XTR 2015
Comments
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Shimano have had their own small cog interface for years anyway. Should they choose to use/adapt it, which obviously they aren't.0
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supersonic wrote:Shimano have had their own small cog interface for years anyway. Should they choose to use/adapt it, which obviously they aren't.
That would require a new free hub though and was one of the main things people complained about with XX1, needing a proprietary free hub. So Shimano have given the consumer a wider range cassette that doesn't require that. Once it filters down to xt/slx level it will be a relatively cheap change, you'd only need a new mech and shifter if it coincided with replacing worn chain and cassette for example. The majority of people complaining about the price difference between this and the cassette adapters that are now available are probably never going to buy xtr anyway so are not the target market for that product. Simply put I just think people are complaining for the sake of it.0 -
Basically folk are saying "it's not XX1". But it was never going, or indeed trying, to be.0
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supersonic wrote:Shimano have had their own small cog interface for years anyway. Should they choose to use/adapt it, which obviously they aren't.
What is that?0 -
njee20 wrote:Basically folk are saying "it's not XX1". But it was never going, or indeed trying, to be.
Exactly. Tbf I think XX1 is more a masterpiece in marketing that technical brilliance. I've ridden a 34t chainring and 11-36t cassette for the last 3 years and its rare I feel the need for more, and I'm of average-above average fitness at best. In the same time the only times I've really spun out the 34-11 is on extended fire roads or on the road itself, never spun it out on a proper trail and back home in the midlands we have some pretty fast sections of singletrack, regularly topping 25+mph. People seem to be of the opinion that XX1 offers more over anything else, but whether folks actually use all of it is open to debate. The chaps running 28t (I've even seen 26t being used) chainrings on their setups are unlikely to be fit enough to use the extra top-end of the 10t anyway and in percentage changes the 2 teeth difference between the 40t and 42t, while noticeable is probably not going to be the difference between cleaning a climb and not.0 -
Chunkers1980 wrote:supersonic wrote:Shimano have had their own small cog interface for years anyway. Should they choose to use/adapt it, which obviously they aren't.
What is that?
Capreo
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Oh yeah. Thanks0
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I think you should definitely try XTR 11 before writing it off as not as good as XX1 - its a hugely versatile set up and the range even the 1x11 offers is pretty handy - more than enough for anyone that is buying XTR and can justify it in their riding ability. Alas the side pull mech needs new cable routing, but its a huge step forward in terms of 2x or 3x shifting - its almost a smooth as the rear, and the rear is oooh so smooth with the new mech. Its all beautifully made of course, and works wonderfully, although I must admit the bronze finish doesn't do it for me.A Flock of Birds
+ some other bikes.0 -
... Oh and one other thing... the Siltec chains kind of slipped under the radar a bit. They are pretty freaking amazingly slippy. Could be the end of oiling your chain, which would be nice. They will be doing Siltec all the way down to Deore IIRC.A Flock of Birds
+ some other bikes.0 -
People are usually too quick to jump to conclusions, they look at the headline gear range and instantly dismiss it, same as they have done with wheelsize, geometry, anything new basically.
I personally think looks wise this is pretty nice and no doubt it will perform and last incredibly well.0 -
One thing that puzzles me about this is the triple has actually lost top end 40/11 is it. Low range has got lower with 22/40 - which seems really really low.0
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Chunkers1980 wrote:One thing that puzzles me about this is the triple has actually lost top end 40/11 is it. Low range has got lower with 22/40 - which seems really really low.
I think it's for more suitable gearing for 29ers and 650b bikes, the bigger wheels have the effect of gearing the bike up so for a given gear ratio on a 29er you'd need a smaller chainring. I believe thats the basic principle anyway!
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Yep, plus with more and more people going for single/doubles, the demand for a 44/11 top gear is minimal. A 40/11 is a big gear, even on the road.0
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I'm using my 44/11 much less. Used it a fair bit in the nineties lol, is nice to know it's there though.0
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That were small back then, I had 26/36/48 chainrings.0
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supersonic wrote:I'm using my 44/11 much less. Used it a fair bit in the nineties lol, is nice to know it's there though.
Since I started riding 10 years ago I've gone from a triple to a double and now to a single. I rarely used the 44/11 on the triple and it was similar with the 38/11 on the double, only ever used it on the road really. I've yet to spin out my current 34/11 on anything other than road/fire roads. People seem to think that a bigger gear range is better but you have to take consideration just how much of that you're going to use. I don't think many would miss the 10t of XX1 if they did a blind test with the new XTR.0 -
Nope probably not, i think the rage sounds fine.
From a pure engineering POV a slightly narrower range is easier on the mech i believe. its just the dishing that freaks me out a bit having seen mechs bent at all sorts of angles putting any closer to the wheel gives me worry. It's probably a groundless worry but still!
Still i think having several 11 speed sets ups going is only good for prices!0 -
Thewaylander wrote:Still i think having several 11 speed sets ups going is only good for prices!
Absolutely and to me it seems clear that Shimano are already looking to the future by keeping the current freehub standard, as it will allow them to produce cassettes at prices very similar if not identical to current standards. People have complained that XTR costs too much compared to "XYZ cassette adapter", but thats feck all to do with it going 11 speed, it's because it's XTR and it's always going to be the most expensive Shimano groupset. Give it 6-12 months and we'll be seeing Xt and Slx given the 11 speed treatment and then I doubt we'll see many complaining about the price. I actually think the majority of the cassette adapters available are ludicrously priced anyway, how Hope get away with charging £60 for a single cog is beyond me...0 -
lawman wrote:Absolutely and to me it seems clear that Shimano are already looking to the future by keeping the current freehub standard, as it will allow them to produce cassettes at prices very similar if not identical to current standards. People have complained that XTR costs too much compared to "XYZ cassette adapter", but thats feck all to do with it going 11 speed, it's because it's XTR and it's always going to be the most expensive Shimano groupset. Give it 6-12 months and we'll be seeing Xt and Slx given the 11 speed treatment and then I doubt we'll see many complaining about the price. I actually think the majority of the cassette adapters available are ludicrously priced anyway, how Hope get away with charging £60 for a single cog is beyond me...
This ^^^^^
I've no real interest in going 11 speed. I run a 34 front ring with 11-36 out back. It gives me plenty enough range.
I've not spun out the top end except on the road, and at the bottom - well if I can't get up a hill on 34-36 then I'd rather bloody walk!
But in 12 months (or whatever) when it filters down to XT / SLX I could 'upgrade' to 11 spd for a relatively modest outlay especially if I do it when I need to change cassette/chain anyway.
It makes complete sense for Shimano to go this way0 -
BigAl wrote:lawman wrote:Absolutely and to me it seems clear that Shimano are already looking to the future by keeping the current freehub standard, as it will allow them to produce cassettes at prices very similar if not identical to current standards. People have complained that XTR costs too much compared to "XYZ cassette adapter", but thats feck all to do with it going 11 speed, it's because it's XTR and it's always going to be the most expensive Shimano groupset. Give it 6-12 months and we'll be seeing Xt and Slx given the 11 speed treatment and then I doubt we'll see many complaining about the price. I actually think the majority of the cassette adapters available are ludicrously priced anyway, how Hope get away with charging £60 for a single cog is beyond me...
This ^^^^^
I've no real interest in going 11 speed. I run a 34 front ring with 11-36 out back. It gives me plenty enough range.
I've not spun out the top end except on the road, and at the bottom - well if I can't get up a hill on 34-36 then I'd rather bloody walk!
But in 12 months (or whatever) when it filters down to XT / SLX I could 'upgrade' to 11 spd for a relatively modest outlay especially if I do it when I need to change cassette/chain anyway.
It makes complete sense for Shimano to go this way
Nailed it. An extra gear on my 11-36 cassette as a bailout when I hanging would be nice, it's not necessary but sometimes it's nice just to be able to spin a bit more on those off days.
I've not tried one of the cassette adapters but when converting you're at least going to need a new chain, possibly a new cassette as well on top of the adapter cog, so at current XT/SLX prices you're looking around £120 to convert as a ball park figure. If Shimano can produce the 11-speed equivalent at the same price a new rear mech and shifter is gonna cost £80 tops. In theory in keeping you're existing kit you're gonna save yourself 20 quid over going 11 speed. I'd sure as hell spend the extra!0 -
CRC have most of the new groupset online, prices as well:
Double chainsets - £369.99
Triple chainsets - £389.99
Single chainsets - £249.99
Single replacement chainrings - £99.99 :shock:
Trail brakes (W/O rotors or adapters) £174.99
Race brakes £169.99
Cassette - £199.99
Shifters (Pair) - £139.99
Rear Shifter - £79.99
Rear dérailleur - £149.99
Front derailleur - £74.99
Pedals (Trail & Race) - £99.99
Looks like prices are bang in line with 10 speed then and to sweeten the deal CRC are offering 20% off! No idea if they'll let you order it now at that price, but you'll be waiting until August before it hits shops. Anyone want to buy my BNIB 10 speed XTR groupset? 0 -
lawman wrote:CRC have most of the new groupset online, prices as well:
Double chainsets - £369.99
Triple chainsets - £389.99
Single chainsets - £249.99
Single replacement chainrings - £99.99 :shock:
Trail brakes (W/O rotors or adapters) £174.99
Race brakes £169.99
Cassette - £199.99
Shifters (Pair) - £139.99
Rear Shifter - £79.99
Rear dérailleur - £149.99
Front derailleur - £74.99
Pedals (Trail & Race) - £99.99
Looks like prices are bang in line with 10 speed then and to sweeten the deal CRC are offering 20% off! No idea if they'll let you order it now at that price, but you'll be waiting until August before it hits shops. Anyone want to buy my BNIB 10 speed XTR groupset?
Buying mech, cassette, shifter and chain it works out about £150 cheaper that xx1. i think thats what going to swing it for most people.2014 Giant Trance 27.5 1
2013 Cannondale Jekyll 3
2007 Carrera Kraken0 -
jfry94 wrote:lawman wrote:CRC have most of the new groupset online, prices as well:
Double chainsets - £369.99
Triple chainsets - £389.99
Single chainsets - £249.99
Single replacement chainrings - £99.99 :shock:
Trail brakes (W/O rotors or adapters) £174.99
Race brakes £169.99
Cassette - £199.99
Shifters (Pair) - £139.99
Rear Shifter - £79.99
Rear dérailleur - £149.99
Front derailleur - £74.99
Pedals (Trail & Race) - £99.99
Looks like prices are bang in line with 10 speed then and to sweeten the deal CRC are offering 20% off! No idea if they'll let you order it now at that price, but you'll be waiting until August before it hits shops. Anyone want to buy my BNIB 10 speed XTR groupset?
Buying mech, cassette, shifter and chain it works out about £150 cheaper that xx1. i think thats what going to swing it for most people.
While certainly not cheap, it is nice to see they haven't charged more for it just because it's new. I think the single chainset is great value, neary half the price of Raceface's Next SL but the rings are astronomical! :shock: Hopefully someone will do aftermarket ones a lot cheaper0 -
lawman wrote:jfry94 wrote:lawman wrote:CRC have most of the new groupset online, prices as well:
Double chainsets - £369.99
Triple chainsets - £389.99
Single chainsets - £249.99
Single replacement chainrings - £99.99 :shock:
Trail brakes (W/O rotors or adapters) £174.99
Race brakes £169.99
Cassette - £199.99
Shifters (Pair) - £139.99
Rear Shifter - £79.99
Rear dérailleur - £149.99
Front derailleur - £74.99
Pedals (Trail & Race) - £99.99
Looks like prices are bang in line with 10 speed then and to sweeten the deal CRC are offering 20% off! No idea if they'll let you order it now at that price, but you'll be waiting until August before it hits shops. Anyone want to buy my BNIB 10 speed XTR groupset?
Buying mech, cassette, shifter and chain it works out about £150 cheaper that xx1. i think thats what going to swing it for most people.
While certainly not cheap, it is nice to see they haven't charged more for it just because it's new. I think the single chainset is great value, neary half the price of Raceface's Next SL but the rings are astronomical! :shock: Hopefully someone will do aftermarket ones a lot cheaper
At least compare apples with apples not oranges. Its priced similar to the XX1 chainset which is also mass produced and not handmade in relatively small quantity like the Race Face ones.0 -
Hmm, wonder if it would work with an XX1 cassette. Then I could use the bits I have until the cassette wears out, and sell the SRAM stuff.0
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Rings aren't that bad - M970 middle rings were more than that.
CRC are getting stock of it before Madison too, says it all!
Lawman - how much for your M987 Race brakes then, or are you waiting until August?0 -
Must not make ring joke!... argh!0
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Rick Draper wrote:At least compare apples with apples not oranges. Its priced similar to the XX1 chainset which is also mass produced and not handmade in relatively small quantity like the Race Face ones.
They're still high-end cranks though from mainstream brands, sure they might be hand-made but they're still pretty mass-produced, seeing an awful lot about on custom builds and complete bikes.0 -
Aye, doesn't seem way out of line to me. The RFs are cheap compared to some options - notably THM M3s, which are actually slightly lighter, so RFs claim of: "the lightest production carbon crankset on the planet" isn't true.0
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njee20 wrote:Rings aren't that bad - M970 middle rings were more than that.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... -prod38181
Er no.0
