Henao withdrawn from racing

phreak

Bit harsh there surely? I mean Sky riders were 2nd in the Giro, won the Tour and had a poor Vuelta. I suspect most teams would have traded that.

Compare that to 2012, where they achieved 7th in the Giro, 1st in the Tour, and 4th in the Vuelta. You might argue that this is more consistent, but both years are decent imo.

above_the_cows

Macaloon wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

I don't. I'm saying we cannot know everything. There are too many variables. You can have great form on paper and you can fall off. You can be weaker than the competition and they can fall off. All you can do is turn up with the best possible team you can put together for the parcours, control what you can control and for everything else hope that lady luck is also on your side.

I was talking about the application of bleeding-edge sports science. Not acts of god :roll:

The stage race team was cooked on arrival at the 2013 Tour. They don't care about the Vuelta. World championships LOL. Other than Froome, Wiggo, and some classics guys, the stage-race squad has been invisible in big races this year. Porte is their 2nd highest CQ-ranked rider (43rd). They have 2 riders in Top 50 of the Giro (31st and 43rd). AG2R have 2 riders (6th & 14th) in the top 20.

If Froome goes down they don't even have a plan C. That's a pathetic record.

But surely this just shows the limits of sports-science while also its possibilities. The team was cooked at last year's Tour but you cannot say the same will happen this year as it hasn't happened yet. You could argue that the team have learnt from last year and that is why they have been 'invisible', whatever that really means, using sports science to ensure that riders arrive at the Tour as strong as possible. I'm not sure what you're really expecting, that they dominate every race? No one dominates every race.

I would also ask what other team has a plan C capable of stepping in and winning a GT?

tuneskyline

Most teams only have one real contender for the tour. Froome has been out most of the season so Victorys have been non existent. Having said that Contador has been so good this year I doubt he could have been beaten by
Froome. I do think the injury thing has been played up a bit as going into the tour having been destroyed by a flying Contador would put Froome and his boys at a disadvantage. At least now by not racing they can build their confidence with form.

If Andy Schleck is in good shape then everyone may as well go home.

above_the_cows

tuneskyline wrote:

Most teams only have one real contender for the tour. Froome has been out most of the season so Victorys have been non existent. Having said that Contador has been so good this year I doubt he could have been beaten by
Froome. I do think the injury thing has been played up a bit as going into the tour having been destroyed by a flying Contador would put Froome and his boys at a disadvantage. At least now by not racing they can build their confidence with form.

If Andy Schleck is in good shape then everyone may as well go home.

Apart from in Oman and Romandie which Froome won.

Your faith in the Schlecklette is honourable, someone has to love Andy.

frenchfighter

So if he is back racing are we going to have a statement from Sky saying he is clean? Saying they have messed up his year?

If Seb wasnt racing for them now I could see Sergio moving to OPQS next year.

Macaloon

phreak wrote:

Bit harsh there surely? I mean Sky riders were 2nd in the Giro, won the Tour and had a poor Vuelta. I suspect most teams would have traded that.

Compare that to 2012, where they achieved 7th in the Giro, 1st in the Tour, and 4th in the Vuelta. You might argue that this is more consistent, but both years are decent imo.

Perhaps a soupçon of hysteria. I was responding to the 'strength of squad' sentiments. Froome may well win again with little team support, but I doubt Alberto will be as generous as Alessandro was last year.

Above The Cows wrote:

But surely this just shows the limits of sports-science while also its possibilities. The team was cooked at last year's Tour but you cannot say the same will happen this year as it hasn't happened yet. You could argue that the team have learnt from last year and that is why they have been 'invisible', whatever that really means, using sports science to ensure that riders arrive at the Tour as strong as possible. I'm not sure what you're really expecting, that they dominate every race? No one dominates every race.

I would also ask what other team has a plan C capable of stepping in and winning a GT?

1. Never mind the Tour, what happened to the Giro squad? And why will it be different at the Tour?
2. It's sport. I expect you to be competitive. Where have I suggested winning everything?
3. Teams with riders in the Top 20 of the Giro: OPQS (2), BMC, Tinkoff, Movi (2), AG2R (2), Belkin, Europcar, Trek, Garmin, Cannondale, BMC, Androni, FDJ, Neri Sottoli, Colombia.

I think this performance is taking the piss. DB is famed for his stats-porn. What's gone wrong?

Anonymous

Macaloon wrote:

1. Never mind the Tour, what happened to the Giro squad? And why will it be different at the Tour?
2. It's sport. I expect you to be competitive. Where have I suggested winning everything?
3. Teams with riders in the Top 20 of the Giro: OPQS (2), BMC, Tinkoff, Movi (2), AG2R (2), Belkin, Europcar, Trek, Garmin, Cannondale, BMC, Androni, FDJ, Neri Sottoli, Colombia.

I think this performance is taking the wee-wee. DB is famed for his stats-porn. What's gone wrong?

How many of the Giro squad are going to be in the tour squad? Siutsou is the only one I think, maybe Deignan.

They had changes to the team late twice for the Giro, so that's affected it but who knows whats worse.

Turfle

Macaloon wrote:

phreak wrote:

Bit harsh there surely? I mean Sky riders were 2nd in the Giro, won the Tour and had a poor Vuelta. I suspect most teams would have traded that.

Compare that to 2012, where they achieved 7th in the Giro, 1st in the Tour, and 4th in the Vuelta. You might argue that this is more consistent, but both years are decent imo.

Perhaps a soupçon of hysteria. I was responding to the 'strength of squad' sentiments. Froome may well win again with little team support, but I doubt Alberto will be as generous as Alessandro was last year.

Above The Cows wrote:

But surely this just shows the limits of sports-science while also its possibilities. The team was cooked at last year's Tour but you cannot say the same will happen this year as it hasn't happened yet. You could argue that the team have learnt from last year and that is why they have been 'invisible', whatever that really means, using sports science to ensure that riders arrive at the Tour as strong as possible. I'm not sure what you're really expecting, that they dominate every race? No one dominates every race.

I would also ask what other team has a plan C capable of stepping in and winning a GT?

1. Never mind the Tour, what happened to the Giro squad? And why will it be different at the Tour?
2. It's sport. I expect you to be competitive. Where have I suggested winning everything?
3. Teams with riders in the Top 20 of the Giro: OPQS (2), BMC, Tinkoff, Movi (2), AG2R (2), Belkin, Europcar, Trek, Garmin, Cannondale, BMC, Androni, FDJ, Neri Sottoli, Colombia.

I think this performance is taking the wee-wee. DB is famed for his stats-porn. What's gone wrong?

Top 20 GC? Really?

As you know, because you pointed it out, Siutsou was top 20 before his crash. And he lost 3 minutes 30 due to a previous crash. Give that time back and he's top 10! Success!

tuneskyline

Above The Cows wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

Most teams only have one real contender for the tour. Froome has been out most of the season so Victorys have been non existent. Having said that Contador has been so good this year I doubt he could have been beaten by
Froome. I do think the injury thing has been played up a bit as going into the tour having been destroyed by a flying Contador would put Froome and his boys at a disadvantage. At least now by not racing they can build their confidence with form.

If Andy Schleck is in good shape then everyone may as well go home.

Apart from in Oman and Romandie which Froome won.

Your faith in the Schlecklette is honourable, someone has to love Andy.

I forgot about those races because I just did and I just don't care because I am a wasp

bzzzzzzzschleckbzzzzzzzzzztourkingbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

above_the_cows

Macaloon wrote:

phreak wrote:

Bit harsh there surely? I mean Sky riders were 2nd in the Giro, won the Tour and had a poor Vuelta. I suspect most teams would have traded that.

Compare that to 2012, where they achieved 7th in the Giro, 1st in the Tour, and 4th in the Vuelta. You might argue that this is more consistent, but both years are decent imo.

Perhaps a soupçon of hysteria. I was responding to the 'strength of squad' sentiments. Froome may well win again with little team support, but I doubt Alberto will be as generous as Alessandro was last year.

Above The Cows wrote:

But surely this just shows the limits of sports-science while also its possibilities. The team was cooked at last year's Tour but you cannot say the same will happen this year as it hasn't happened yet. You could argue that the team have learnt from last year and that is why they have been 'invisible', whatever that really means, using sports science to ensure that riders arrive at the Tour as strong as possible. I'm not sure what you're really expecting, that they dominate every race? No one dominates every race.

I would also ask what other team has a plan C capable of stepping in and winning a GT?

1. Never mind the Tour, what happened to the Giro squad? And why will it be different at the Tour?
2. It's sport. I expect you to be competitive. Where have I suggested winning everything?
3. Teams with riders in the Top 20 of the Giro: OPQS (2), BMC, Tinkoff, Movi (2), AG2R (2), Belkin, Europcar, Trek, Garmin, Cannondale, BMC, Androni, FDJ, Neri Sottoli, Colombia.

I think this performance is taking the wee-wee. DB is famed for his stats-porn. What's gone wrong?

I'm really not sure what you're arguing anymore. I think you're just being contrary for the sake of it. You're asking people to argue for something that hasn't happened (the 2014 Tour) using incomplete evidence (the Top 20 of an incomplete Giro) based on something as whimsical as bike racing and your own ideas about what a team is (i.e. Sky being all about stats) that does not necessarily translate into what a team does.

Are you just saying that Sky have underperformed at this Giro based on other's expectations? Well yes they have, but given the circumstances that isn't surprising. We can also say that Quintana has underperformed this Giro given the expectations of others but again that is hardly surprising given the circumstances.

Macaloon

Turfle wrote:

Top 20 GC? Really?

As you know, because you pointed it out, Siutsou was top 20 before his crash. And he lost 3 minutes 30 due to a previous crash. Give that time back and he's top 10! Success!

Good point. They have suffered more than their share of poor luck, despite being spared the pain of Uran spanking Porte. Before I zip it on the topic (promise):

was this really the team to support a Porte GC challenge?
who was hired/promoted in favour of an Uran-sized rise? Interesting call.
was Brailsford just lucky that Froome happened?

Macaloon

Above The Cows wrote:

I'm really not sure what you're arguing anymore. I think you're just being contrary for the sake of it.

That's a pity.

RichN95.

Macaloon wrote:

Good point. They have suffered more than their share of poor luck, despite being spared the pain of Uran spanking Porte. Before I zip it on the topic (promise):

was this really the team to support a Porte GC challenge?
who was hired/promoted in favour of an Uran-sized rise? Interesting call.
was Brailsford just lucky that Froome happened?

In order:

Yes, it would have been OK. While their riders haven't really been consistently up there (aside from perhaps Sivtsov), there's always been one or two there. Few riders have been supported in any kind of numbers. Also Kennaugh was supposed to be there.

It's more likely that they wanted to trim their inflated wage bill a bit after giving pay rises to various riders - particularly Froome.

Not really. They always knew he had raw talent but were perhaps getting more than a bit frustrated at his inability to translate it into results. I think they worked pretty hard for their 'luck'

Macaloon

RichN95 wrote:

In order:

Yes, it would have been OK. While their riders haven't really been consistently up there (aside from perhaps Sivtsov), there's always been one or two there. Few riders have been supported in any kind of numbers. Also Kennaugh was supposed to be there.

It's more likely that they wanted to trim their inflated wage bill a bit after giving pay rises to various riders - particularly Froome.

Not really. They always knew he had raw talent but were perhaps getting more than a bit frustrated at his inability to translate it into results. I think they worked pretty hard for their 'luck'

i) Rosy outlook. Nice. I doubt it will be shared by the sponsor. Granted, they may not care in the real world, but I doubt Brailsford set out to humiliate them in quite such a spectacular way. If they're not smashing Tinkoff at the Tour, there's simply no excuse for keeping that much talent off-the-road.

ii) They keep trimming the good stuff: Rogers, Uran, Yates'... Maybe they truly are at the mercy of an unyielding market. Or maybe their ability to judge riders sucks?

iii) I'm suggesting that the outsize contribution Froome's performance has on Brailford's reputation is beginning to look inconsistent with DB's guru status.

Richmond Racer

Fear not, Maca

Sky will not win the Tour again this year. However they will triumphantly repeat their win at the ToB.

Wiggins will refuse to re-sign with Sky, having been left out of the Tour squad. I'll provide a supplementary post later re his future plans.

G will sign with another team - probably OGE, who'll soon have more GB riders than the only GB ProTour team

TeamSkyChef, furious at the ongoing refusal to let him have his own mobile kitchen, will open his own restaurant in Nice, backed by an ex-pro and called Kirchen's Kitchen

British fans will turn on DaveB and storm the Death Star to tar and feather him unless he grows a pair. Sky will terminate his contract and replace him with Michael Creed.

And all will be well.

frenchfighter

Anyone seen an official presser yet?

dsoutar

Richmond Racer wrote:

British fans will turn on DaveB and storm the Death Star to tar and feather him unless he grows a pair. Sky will terminate his contract and replace him with Michelle Cound.

And all will be well.

FTFY :-)

Macaloon

Fans: farcical Underwear BAD, Filling Fuller's Void, GOOD.

mroli

Macaloon wrote:

was Brailsford just lucky that Froome happened?

Yeah, possibly - but without Froome maybe Brailsford would have got someone else to step up/recruited elsewhere.

Can I just remind everyone of Sky's mission statement when they started (from Wikipedia, not the world's most reliable source):

Team Sky's aim was "To win the Tour de France within five years" after cutting back their initial expectations from 2010's aim to "create the first British winner of the Tour de France within five years".

And putting aside the question mark of whether or not Froome is British( ), you cannot really criticise them for failing to deliver on their objectives... There are an awful lot of teams that have that as a target and an awful lot that do not accomplish it.

If we're asking "should Sky be performing at other races" - then that is another question, but like it or lump it, they have now got to the stage where they have won back to back TdFs and failure to win would be viewed as a failure generally....

frenchfighter

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/henao-c ... -two-weeks

RideOnTime

Named as reserve.

mroli

Macaloon wrote:

ii) They keep trimming the good stuff: Rogers, Uran, Yates'... Maybe they truly are at the mercy of an unyielding market. Or maybe their ability to judge riders sucks?

In relation to Rogers and Uran - they went to Saxo/OPQS. Not exactly 2 teams short of cash. I don't think that anyone would have judged them as being bad riders.
Yates' were never at Sky so can't have been trimmed. I think Sky only moved for Simon and they wanted to be together and Orica offered them the development opportunities.
Sky are quite chocka with young "talent" too - Dombrowski, Boswell, Edmondson, Kennaugh, Earle etc...