J T-L

adr82

TailWindHome wrote:

JSCL wrote:

awavey wrote:

Plymouth Herald speak to JT-L...
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/EXCLUSIVE-Jon-Tiernan-Locke-t-afford-clear/story-22783784-detail/story.html

There's lots of reading in there that really stands out as the JTL that I recognise.

He's a rider that fell in love with bike racing and the feeling which comes with that. I don't believe for one second he could afford to engage in doping or would have the mindset to do so.

The bio passport exists for a reason and I think that it's going to serve the sport well. But this has shown a failing of it in my opinion.

*Removed part of post*

So....why do you think the passport has failed?

Because it caught out a rider he likes

lostboysaint

LIKE

Art Vandelay

The Plymouth press continue their crusade:
http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/C ... story.html

You'll always get a few people who'll only lose their faith when they hear the truth from the horse's mouth. Perhaps the journo should start a 'JTL Fairness Fund'? The precedent is there - Floyd Landis's raised levels of testosterone were blamed on 'two beers and at least four shots of whiskey' so it's no wonder 33 units of alcohol has had this profound effect on TIernan-Locke's blood values.

jimmythecuckoo

This brings back all the memories of that amateur guy from a few years back who started owning the Rapha and Endura teams.

All very messy.

Pross

adr82 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

JSCL wrote:

awavey wrote:

Plymouth Herald speak to JT-L...
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/EXCLUSIVE-Jon-Tiernan-Locke-t-afford-clear/story-22783784-detail/story.html

There's lots of reading in there that really stands out as the JTL that I recognise.

He's a rider that fell in love with bike racing and the feeling which comes with that. I don't believe for one second he could afford to engage in doping or would have the mindset to do so.

The bio passport exists for a reason and I think that it's going to serve the sport well. But this has shown a failing of it in my opinion.

*Removed part of post*

So....why do you think the passport has failed?

Because it caught out a rider he likes

Seems spot on. There seems to be a belief that you have to be a horrible person to dope and therefore that if you aren't a horrible person you can't be a doper.

ContrelaMontre

dish_dash wrote:

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/CYCLING-cycling-s-High-Court-got-wrong-Jonathan/story-22789761-detail/story.html

Betteridge's law states that the answer to questions posed in newspaper headlines is always 'no'.

eh

Considering CAS have upheld Roman Kreuziger's suspension, then that Herald article looks pretty silly.

I also love this

his Endura Racing team manager Brian Smith has always insisted that there is no way that Tiernan-Locke ‘cheated’ under his care.

No mention that this is the same Brian Smith who never saw or believed that LA or Yates or any of his other dodgy teammates cheated. :roll:

bdu98252

JLT was caught bang to rights and this is clearly detailed in the reports findings. The reason that the bio passport scheme is so effective is that in the past you just had to be organised to avoid getting caught with a little bit of luck in off season testing. Now you have to start doping and continue doping throughout the life of your career and to a very accurate level. Even if you do this there would be a consistent gap between your hemocrit level and the levels that you are producing which would highlight that they are coming from an unnatural source hence the fail in this case. This is likely to be unachievable to pretty much all humans as we are not robots and we would also need to be conducting the doping tests on ourselves regularly and interpreting the results to ensure that we are consistent. If you went round a professional athletes house and it looked like a lab then this is likely to raise a few eyebrows. This is beside the fact that they would have to understand the science which is unlikely to be achievable whilst training as a professional athlete.

andrewjoseph

I like the way JTL thinks he can ride to a professional standard after being so ill that he doesn't drink any water for over 36 hours until just prior or during the race. But it's alright because he didn't vomit or have the runs. And nobody noticed he wasn't drinking or had a hangover.

I dunno, when I've got a hangover the first thing I do is try to drink water!

I'm pretty sure that if he was dehydrated enough to crash his system so hard it altered his blood values, he wouldn't have been able to find his bike!

mfin

I like the "I'm thick, but I haven't failed a test so I will make up some stuff I think will get me off the hook whilst unable to recognise it will be shown up as fairy-story-daft when under scientific scrutiny" of people like JTL and AC. It's funny.

Pross

andrewjoseph wrote:

I like the way JTL thinks he can ride to a professional standard after being so ill that he doesn't drink any water for over 36 hours until just prior or during the race. But it's alright because he didn't vomit or have the runs. And nobody noticed he wasn't drinking or had a hangover.

I dunno, when I've got a hangover the first thing I do is try to drink water!

I'm pretty sure that if he was dehydrated enough to crash his system so hard it altered his blood values, he wouldn't have been able to find his bike!

When I've got a hangover everyone delights in pointing out to me I look like s**t. It tends to be in a taking the mick way to me but if I was a professional sportsman about to take part in a major race I think my management team might notice it and not take it too lightly!!

danlikesbikes

Now saying this according to road.cc

http://road.cc/content/news/128553-jona ... leared-him

Basically took another test that would have cleared him, interesting to read a comment at the bottom that The authorities were not ignoring the other test just had a differing opinion of what it meant.

joelsim

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Now saying this according to road.cc

http://road.cc/content/news/128553-jona ... leared-him

Basically took another test that would have cleared him, interesting to read a comment at the bottom that The authorities were not ignoring the other test just had a differing opinion of what it meant.

Utter sh*te. If Sky had believed that, surely they would have backed him????

danlikesbikes

Joelsim wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Now saying this according to road.cc

http://road.cc/content/news/128553-jona ... leared-him

Basically took another test that would have cleared him, interesting to read a comment at the bottom that The authorities were not ignoring the other test just had a differing opinion of what it meant.

Utter sh*te. If Sky had believed that, surely they would have backed him????

That's kinda what I was thinking when I read it, but have to admit I've not read through the full reasoned report so not sure what the authorities view was regarding this test.

Guess if your banned for drink driving and failed due to a blood test (or 2 what ever the procedure is) and then afterwards said well I've had another test done that doesn't follow the guidelines needed but it would possibly have cleared me if the other tests didn't exist I might have a point

RichN95.

Danlikesbikes wrote:

That's kinda what I was thinking when I read it, but have to admit I've not read through the full reasoned report so not sure what the authorities view was regarding this test.

They disregarded it because only tests which meet the rigorous standards regarding the collection and measurement process can be considered.
It's a fallacy though to say that the test would have cleared him. The case has to rely on the official tests and they need to show that without a shadow of a doubt he doped based on those results alone, regardless of what other results there may have been. If there are theoretical figures which could cause doubt (whether they actually happened or not), then they cannot convict.

danlikesbikes

Cheers RichN95 just reading the full report now.

Does make for an interesting read but a little late for just light reading

Pokerface

I'm not clear on the science here, but presuming he did indeed dope (maybe EPO?) - he was obviously caught out by one test - but would it not be normal for his blood values to come down again in a short period of time?

Even if the second test was done within the guidelines, etc - is it a certainty that it would clear him if he WAS doping when he was tested but it was out of his system by the time he did the second test?

Or is this just another PR exercise?

Yellow Peril

It's just irrelevant. The dehydration excuse is so unbelievable even if read in isolation

danlikesbikes

Reading the full UKAD ruling suggests that (1) yes it would be expected (2) they were only looking at the first test for the ruling, as they discounted JLT's medical experts opinion.

einriba

So far then the JTL excuse bag is:

1> I was drunk and therefore dehydrated
2> I'm innocent but can't afford the costs to clear my name
3> I have another sample that the testers aren't interested in.

Blow me JTL......is excuse #4 gonna be "i had a TUE but the dog ate it".

mechanism

What's the accepted standard delay between ban and confession these days? 1 to 2 years? Might be waiting a while.

joelsim

Jonathan The-Liar

danlikesbikes

Pokerface wrote:

I'm not clear on the science here, but presuming he did indeed dope (maybe EPO?) - he was obviously caught out by one test - but would it not be normal for his blood values to come down again in a short period of time?

Even if the second test was done within the guidelines, etc - is it a certainty that it would clear him if he WAS doping when he was tested but it was out of his system by the time he did the second test?

Or is this just another PR exercise?

Under the ruling they were only looking at a single test as the results were rather extreme, as opposed to series of tests either are considered acceptable for use in rules like these.

His blood values could have comedown quite quickly yes, but they could have (if that second test) still ruled on the first test, so no the second test would not have cleared him even if it was within the rules and not abnormal.

rob churchill

The only thing the second test demonstrates is that Sky were perhaps a little more diligent than some have given them credit for.

disgruntledgoat

FFS just cop to it. Better to be known as a cheat than a lying cheat.

mulletmaster

In fairness I have seen folks dehydrate themselves so much due to booze that they have developed a blood clot in the veins of their brain. As you might imagine though that chap wouldn't have been up to much at the world champs a few days later.
I cannot see how anyone would be in bits so much that they couldn't get the fluid on board inside 24h and still be fit for a world class performance in the same week. Much more likely he is a lying cheat.

takethehighroad

How are we STILL talking about this?

Surely a LOT more interesting things have happened since he got busted

outcastjack

Shame really, if that excuse is the best you can come up with why not just come clean?

Proof that nice guys do sometimes cheat.

awavey

and now interviewed by their chief rugby correspondent, the Times presents an "exclusive" interview... http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/cycling/article4192613.ece?shareToken=d2ca397642b97ac15bd994b633c04024

Ive no idea what to make of that :?

danlikesbikes

awavey wrote:

and now interviewed by their chief rugby correspondent, the Times presents an "exclusive" interview... http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/cycling/article4192613.ece?shareToken=d2ca397642b97ac15bd994b633c04024

Ive no idea what to make of that :?

It's a well written piece, but leaves all the questions unanswered still.

If he's not going to fight his case then perhaps he should stop giving interviews saying what's the point but in innocent honest.