XTR 2015

Dick Scruttock

Interesting, 11-40 tooth rear cassette and 3x,2x and 1x front options. Also Di2 or regular mechs.

http://www.26in.fr/news/28106-shimano-2 ... mages.html

declan1

That chainset looks horrible. I love the current XTR!

lawman

They're getting there, I'm a fan of how it looks and it will perform flawlessly no doubt, but they really could have taken the cassette further. 11 speed will likely require a new freehub anyway so why they haven't gone done a similar route to the capreo stepped freehub is a strange one. Now what would change that is if it fits on existing freehubs, then things get interesting. I'm also a little concerned about the chainring compatibility with the 1x chainset, it doesn't like they have especially long or narrow/wide teeth, which means you're gonna need a chainguide and/or a different chainset. Looks like a unique BCD so you wouldn't be able to use any after market narrow/wide chainrings, but it's hard to tell from the photos.

1x Di2 sounds fecking awesome though, had a go on my Dad's road bike with Dura-ace Di2 and it's phenomenal. Yes they could have gone further with the gear range, but I'm still bloody tempted by it, can't wait to see some official news!

EDIT: Just re-read the specs on the crankset and it looks like both race and trail cranks are compatible with all chainrings, so maybe they've gone modular like raceface/Sram etc... If so expect a number of aftermarket direct mount narrow/wide rings!

Chunkers1980

This is the first I've heard of it all. But xx11 needs a different freehub to fit the smallest sprocket.

lawman

Chunkers1980 wrote:

This is the first I've heard of it all. But xx11 needs a different freehub to fit the smallest sprocket.

Indeed, which is why I can't fathom why Shimano have gone 11 speed, which will likely require a new freehub anyway and not gone for a 9 or 10t smallest cog, it seems pretty conservative imo. I've got three guesses; A) They've been conservative and didn't want to use a smaller cog, despite a new freehub body, They've somehow managed to cram those 11 gears onto a traditional freehub, so they'll fit on existing 9-10 speed wheels/hubs or as a wild stab in the dark C) They've kept the options open for 1x, 2x and 3x with XTR and could launch an "enduro" specific groupset/s like Saint/zee. I think guess A is more likely given Shimano's conservative reputation, but I hope it's B or C, otherwise they've dropped a clanger and despite a new freehub design being needed they haven't taken full advantage of it. Will be interested to see what the brakes and pedals will be like, I presume they'll split XTR in race/trail camps like the current generation.

lawman

Few more spy pics. The one that's really interesting for me is, shocking, the one of the hubs. The specs underneath specify a 11/10 speed compatible freehub body... Now does that mean they've squeezed 11 cogs into the space of the current 10 speed cassette so we can keep our current freehubs?!

Kowalski675

declan1 wrote:

That chainset looks horrible.

Should've gone to Specsavers. It looks great.

adamfo

Road hubs 2013 spec. on you use a spacer to fit 10 speed and remove it for 11 speed cassettes.

jfry94

Eew it looks very similar to deore imo

lawman

adamfo wrote:

On road hubs 2013 on you use a spacer to fit 10 speed and remove it for 11 speed cassettes.

Figured that might be the case, which is a shame!

The cranks are certainly opinion dividing, but the rest looks great, just wish they'd pushed 1x a little further, but given I cope with 34/11-36 atm having an extra bail out gear of any size is welcome! Guess we can only speculate at the full specs before the official launch, Sea Otter needs to hurry the hell up!

declan1

Kowalski675 wrote:

declan1 wrote:

That chainset looks horrible.

Should've gone to Specsavers. It looks great.

Oh look, what a surprise.

P.S. I have been to Specsavers

warpcow

declan1 wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

declan1 wrote:

That chainset looks horrible.

Should've gone to Specsavers. It looks great.

Oh look, what a surprise.

P.S. I have been to Specsavers

+1 (wearing my Specsavers specs right as I type). Looks like a Hollowtech Tourney to me:

lawman

warpcow wrote:

declan1 wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

declan1 wrote:

That chainset looks horrible.

Should've gone to Specsavers. It looks great.

Oh look, what a surprise.

P.S. I have been to Specsavers

+1 (wearing my Specsavers specs right as I type). Looks like a Hollowtech Tourney to me:

They're not that bad! Not exactly pretty but hardly gopping either.

Cqc

^they don't exactly look bling..

Kowalski675

declan1 wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

declan1 wrote:

That chainset looks horrible.

Should've gone to Specsavers. It looks great.

Oh look, what a surprise.

P.S. I have been to Specsavers

That explains it - Specsavers were always terrible when I worked in optics, you probably need a retest.

declan1

Kowalski675 wrote:

declan1 wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

declan1 wrote:

That chainset looks horrible.

Should've gone to Specsavers. It looks great.

Oh look, what a surprise.

P.S. I have been to Specsavers

That explains it - Specsavers were always terrible when I worked in optics, you probably need a retest.

I did recently and they just confirmed that my eyesight is completely rubbish.

fat_homer

+1 declan1 & warpcow, pretty fugly in my opinion. A set of the current XTR cranks are top of my lust list at the minute.

However, the bigger cassette is a step in the right direction, but I'd still like to see them bring out a decent range 10s cassette, ie. 11-40.

ride_whenever

I'm surprised they're offering di2, last I heard they couldn't get it to work with the clutch but looks like that was wrong

ratherbeintobago

ride_whenever wrote:

I'm surprised they're offering di2, last I heard they couldn't get it to work with the clutch but looks like that was wrong

On the subject of Di2, I thought the brains of the system were in the front mech? How will it work for 1x11, then?

ride_whenever

Nah it's the mechs. You can easily make 1*10 or 11 with the current or even the original di2

njee20

Only with Dura Ace. Ultegra does have the 'brains' in the front mech, so you have to use one. Stands to reason that XTR is like DA though.

I think it looks good, it'll be the same cassette standard as the road groups I imagine, but it seems a shame they've not gone a little more radical.

lawman

njee20 wrote:

Only with Dura Ace. Ultegra does have the 'brains' in the front mech, so you have to use one. Stands to reason that XTR is like DA though.

I think it looks good, it'll be the same cassette standard as the road groups I imagine, but it seems a shame they've not gone a little more radical.

Still reckon they'll pull a dedicated 1x groupset out of the bag at Sea Otter. A 40t cassette cog is about big as you can go on a double or triple, as Shimano are such strong believers in front mechs it makes sense that they're top of the range groupset reflects this, hence the 11-40t. An "enduro" groupset, similar to Saint and Zee for DH could be dedicated 1x and have a wider range cassette and rear mech, who knows! Guess we'll have to wait and find out!

Kowalski675

fat_homer wrote:

+1 declan1 & warpcow, pretty fugly in my opinion.

I like it. Kind of organic and almost Gigeresque. Electronic shifting just seems crazy to me though.

declan1

Kowalski675 wrote:

fat_homer wrote:

+1 declan1 & warpcow, pretty fugly in my opinion.

I like it. Kind of organic and almost Gigeresque. Electronic shifting just seems crazy to me though.

It does seem a bit wrong. On a road bike it's understandable and is performing in a clean, stable environment but on a MTB it's going to be subjected to lots of water, mud and throwing around. That digital gear display thing looks like the perfect thing to smash against a rock.

njee20

Still reckon they'll pull a dedicated 1x groupset out of the bag at Sea Otter

Not with anything smaller than an 11 they won't. As has been said there are already Shimano 11 speed freehub bodies from DT (and thus Bontrager/Roval/PowerTap etc), Mavic, Shimano (obviously!), American Classic, Hope, Tune etc etc, so they're capitalising on what's already there, they're not going to licence XD from SRAM, and why do something new again?

Perhaps they'll do an 11-44 cassette or something, but I doubt it, I reckon this is it. Being slightly cynical about it I reckon they've missed the boat a little bit on the chain retention side of 1x10 and are focusing on monopolising the 2x and 3x markets, which are still huge sectors.

Di2 will be great though, plenty of folk running modified road groupsets for years and having no problems, in a lot of ways it makes more sense on an MTB - lack of cables and consistent shifting in bad conditions and that!

lawman

njee20 wrote:

Still reckon they'll pull a dedicated 1x groupset out of the bag at Sea Otter

Not with anything smaller than an 11 they won't. As has been said there are already Shimano 11 speed freehub bodies from DT (and thus Bontrager/Roval/PowerTap etc), Mavic, Shimano (obviously!), American Classic, Hope, Tune etc etc, so they're capitalising on what's already there, they're not going to licence XD from SRAM, and why do something new again?

Perhaps they'll do an 11-44 cassette or something, but I doubt it, I reckon this is it. Being slightly cynical about it I reckon they've missed the boat a little bit on the chain retention side of 1x10 and are focusing on monopolising the 2x and 3x markets, which are still huge sectors.

Di2 will be great though, plenty of folk running modified road groupsets for years and having no problems, in a lot of ways it makes more sense on an MTB - lack of cables and consistent shifting in bad conditions and that!

Yeah there's no way they'll do smaller than 11t, the freehubs if they're the same as the road are widely available as you say, but a 42 or 44t wider range is a possibility. Tbh I'm not overly bothered if they don't 11-40 is plenty for me, I've been on a 34t chainring and 11-36 cassette for the last few years and it's rare I have to walk up anything, somethings are a bit of a grind but I can clear most things, so the 40t will be nice to just have an option to spin up a climb. I think Di2 in principle makes a lot of sense, but the main downfall is the cost, a lot of cash on something that can be trashed as easily as a rear mech, I'll stick with mechanical for now I think!

njee20

The servos will detach themselves from the mech in a crash, so not really more at risk than a normal mech. Take your point though.

Agree on 11-40, will be fine for most. Doesn't get round the fact it's a chunk narrower than SRAM though, and they don't presently seem to have done anything special to aid chain retention, hence I reckon they're targeting the OEM 2x and 3x markets more heavily. Makes sense really, SRAM are going away from there so Shimano are right to jump in.

It'll be heavier and spendier than XX1 I reckon too. But... it will work absolutely flawlessly forever!

BloggingFit

Ratios don't look too bad on the 11-40.

I would expect perhaps a tighter option 11-34 with then a jump up to say 42 which would effectively be your granny on a 1x11 set up. Would help eliminate being caught between gears on a 1x10 set up.

njee20

That would be a monster gap - much like "Mega Range", IMO that sort of step is horrible. You'd just about get away with a 36-42 jump, or possibly a 34-40, but 34-42 would be too much I reckon.

I've never had a problem with the jumps in an 11-36 myself, find close ratio blocks a pain on the MTB.

Thewaylander

Not convinced on anything digital on a bike, the standard gear indicators never lasted more than a ride and working for me.

Interested to see what they do range wise overall though. i think wider ratio 10speed is a great thing! though will prob have 11 speed sram on the next bike for the giggles.

njee20

How do you break the gear indicators?