Froome is looking rather lean!!

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Comments

  • argyllflyer
    argyllflyer Posts: 893
    Froome's a DNS today.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Still time for Quintana to develop a Giro-missing niggle allowing renewed focus on the tour. Although the virulent strain of yellow fever might put him off:

    2010: Schleck - crocked crack
    2011: Cadel - virus
    2012: Wiggins - monkey business
    2013: Froome - crocked

    Coincidence? I don't think so.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Hincape's leg must be a nightmare to massage.
    _
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Hincape's leg must be a nightmare to massage.

    or shave
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    argyllflyer wrote:
    Froome's a DNS today.

    I'm starting to wonder if Sky / Kerrison are starting to find out why cycling teams did things differently. I can certainly see the sense in bringing in things that work from other sports and trying them and in this situation it appears to have paid off quickly but maybe what's sustainable for someone racing 20 minutes maximum at a time in a temperature controlled swimming pool isn't sustainable for people racing hours at a time in all weather conditions? The traditionalists may not have the science to back up their methods but sometimes there's no substitute for empirical evidence. Discuss.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Pross wrote:
    argyllflyer wrote:
    Froome's a DNS today.

    I'm starting to wonder if Sky / Kerrison are starting to find out why cycling teams did things differently. I can certainly see the sense in bringing in things that work from other sports and trying them and in this situation it appears to have paid off quickly but maybe what's sustainable for someone racing 20 minutes maximum at a time in a temperature controlled swimming pool isn't sustainable for people racing hours at a time in all weather conditions? The traditionalists may not have the science to back up their methods but sometimes there's no substitute for empirical evidence. Discuss.

    They admitted last year having the "classics" squad training it the sun all winter, did them no good when they arrived in the north and it was freezing and wet.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Pross wrote:
    argyllflyer wrote:
    Froome's a DNS today.

    I'm starting to wonder if Sky / Kerrison are starting to find out why cycling teams did things differently. I can certainly see the sense in bringing in things that work from other sports and trying them and in this situation it appears to have paid off quickly but maybe what's sustainable for someone racing 20 minutes maximum at a time in a temperature controlled swimming pool isn't sustainable for people racing hours at a time in all weather conditions? The traditionalists may not have the science to back up their methods but sometimes there's no substitute for empirical evidence. Discuss.
    The traditionalist's approach is to get sick riders to keep riding. A lot of the traditional culture is to keep quiet if you are not feeling well to DSs don't think you are 'weak'
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Yep, but it's their GT riders who seem to be struggling this season. I'm wondering whether it is overload causing injury, illness and fatigue. Wiggins had a disastrous season last year, it's easy for people to suggest he wasn't bothered but he had seemed keen going into the Giro. Having more or less taken a sabbatical for the rest of that season he is looking fresh again. Who knows, it could even explain the reason for JTL's drop in blood levels (which I think he initially suggested himself).
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    RichN95 wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    argyllflyer wrote:
    Froome's a DNS today.

    I'm starting to wonder if Sky / Kerrison are starting to find out why cycling teams did things differently. I can certainly see the sense in bringing in things that work from other sports and trying them and in this situation it appears to have paid off quickly but maybe what's sustainable for someone racing 20 minutes maximum at a time in a temperature controlled swimming pool isn't sustainable for people racing hours at a time in all weather conditions? The traditionalists may not have the science to back up their methods but sometimes there's no substitute for empirical evidence. Discuss.
    The traditionalist's approach is to get sick riders to keep riding. A lot of the traditional culture is to keep quiet if you are not feeling well to DSs don't think you are 'weak'

    But if a rider races when sick you will soon see a dip in results in any case.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Or maybe some of them are just a bit sick at the moment?

    There's probably lots of people who are a bit sick, if its a domestique from a middling to low ranking team that no one is going to really notice finishing 5-10 minutes down then well no one is going to notice, maybe we're only noticing because its a) a few big name riders - Froome and Porte and well it's b) Sky.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Given that cyclists eat and drink on the move while dirty, have road muck sprayed on them and have less than ideal body fat, I reckon there's a lot more riders ill than they let on.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    RichN95 wrote:
    Given that cyclists eat and drink on the move while dirty, have road muck sprayed on them and have less than ideal body fat, I reckon there's a lot more riders ill than they let on.

    Yep. Living in such close quarters, spending a lot of time on airplanes, being in different places all the time, being around different people all the time. None of this can help.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Above The Cows wrote:
    Or maybe some of them are just a bit sick at the moment?

    There's probably lots of people who are a bit sick, if its a domestique from a middling to low ranking team that no one is going to really notice finishing 5-10 minutes down then well no one is going to notice, maybe we're only noticing because its a) a few big name riders - Froome and Porte and well it's b) Sky.

    Thing is, it's noticeable as they've been unable to field a full team in 3 races in the last week and some of the riders have been out for a large chunk of the season so far. At what point do you start to worry at a lack of race miles? As it stands a team that had riders more or less fighting for GT leadership are now unable to field a realistic contender in a weak Giro starting line up and look short of decent stage win contenders too. They could be bluffing a bit I guess but hope not.
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Above The Cows wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Given that cyclists eat and drink on the move while dirty, have road muck sprayed on them and have less than ideal body fat, I reckon there's a lot more riders ill than they let on.

    Yep. Living in such close quarters, spending a lot of time on airplanes, being in different places all the time, being around different people all the time. None of this can help.

    A bit like spending too much time on this forum ... :shock:
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    None of the other teams this season have had issues with ill or fatigued riders. Managed to put proper and full teams out for every race more or less. Contador has not struggled with illness at all throughout his career despite having a brain condition. Dont think Merckx, Hinault, Kelly et al sat out of races due to a cough and they have a palmares and reputation to reflect that.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Pross wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    Or maybe some of them are just a bit sick at the moment?

    There's probably lots of people who are a bit sick, if its a domestique from a middling to low ranking team that no one is going to really notice finishing 5-10 minutes down then well no one is going to notice, maybe we're only noticing because its a) a few big name riders - Froome and Porte and well it's b) Sky.

    Thing is, it's noticeable as they've been unable to field a full team in 3 races in the last week and some of the riders have been out for a large chunk of the season so far. At what point do you start to worry at a lack of race miles? As it stands a team that had riders more or less fighting for GT leadership are now unable to field a realistic contender in a weak Giro starting line up and look short of decent stage win contenders too. They could be bluffing a bit I guess but hope not.

    I take your point about the lack of race miles, but how many other teams are really strong at the moment with multiple GT contenders? If any team lost their main GT contender then they'd be a little lost.

    Do we know if Sky's policy is the same on pulling sick riders as other teams? Are they more cautious than other teams? Which races are they targeting? I think they probably want to win Romandie more than Liege, so there's a spot of pre-emptive risk management going on.

    But to return to race miles, it seems like only a few years ago that people were arguing Wiggins and then Froome had peaked too soon and could never hold their form. That they were racing too much.

    And again there isn't this focus on other teams in the same way.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited April 2014
    frenchfighter wrote:
    None of the other teams this season have had issues with ill or fatigued riders. Managed to put proper and full teams out for every race more or less. Contador has not struggled with illness at all throughout his career despite having a brain condition. Dont think Merckx, Hinault, Kelly et al sat out of races due to a cough and they have a palmares and reputation to reflect that.

    2010: Contador suffers from allergies, drops out of contention in Critérium International
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3616/ ... z306a4keL4
    Contador battling the flu, will skip Spanish time trial championship defense
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4626/ ... z306bGsmC8
    2011: Alberto Contador still sick coming into Flèche Wallonne http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/04/ ... Vg6wGcM.99
    2013: Sick Alberto Contador can't face Cadel Evans at Criterium International http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/sic ... 6602134568
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    frenchfighter wrote:
    None of the other teams this season have had issues with ill or fatigued riders. Managed to put proper and full teams out for every race more or less...

    Come on Frenchie that just isn't true. Cav's been ill for starters and that's just off the top of my head. Can you really say you know the ins and outs of the health of everyone on say AG2R or Lampre?
    Crankbrother wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Given that cyclists eat and drink on the move while dirty, have road muck sprayed on them and have less than ideal body fat, I reckon there's a lot more riders ill than they let on.

    Yep. Living in such close quarters, spending a lot of time on airplanes, being in different places all the time, being around different people all the time. None of this can help.

    A bit like spending too much time on this forum ... :shock:

    :D
    Correlation is not causation.
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    None of the other teams this season have had issues with ill or fatigued riders. Managed to put proper and full teams out for every race more or less. Contador has not struggled with illness at all throughout his career despite having a brain condition. Dont think Merckx, Hinault, Kelly et al sat out of races due to a cough and they have a palmares and reputation to reflect that.

    2010: Contador suffers from allergies, drops out of contention in Critérium International
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3616/ ... z306a4keL4
    2011: Alberto Contador still sick coming into Flèche Wallonne http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/04/ ... Vg6wGcM.99
    2013: Sick Alberto Contador can't face Cadel Evans at Criterium International http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/sic ... 6602134568

    All very well Rich ... But Frenchie wrote him a note excusing him from games those days ...
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Crankbrother wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    None of the other teams this season have had issues with ill or fatigued riders. Managed to put proper and full teams out for every race more or less. Contador has not struggled with illness at all throughout his career despite having a brain condition. Dont think Merckx, Hinault, Kelly et al sat out of races due to a cough and they have a palmares and reputation to reflect that.

    2010: Contador suffers from allergies, drops out of contention in Critérium International
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3616/ ... z306a4keL4
    2011: Alberto Contador still sick coming into Flèche Wallonne http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/04/ ... Vg6wGcM.99
    2013: Sick Alberto Contador can't face Cadel Evans at Criterium International http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/sic ... 6602134568

    All very well Rich ... But Frenchie wrote him a note excusing him from games those days ...

    Alberto cannot take part in PE today, he has menstrual cramps. I actually know someone who tried this, forging a letter from their mum saying they had menstrual cramps. The teacher was having none of it and had to explain to said 14 year that this was impossible as he lacked the correct bits.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    None of the other teams this season have had issues with ill or fatigued riders. Managed to put proper and full teams out for every race more or less. Contador has not struggled with illness at all throughout his career despite having a brain condition. Dont think Merckx, Hinault, Kelly et al sat out of races due to a cough and they have a palmares and reputation to reflect that.

    2010: Contador suffers from allergies, drops out of contention in Critérium International
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3616/ ... z306a4keL4
    2011: Alberto Contador still sick coming into Flèche Wallonne http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/04/ ... Vg6wGcM.99
    2013: Sick Alberto Contador can't face Cadel Evans at Criterium International http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/sic ... 6602134568

    Eh? Need to try better Rich.
    2010, Contador races CI and wins the TT and comes 15th in GC. While ill. Prior to that race he had won the Volta ao Algarve, Paris Nice including a stage of each. After that he won Vuelta a Castilla y Leon, including a stage, was third at Fleche, 10th at LBL, won Dauphine, including two stages, and then won the Tour de France.
    2011 he won a bunch including the Giro.
    2013, he missed a minor two days of racing. Oh well.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    frenchfighter wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    None of the other teams this season have had issues with ill or fatigued riders. Managed to put proper and full teams out for every race more or less. Contador has not struggled with illness at all throughout his career despite having a brain condition. Dont think Merckx, Hinault, Kelly et al sat out of races due to a cough and they have a palmares and reputation to reflect that.

    2010: Contador suffers from allergies, drops out of contention in Critérium International
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3616/ ... z306a4keL4
    2011: Alberto Contador still sick coming into Flèche Wallonne http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/04/ ... Vg6wGcM.99
    2013: Sick Alberto Contador can't face Cadel Evans at Criterium International http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/sic ... 6602134568

    Eh? Need to try better Rich.
    2010, Contador races CI and wins the TT and comes 15th in GC. While ill. Prior to that race he had won the Volta ao Algarve, Paris Nice including a stage of each. After that he won Vuelta a Castilla y Leon, including a stage, was third at Fleche, 10th at LBL, won Dauphine, including two stages, and then won the Tour de France.
    2011 he won a bunch including the Giro.
    2013, he missed a minor two days of racing. Oh well.
    That's not the point! You explicitly said and I quote "Contador has not struggled with illness at all throughout his career". If that was actually true, he'd NEVER have missed any events or even struggled to perform, would he have?

    You're so full of sh*t.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    frenchfighter wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    None of the other teams this season have had issues with ill or fatigued riders. Managed to put proper and full teams out for every race more or less. Contador has not struggled with illness at all throughout his career despite having a brain condition. Dont think Merckx, Hinault, Kelly et al sat out of races due to a cough and they have a palmares and reputation to reflect that.

    2010: Contador suffers from allergies, drops out of contention in Critérium International
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3616/ ... z306a4keL4
    2011: Alberto Contador still sick coming into Flèche Wallonne http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/04/ ... Vg6wGcM.99
    2013: Sick Alberto Contador can't face Cadel Evans at Criterium International http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/sic ... 6602134568

    Eh? Need to try better Rich.
    2010, Contador races CI and wins the TT and comes 15th in GC. While ill. Prior to that race he had won the Volta ao Algarve, Paris Nice including a stage of each. After that he won Vuelta a Castilla y Leon, including a stage, was third at Fleche, 10th at LBL, won Dauphine, including two stages, and then won the Tour de France.
    2011 he won a bunch including the Giro.
    2013, he missed a minor two days of racing. Oh well.

    I mean he's proven that he struggled with illness, he couldn't follow attacks because of pollen,
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    My comments weren't to do with riders dropping out due to illness, I think that is usually the right thing to do as it's better to miss a short time racing than to carry on and either end up being out for longer or continuing without being at the required level (whether that's as team leader or in a support role). I was just considering whether there's a reason for the amount of / length of injuries and illness and whether such a heavy training schedule over a two year period is to blame. Dombrowski and Boswell have struggled since joining the team, JTL said he found the training load too hard (yes, there were probably other considerations). I thought it was just something worthy of discussion rather than a reason to criticise riders for not competing whilst not fit.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Pross wrote:
    My comments weren't to do with riders dropping out due to illness, I think that is usually the right thing to do as it's better to miss a short time racing than to carry on and either end up being out for longer or continuing without being at the required level (whether that's as team leader or in a support role). I was just considering whether there's a reason for the amount of / length of injuries and illness and whether such a heavy training schedule over a two year period is to blame. Dombrowski and Boswell have struggled since joining the team, JTL said he found the training load too hard (yes, there were probably other considerations). I thought it was just something worthy of discussion rather than a reason to criticise riders for not competing whilst not fit.

    Do you reckon it is ok to not compete in races due to illness or fatigue but at the same time train hard up mountains?

    With regard your point, it is definitely something I guess they are looking at. Having these young lads ride on the front for 100km is not going to do them any good. Eisel or Kiri et al can do that.
    Earle is a hardy rider like Porte but I hope that he doesnt get crushed by Sky.
    Was one reason I was very happy Yates brothers had the intelligence to go to Orica not Sky.
    Adam Yates: "If I went to Sky then I'd end up working on the front like a slave"
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    The Yates' will be out of action soon enough ... Both scheduled for neck reductions at some point ;)
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Pross wrote:
    My comments weren't to do with riders dropping out due to illness, I think that is usually the right thing to do as it's better to miss a short time racing than to carry on and either end up being out for longer or continuing without being at the required level (whether that's as team leader or in a support role). I was just considering whether there's a reason for the amount of / length of injuries and illness and whether such a heavy training schedule over a two year period is to blame. Dombrowski and Boswell have struggled since joining the team, JTL said he found the training load too hard (yes, there were probably other considerations). I thought it was just something worthy of discussion rather than a reason to criticise riders for not competing whilst not fit.

    I totally see what your saying and I have wondered the same thing, I guess the answer though is we don't know and we probably never will. How do you know whether you got sick because of fatigue or because of a particularly nasty virus and some bad luck? And again I'm genuinely wondering whether this level of illness is particularly bad i.e. against the norm or whether or not we're just noticing it because its Sky.

    Who is sick/has been sick? Froome, Porte, Kennaugh? Anyone else?
    Correlation is not causation.
  • tuneskyline
    tuneskyline Posts: 370
    He's obviously had health issues. His veiny legs suggest he's kept himself in good shape and they want him to go into the mini tour this week in good shape to test his form. Its just a shame Contador is not there.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    The food they get must do wonders for their bodies though. It just looks amazing.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Do you reckon it is ok to not compete in races due to illness or fatigue but at the same time train hard up mountains?

    No. But once they are over the illness I don't see a problem with such training to get back to race fitness.

    I agree about not putting inexperienced riders on the front (unless they have Stannard like engines) for long stints on the flat but I'm not convinced Boswell, Edmonson or Dombrowski have been used that way. When they've been used on the front it will have been for short stints to pace climbs. I certainly don't have a problem with them doing bottle duties or relaying a protected rider who has punctured, you learn a lot of bunch skills doing that and every team will have their young riders / neo pros doing similar. Putting young riders under pressure to get results can also be damaging (although some are just built for it like Sagan).

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