 and 2014 too. To that extent he's been the author of his own downfall.

The 2013 Tour was more suited to Froome than Wiggins, the situation would never have arisen. Especially not with Froome staking his claim very strongly to be considered tour leader. But more to the point, there isn't really an equivalence here. It was Froome who tried to underline his leadership credentials by attacking his own leader, not the other way round. Froome may well feel he was betrayed by the management re his role in 2012, but it was him that betrayed his leader - until called back. I don't see an equivalent betrayal the other way round.

Turfle

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Again, who thinks Wiggo would have picked Froome to support him in 2013? Anyone?

Wiggins came out after the 2012 win and pretty much said it was Froome's turn next year - does anyone think Froome would have done the same in that situation ? If Wiggins had been a bit more canny and self interested he could probably have made sure he stayed as Tour leader for 2013 and 2014 too. To that extent he's been the author of his own downfall.

And then spent the next 6 months saying "we'll see" about his own chances of winning in 2013. Hardly the words of the supportive team player we now seem to expect Wiggins would be this year.

It's all yours Chris! “I believe more than ever that I can win the Giro and the Tour this year” .

philwint

I've never expected to 'like' any sportsmen. To deliver the kind of performances I admire requires such obsessive self focus and arrogance that almost by definition most are dicks. So whether one of the other is currently slagging the other off to sell books is water of a ducks back.

So it's not surprising I don't much like either BW or CF

However I do like watching them both ride their bikes, so I'm slightly disappointed by the news.

If you had to pick just one then CF would be the choice because of the parcours this year. And from my armchair it does seem sensible to bring BW along too. But I'm not stupid enough to think that DB doesn't know a whole lot more about bike racing than I do.

As for Sky generally. I admire the last two wins, I like that they are (notionally) a UK team, I really like their focus on sports science (even if that makes them 'dull'). But I also admire a whole lot of other teams and specific riders, so I always class myself as a neutral spectator. So I don't think this is going to affect my enjoyment of the race much.

Richmond Racer

Turfle wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Again, who thinks Wiggo would have picked Froome to support him in 2013? Anyone?

Wiggins came out after the 2012 win and pretty much said it was Froome's turn next year - does anyone think Froome would have done the same in that situation ? If Wiggins had been a bit more canny and self interested he could probably have made sure he stayed as Tour leader for 2013 and 2014 too. To that extent he's been the author of his own downfall.

And then spent the next 6 months saying "we'll see" about his own chances of winning in 2013. Hardly the words of the supportive team player we now seem to expect Wiggins would be this year.

It's all yours Chris! “I believe more than ever that I can win the Giro and the Tour this year” .

You do know that Brailsford played them both all through last season, not making a definitive public statement (or indeed telling Wiggins himself) that Froome was to be the definite sole leader until Froome forced him to do so after Wiggins came out with that?

Brailsford's exceedingly poor man management 'skills' at play. Again.

exlaser

thegreatdivide wrote:

greeny12 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Bean, I cannot stand Froome. I've considered him a snake under a veneer of humility, for 2 years now. He and his gf were named Macbeth and Lady Macbeth as far back as Jul 2012.

I'd rather Nibz than Bert. But I'd rather a doper (ex-doper?) than a snake.

And Froome kept Eisel out of the Tour team last year (allegedly)

The Wiggins love is a strange thing. He's contrary and so am I. The more people hate on him, the more strongly I defend him. Has always been this way. His frailties make him human. Even when he's being a tool.

+1

Especially the last paragraph.

Agreed.

Spot on.

Crampeur

"How can Bradley Wiggins to end up being in yellow jersey? Sign with @tinkoff_saxo and wear all year long :-)"
-Oleg Tinkov

Pross

Richmond Racer wrote:

He went on to say that IF Froome were to get injured in the Dauphine - or basically before the Tour - then that might change things because it might lead to a change in the team construct.

Which is where the 'as things stand' comes in.



RIGHT. So:

1. If anyone henceforth calls me a Sky fan, i will truly lamp them

2. I am investing in my Nibz supporters flag - but also a Bert one, as back-up

3. If anyone sees me on t'telly at some point along the route on either of the first stages, lurking behind a dry stone wall with a trip wire....it never happened

3. Roll on the Commie Games

Surely a trip to the Dauphine would be worthwhile for anyone that way inclined? We can then all point and laugh as Wiggins supports Sky's 'number 2', Porte, to win. Can you imagine the Twitter meltdown that would create based on Porte's form this season

iainf72

Richmond Racer wrote:

Brailsford's exceedingly poor man management 'skills' at play. Again.

Agree with you here.

But bad comms / PR too - The team should've owned this and not let Wiggins control the message.

Richmond Racer

Pross wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

He went on to say that IF Froome were to get injured in the Dauphine - or basically before the Tour - then that might change things because it might lead to a change in the team construct.

Which is where the 'as things stand' comes in.



RIGHT. So:

1. If anyone henceforth calls me a Sky fan, i will truly lamp them

2. I am investing in my Nibz supporters flag - but also a Bert one, as back-up

3. If anyone sees me on t'telly at some point along the route on either of the first stages, lurking behind a dry stone wall with a trip wire....it never happened

3. Roll on the Commie Games

Surely a trip to the Dauphine would be worthwhile for anyone that way inclined? We can then all point and laugh as Wiggins supports Sky's 'number 2', Porte, to win. Can you imagine the Twitter meltdown that would create based on Porte's form this season

*fires up Expedia*

bompington

Richmond Racer wrote:

Turfle wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Again, who thinks Wiggo would have picked Froome to support him in 2013? Anyone?

Wiggins came out after the 2012 win and pretty much said it was Froome's turn next year - does anyone think Froome would have done the same in that situation ? If Wiggins had been a bit more canny and self interested he could probably have made sure he stayed as Tour leader for 2013 and 2014 too. To that extent he's been the author of his own downfall.

And then spent the next 6 months saying "we'll see" about his own chances of winning in 2013. Hardly the words of the supportive team player we now seem to expect Wiggins would be this year.

It's all yours Chris! “I believe more than ever that I can win the Giro and the Tour this year” .

You do know that Brailsford played them both all through last season, not making a definitive public statement (or indeed telling Wiggins himself) that Froome was to be the definite sole leader until Froome forced him to do so after Wiggins came out with that?

Brailsford's exceedingly poor man management 'skills' at play. Again.

There's also a bit of a difference between Wiggins' rather pathetically optimistic "I kind of hope I'm up to it, please please pick me" and what appears to me to be quite cold-bloodedly calculating, self-justifying character assassination from Froome - and yet if you think about it, it gains him no practical benefit: it knifes a potentially valuable team member in the back, and it's not as though his No. 1 spot has ever been in any doubt for the last couple of years.





Oh no! I've got sucked into the soap opera despite everything I believe in, someone please get me out!

meagain

I know it's not possible to judge folk through the layer of celebrity (!) and PR, but I think I'd quite like Wiggins. I rather wish he was riding the Tour.

Richmond Racer

c'mon, Bomp, its Fri

Indulge in a bit o' soap opera

Its better than Cash in the Attic

bompington

Richmond Racer wrote:

c'mon, Bomp, its Fri

Indulge in a bit o' soap opera

Its better than working

FTFY

greeny12

I know she's not everybody's cup of tea but there was no beating about the bush regarding Brailsford's utter lack of emotional intelligence in Vicky Pendleton's book.

Seems she might have had a point.

Macaloon

Richmond Racer wrote:

Turfle wrote:

And then spent the next 6 months saying "we'll see" about his own chances of winning in 2013. Hardly the words of the supportive team player we now seem to expect Wiggins would be this year.

It's all yours Chris! “I believe more than ever that I can win the Giro and the Tour this year” .

You do know that Brailsford played them both all through last season, not making a definitive public statement (or indeed telling Wiggins himself) that Froome was to be the definite sole leader until Froome forced him to do so after Wiggins came out with that?

Brailsford's exceedingly poor man management 'skills' at play. Again.

Froome being trapped in his cocoon until halfway through La Vuelta 2011 was a fantastic stroke of luck for Wiggo. Had Froome been in that 2011 Tour team...

salsiccia1

Is Froome the best rider SKy have for the Tour? Yes

Would the Sky team for the Tour be better with Wiggins in it? From a pure rider ability view, probably. But from a team harmony and overall commitment view? Probably not. And that is what it all comes down to.

As if it's only Froome's choice. And why is he the villain here? He's written a book, it's being serialised. He's not spouting off.

greeny12

Salsiccia1 wrote:

He's not spouting off.

M'Lud, let me refer you to exhibit A:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/27722064

No_Ta_Doctor

bompington wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

c'mon, Bomp, its Fri

Indulge in a bit o' soap opera

Its better than working

FTFY

I'd just like to point out that I have the day off, as I did yesterday, and as I do on Monday. Off out to play drums in the Copenhagen Carnival later :-)

Daz555

I did hear that Wiggo might be in the Vuelta this year in build up to World TT. Not sure if true.

This snub from Sky could be a motivator to try and do well there rather than just show up.

One thing for sure. Wiggo will not be in Sky colours next year.

Richmond Racer

Macaloon wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Turfle wrote:

And then spent the next 6 months saying "we'll see" about his own chances of winning in 2013. Hardly the words of the supportive team player we now seem to expect Wiggins would be this year.

It's all yours Chris! “I believe more than ever that I can win the Giro and the Tour this year” .

You do know that Brailsford played them both all through last season, not making a definitive public statement (or indeed telling Wiggins himself) that Froome was to be the definite sole leader until Froome forced him to do so after Wiggins came out with that?

Brailsford's exceedingly poor man management 'skills' at play. Again.

Froome being trapped in his cocoon until halfway through La Vuelta 2011 was a fantastic stroke of luck for Wiggo. Had Froome been in that 2011 Tour team...

...had he been in that 2011 Tour team, and with Wiggins crashed out, Froome would still blown up on suicidal chases, and ricocheted from day to day, good day-bad day. It took him riding for Brad in the Vuelta to learn from him how to measure his efforts over a 3 week race. As Froome himself acknowledged in interviews after the Vuelta.

mroli

This is why cycling is such a great sport though - no? As well as all the on bike drama, we have all the off bike excitement of being a soap opera. We could just wait and see what happens, but in the meantime we have stuff like this:

David Millar‏@millarmind·50 mins
Having a nice Friday at the office @franmillar? Nothing like a quiet, chilled out day before the weekend. TGIF huh?! Lovely.
Fran Millar‏@franmillar·25 mins
@millarmind you're a d*ck.

ddraver

I ve had a lot of days of recently....

No Surprise but I'm a bit disappointed. As cool as it was to have seen Wiggo pulling the British team along the cobbles or up the hills in Yorkshire, it won't be much less cool to see Gerraint Thomas doing the same thing (if...)

The reality is that I can't see it affecting the outcome much either way to be honest. If Froome spanners it over the cobbles I'm not sure i'd have given Wiggo much more hope than Ritchie anyway

So, where does a classics/track rider find employment then?

the article don

Based on an inherent dislike of Froome and his missus totally removed from any actual facts, and following this saga, I hope Bertie and his gang bury Sky this year. I appreciate this is unpatriotic, petty and childish but this is what my gut says.

ddraver

David Millar @millarmind
Having a nice Friday at the office @franmillar? Nothing like a quiet, chilled out day before the weekend. TGIF huh?! Lovely.

Fran Millar ‏@franmillar
@millarmind you're a d*ck.

No_Ta_Doctor

ddraver wrote:

No Surprise but I'm a bit disappointed. As cool as it was to have seen Wiggo pulling the British team along the cobbles or up the hills in Yorkshire, it won't be much less cool to see Gerraint Thomas doing the same thing (if...)

The reality is that I can't see it affecting the outcome much either way to be honest. If Froome spanners it over the cobbles I'm not sure i'd have given Wiggo much more hope than Ritchie anyway

So, where does a classics/track rider find employment then?

On a purely emotional level, I've never ever warmed to Froome at all. Wiggins can be an utter knobend, but I can't help liking him most of the time. There's no doubt that Froome is the better racer now. But the recent stuff has left me actively disliking him. So purely in terms of connection with Froome, Bradley on the team would have helped me have an emotional engagement with the outcome. If Wiggins was riding for him then yeah, that would have been good enough for me: "come on Froome, well done Wiggins". Now it just feels a bit meh. It's always nicer to watch a race when you have someone you actually want to win it riding it. And that's a huge shame with the Tour starting on British roads. Froome's the champion, but Wiggins is the star. I suspect quite a few others have the same feeling.

spaceman147

ddraver wrote:

David Millar @millarmind
Having a nice Friday at the office @franmillar? Nothing like a quiet, chilled out day before the weekend. TGIF huh?! Lovely.

Fran Millar ‏@franmillar
@millarmind you're a d*ck.

Quality

Pross

I've been looking at the Vuelta route and really can't see it suiting Wiggins - 2 very short TTs versus quite a few MTFs and smaller uphill finishes designed for JRod to take bonus seconds. Besides, if he got sent there as leader Henao is likely to get upset (assuming he's still in Sky's plans) or possibly Nieve.