Vuelta al País Vasco 2014 **Spoilers**

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  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Mike__ wrote:
    Anyone know what happened Pete Kennaugh yesterday? Thought he'd be up there mixing it with the GC boys, was a bit disappointed to see that he finished 18 mins back.

    Pure speculation :shock: but it makes sense to me that they are keen to provide the defending Tour champion more support than last year when it seemed half the team arrived pre-flogged. I think I recall Froome saying that he was cool with the leadership gig this year so was less desperate to win on every outing. These may be related.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Eh? So Sky are able to rock up to most stage races (unless you are Spanish attacker Nieve) and roll around with the gruppetto? How does this help them perform better in July? How does this demonstrate a love of the sport and a care for the fans?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Wonder kid, touted as the man with the incredible numbers, just gave up. He knew he couldnt roll with the big boys and didnt fancy helping his Spanish colleague in his home race. Or something like that.

    Point of order. We can't be both, a factory product incapable of original thought, and free-styling at the back off one's face on homeopathic placebos.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,431
    Macaloon wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Wonder kid, touted as the man with the incredible numbers, just gave up. He knew he couldnt roll with the big boys and didnt fancy helping his Spanish colleague in his home race. Or something like that.

    Point of order. We can't be both, a factory product incapable of original thought, and free-styling at the back off one's face on homeopathic placebos.

    What's this 'we' business? :lol:
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Eh? So [REDACTED]* are able to rock up to most stage races (unless you are Spanish attacker Nieve) and roll around with the gruppetto? How does this help them perform better in July? How does this demonstrate a love of the sport and a care for the fans?

    Hardly the grupetto. Amongst riders taking a packet of >10 mins were Tony Martin, Jan Bakelandts, Ben Swift, and a whole host of breakaway/attack merchants.

    *Watching my numbers
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    TailWindHome wrote:
    What's this 'we' business? :lol:

    So hard to stay detached when you get Frenchie 'on the couch'.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    000_dv1701613_670.jpg

    "The last time I won a race that wasn't a TT was at Tour of Beijing in 2012 when I attacked on the descent. Normally when I win on the road the races are at smaller stage races," said Martin. "But I have to say a win like today is also special. I think I was strong in my head also and in the final of the stage I thought of the stage of La Vuelta last year. I said to myself 'this time, it won't happen again.'"

    "I came here to try and do something good in the GC," Martin said. "But yesterday the final was too hard for a rider like me. So after yesterday I decided to focus on the breakaways and of course the TT. This morning I was really motivated. Everybody wanted to try and go. Jan and I went, and for OPQS it was the perfect situation. We collaborated really well with the other guys in the breakaway. The final was hard. It wasn't long climbs, but a lot of up and down like a small Amstel Gold Race."

    "When I went, to me it was kind of like a time trial until the end. I knew in the last 10 kilometers it was possible to win with a one-minute gap. I want to also thank Jan, because he let me go and he gave up his chance in my favor. This is the team spirit of OPQS and the victory is also for him and the whole team."

    "I also have good condition, and I will try to take advantage of this in the time trial. I checked the profile and there are two climbs, which is not so easy for me. But, with the morale and this condition, I will go 100 percent for this race."
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    ^ Good point. I like stage races where guys like Martin and Bakelandts can win - this year's PN. They need chaos to win.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    As was this:

    mrconde 4:02pm via Twitter for iPhone
    You wonder why Team Sky didn't start to help out GreenEdge earlier, knowing how strong Swifty is right now. Big tactical mistake... #itzulia
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Mike__ wrote:
    Anyone know what happened Pete Kennaugh yesterday? Thought he'd be up there mixing it with the GC boys, was a bit disappointed to see that he finished 18 mins back.

    Wonder kid, touted as the man with the incredible numbers, just gave up. He knew he couldnt roll with the big boys and didnt fancy helping his Spanish colleague in his home race. Or something like that.


    Kennaugh wins his first stage race and so naturally becomes your next and latest in a long line of Sky rider objects of disgust. S'ok, we get it. We get that every time he races you'll have comments to make. Till the next guy pops up on your horizon. It's part of your unique charm.

    (Btw I'm never read any boasting about his 'incredible numbers' in relation to the road - but happy if you know better)

    Talking of people 'rolling around', losing only a few secs less than PK yday, not helping his French team mate Peraud etc - what's going on with Betancur? DNF today, DNF Catalunya..

    'How does this demonstrate a love for the sport and a care for the fans'? *wrings hands*

    Doesn't look great for the Ardennes campaign at this rate.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Mike__ wrote:
    Anyone know what happened Pete Kennaugh yesterday? Thought he'd be up there mixing it with the GC boys, was a bit disappointed to see that he finished 18 mins back.

    Wonder kid, touted as the man with the incredible numbers, just gave up. He knew he couldnt roll with the big boys and didnt fancy helping his Spanish colleague in his home race. Or something like that.


    Kennaugh wins his first stage race and so naturally becomes your next and latest in a long line of Sky rider objects of disgust. S'ok, we get it. We get that every time he races you'll have comments to make. Till the next guy pops up on your horizon. It's part of your unique charm.

    (Btw I'm never read any boasting about his 'incredible numbers' in relation to the road - but happy if you know better)
    In fairness, he was being touted as a future TDF winner. Just had a bad day and struggled apparently. It does happen.
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Talking of people 'rolling around', losing only a few secs less than PK yday, not helping his French team mate Peraud etc - what's going on with Betancur? DNF today, DNF Catalunya..

    'How does this demonstrate a love for the sport and a care for the fans'? *wrings hands*

    Doesn't look great for the Ardennes campaign at this rate.
    This kind of childish 'you've slagged off my man so I'm going to take a pop at yours' nonsense is one of the reasons I can rarely be bothered with this site anymore.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Dead Calm, if you read my posts you'll see that I rarely go in for slagging off riders.

    My point re Betancur is primarily about consistency: consistency of how riders performances get picked over. And the issue of riders' consistency itself. I understand that riders have good days and bad days - from those at the very top to those lower down the development curve. There are times when things just aren't clicking: a bad day, a bad race - can be down to all kinds of different factors - sickness, dip in form, stuff going on away from racing, the legs just not being there - whatever.

    Just perhaps a bit of understanding that none of them ARE actually robots. And maybe take a bit of encouragement that in these hopefully less-charged times, riders and teams aren't all turning to chemical remedies to avoid bad days in the saddle.
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    RR's a bit early with the breakfast wine, no?

    Joking aside, it does seem like there is a bit of 'If we can't win we're not trying (or in most cases not even making the start line)' amongst those guaranteed their place on the squad ... I get that to lose the aura of stage race dominance may help rivals, but to not try or show up shows a lack of fight that will only serve to motivate other teams ...
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    I was thinking the same thing about Betancur.
    Brilliant in Haut Var and PN, a couple of weeks later, unable to finish a race.
    A similar story to last year. Great Giro, Bus material throughout the Vuelta.
    Worrying trend.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Surprisingly appetizing preview to accompany your Eggs Buckfast. They shrunk MSR:

    Pais_Vasco_Stage3.JPG

    Bonus pick of Ben Swift motivating the $h!t out of other teams.

    BktVKlOIcAE7VYo.png
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    RR, re Betancur - he has been a little inconsistent this year but he has won a lot especially for a bloke with a heavy off-season. He is 6th overall in CQranking, has three stage wins and two overall classification wins - likely more than is expected of him and certainly more points per salary than majority of the peloton.

    Re PK, as far as I am aware he is earmarked for greatness and have read it here and other places. You reckon this isn't the case? I reckon he is very good when he wants to be but not a rider I can be excited by. He has a very red face under effort as well. He won Coppi in fine style as I mentioned on the spoiler. The opposition was weak but you can only beat who is put in front of you.

    My issue is that Sky seem to be full gas or nothing in addition to only wanting to help Porte or Froome. Maybe this is a technique? Ride hard when you need to and sit back and come in 10-30mins down otherwise? A luxury almost all other teams don't have - they dont get paid to soft pedal in almost all races apart from a handful.

    Younger riders than PK are often always up there - Barguil, Yates etc. Not sure what happened with Chavez though yesterday? Maybe buried himself on the front for Matthews, Albasini, Gerrans then sat up.

    Did you see where all the Sky riders came yesterday? Seriously, placing like a pro conti team. ZERO support for Nieve - pretty sure Contador will recruit Nieve next year. The only Sky rider in the mix is Seb Henao - there helping Nieve in his first year as a pro. After all he comes to race and he comes from a tough background where they cant sit back and the money will roll in. Team Sky are 12/19 in the Team classification.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    I was thinking the same thing about Betancur.
    Brilliant in Haut Var and PN, a couple of weeks later, unable to finish a race.
    A similar story to last year. Great Giro, Bus material throughout the Vuelta.
    Worrying trend.


    And look at Evans. You dont know whether he's going to be up with the elites on mountain stages or losing a packet, from race to race.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Re:Sky.
    Thing is, if Sky are always at the front, controlling races, people complain bitterly that it's boring.
    (I don't disagree)
    They do this if they have a contender they feel able to compete and beat riders of the calibre of Contador and Valverde. If not, why bother when you know that Movistar and Tinkoff are going to do the same job?
    As long as Nieve had a rider in support for the final few kms run in, why shouldn't the rest knock it off and sit up?
    For instance, Bob Jungels was only caught on the final climb but rolled in 5 minutes down.
    In terms of expending effort: If there is no point, what is the point?

    As for putting men in any potential break..........
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    There is a difference between blowing up the front of the race and coming in the same time as the GC bunch.
    Agreed, if they cant be bothered to help their team leader then maybe they can go in a break? Or maybe their science tells them breaks have such a low chance of succeeding that it is pointless going in them? and/or their sponsor doesnt care about exposure their company will get in the break so they dont bother for that reason either?
    Why are they even in this race? May as well go to somewhere hot and comfortable and train?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Bkt49QJIIAArpKb.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    DeadCalm wrote:

    In fairness, he was being touted as a future TDF winner. Just had a bad day and struggled apparently. It does happen

    As is everyone that does anything at Sky - at some point people have to stop regurgitating what sensationalist journalists write and think for themselves a bit...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    edited April 2014
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Re:Sky.
    Thing is, if Sky are always at the front, controlling races, people complain bitterly that it's boring.
    (I don't disagree)
    They do this if they have a contender they feel able to compete and beat riders of the calibre of Contador and Valverde. If not, why bother when you know that Movistar and Tinkoff are going to do the same job?
    As long as Nieve had a rider in support for the final few kms run in, why shouldn't the rest knock it off and sit up?
    For instance, Bob Jungels was only caught on the final climb but rolled in 5 minutes down.
    In terms of expending effort: If there is no point, what is the point?

    As for putting men in any potential break..........


    Re putting guys in the break, there was an interesting comment from Ian Boswell in a recent'ish interview. Said that the team's style is usually to ride on the front, and that when they try to put guys in a break other teams often react to that because it suits the rest of the teams for Sky do hard yards on the front - and save the others' their energy.

    If I can find the link to the interview with the exact quote, I'll post it.

    I do know that during last year's Vuelta, once it became obvious early on that Henao didnt have the legs for GC, they tried almost every day to put guys in a break that would stick - with only occasional success.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Why are they even in this race? May as well go to somewhere hot and comfortable and train?

    Becasue they re ProTour and they have to be?

    Same reason Spanish and Italian Teams are in the Classics...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Kennaugh has been touted as a future GC rider, I don't think that has just come from sensationalist journalists, in fact are the cycling press sensationalist anyway?

    That aside yes anyone can have a bad day, depends why he had a bad day. He's 24 now, if he wants to fulfill his potential on the road he should be forcing the issue a bit, he may not be team leader here but no harm in making people take notice by finishing up there with the leader, this is pretty much how Froome and Uran have moved on in their careers. The other thing he should do is bin the team pursuiting.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Kennaugh has been touted as a future GC rider, I don't think that has just come from sensationalist journalists, in fact are the cycling press sensationalist anyway?

    That aside yes anyone can have a bad day, depends why he had a bad day. He's 24 now, if he wants to fulfill his potential on the road he should be forcing the issue a bit, he may not be team leader here but no harm in making people take notice by finishing up there with the leader, this is pretty much how Froome and Uran have moved on in their careers. The other thing he should do is bin the team pursuiting.


    Dont disagree on that point. Tbf he's not done any since the Olympics. But yeah, really hoping he's not tempted to go back for 2016.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    MFS Stage 2: http://www.manualforspeed.com/pro-tour/ ... -stage-02/
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Talking of a rider who's been up and down so far this season - Uran. Started the season well, but was well off the pace in T-A and Catalunya.

    Lefevere says Uran's ill with 'helicobacter pylori'. Now on antibiotics, sent back home to Colombia. No Ardennes for him. Dont know what this could mean for his Giro start.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Kennaugh has been touted as a future GC rider, I don't think that has just come from sensationalist journalists, in fact are the cycling press sensationalist anyway?

    Well who has then? If you think so can you tell me what he's done that elevates him above the many other talented young pros in the Pro Tour today?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    ddraver wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Kennaugh has been touted as a future GC rider, I don't think that has just come from sensationalist journalists, in fact are the cycling press sensationalist anyway?

    Well who has then? If you think so can you tell me what he's done that elevates him above the many other talented young pros in the Pro Tour today?

    I've read it in plenty of places for quite a while. Try google I'm sure you'll come up with plenty of talk about him being a future GC man at grand tours. For example.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... s-eye.html
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Talking of a rider who's been up and down so far this season - Uran. Started the season well, but was well off the pace in T-A and Catalunya.

    Lefevere says Uran's ill with 'helicobacter pylori'. Now on antibiotics, sent back home to Colombia. No Ardennes for him. Dont know what this could mean for his Giro start.

    Gee that is not good. Would be a real shame to not see him in the Ardennes and Giro.
    I like Uran a lot and since reading the last piece on Cycling Inquisition on him that has gone up again.
    Contador is the Greatest

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