XTR 2015

jnr_seahorse

For starters:

Roval Control SL? (Persumably a DT Swiss freehub.)
3.30 No Tubes?

EdW

njee20 wrote:

And yet the difference between 9 and 10 speed XT cassettes...?

11-32 9 speed: 256g
11-32 10 speed: 286g

So that's less than 1/9 extra. Bear in mind that because the sprockets are on carriers it's not necessarily the case that the bigger sprockets are hugely heavier than the middle ones - as much steel in a 19t sprocket as a bigger one on a carrier.

The equivalent comparison for 9 to 10 speed would be
11-32 9 speed: 256g
11-36 10 speed: 338g
Since here you are effectively adding a 36t sprocket to the 9 speed cassettte. That's an approx 80g, 30% increase.

lawman

I would imagine you'll be fine. DT already make an 11 speed freehub as do Stan's. A freehub is a relatively easy swap, most people now have XD driver available for their wheels/hubs, barring Chris King IIRC. Most people will have freehubs ready by summer if they don't already anyway.

njee20

Chris King R45 disc already available with 11 speed freehub body, and they're stupidly slow to pick up on these things! Don't think it's available with anything but QR at the mo, as it's designed for road/cross really, but can probably be retrofitted to their ISO hubs.

But yes, if it's from a major aftermarket supplier you'll be fine.

jnr_seahorse

Thanks good news!
Practical question: The freehub must be wider to fit the extra cog, how does it fit in the same space? I'm guessing the 11t cog isn't moving outwards because there isn't any room.

lawman

EdW wrote:

njee20 wrote:

And yet the difference between 9 and 10 speed XT cassettes...?

11-32 9 speed: 256g
11-32 10 speed: 286g

So that's less than 1/9 extra. Bear in mind that because the sprockets are on carriers it's not necessarily the case that the bigger sprockets are hugely heavier than the middle ones - as much steel in a 19t sprocket as a bigger one on a carrier.

The equivalent comparison for 9 to 10 speed would be
11-32 9 speed: 256g
11-36 10 speed: 338g
Since here you are effectively adding a 36t sprocket to the 9 speed cassettte. That's an approx 80g, 30% increase.

No doubt it'll be heavier, but it's hardly a deal breaker. An XT 10 speed 11-36t cassette with a 42t adapter is about 400g or so, give or take, I can't see an 11 speed XT 11-40 (presuming they make one) being much heavier than that, so it's not really adding excess weight over a converted 10 speed, it might even come out lighter.

If you want to adopt a "new" emerging product there's pretty much two ways you go about it, in terms of drivetrain at least. You can try and make things work with what you have and some kind of bodge, which no matter how well made it is, like the Wolf Tooth/OneUP adapters, it's always going to be that, a bodge. It will more likely be compromised in some way, whether it is performance of the products as a whole or in terms of life-span; something trying to work outside what it is designed to do isn't going to be as good as product designed and engineered specifically for that particular job. Some people can live with that, some can't. The other option is to go all in with the new kit, yeah it's probably gonna cost you a bit, but then all new technology or products do, but at least you're safe in the knowledge you're not asking it to do anything it's not meant to and will likely perform better for longer than any bodge job of your current kit.

I think half the problem is people are always expecting something for nothing, probably a culture of "ohhh I've got XXX years of spare kit in the garage that I won't be able to use anymore". New kit is expensive, but if you want the best performance that's the price you have to pay, initial outlay might be more, but down the line it'll likely even out or come down in price.

lawman

cyd190468 wrote:

What I want to know is when does the law of diminishing returns kick in and they stop adding another cog every couple of years. 12speed? 13speed?

What does it matter? Stuff wears out if you use it fairly heavily, something like the drivetrain is relatively disposable or easily changed. Sure there's still some people rocking 8 speeds cassettes and first gen XTR kit, but that number of people is going to be minuscule compared the number running newer kit. The industry has to develop new product to survive. Without this kind of development, we likely wouldn't have a bike industry and nobody wants that.

supersonic

I run a triple with 8 speed cassette on my old Zaskar LE. Altus shifters. It is smother than any ten speed SLX set up I have used, and lasts a lot longer too.

I've also seen plans for 14 speed Shimano cassettes!

Good thing is there is so much choice now we can't say any set up is better than another.

lawman

supersonic wrote:

I run a triple with 8 speed cassette on my old Zaskar LE. Altus shifters. It is smother than any ten speed SLX set up I have used, and lasts a lot longer too.

I've also seen plans for 14 speed Shimano cassettes!

Good thing is there is so much choice now we can't say any set up is better than another.

It's all preference as usual, frankly thought of returning to a triple to scares me, let alone going 8 speed! Didn't Shimano apply for that patent donkey years ago?!

njee20

Shimano have held a patent on 14 speed cassettes for at least 15 years.

Roval Control SL? (Persumably a DT Swiss freehub.)

Correct, that won't be a problem.

3.30 No Tubes?

Not at the moment AFAIK, but they won't take long to sort one.

BloggingFit

njee20 wrote:

That would be a monster gap - much like "Mega Range", IMO that sort of step is horrible. You'd just about get away with a 36-42 jump, or possibly a 34-40, but 34-42 would be too much I reckon.

I've never had a problem with the jumps in an 11-36 myself, find close ratio blocks a pain on the MTB.

It would but no worse then the jump from middle to granny. I know of few people that use their granny and go through the gears. I'd treat simply as a reserve gear almost for when things get really steep or tricky. Similar really to thr 42 tooth add-ons available at the moment for 10 speed.

ddraver

njee20 wrote:

That would be a monster gap - much like "Mega Range", IMO that sort of step is horrible. You'd just about get away with a 36-42 jump, or possibly a 34-40, but 34-42 would be too much I reckon.

I've never had a problem with the jumps in an 11-36 myself, find close ratio blocks a pain on the MTB.

Oooh, I dunno - In Holland where my excess fat was not a problem on hills having a close range (11-23) cassette on the roadie really felt like free speed as you could keep your cadence just so...

njee20

Personally just found I was changing gear all the time. Admit there's nothing more irritating than finding you need a gear halfway between two others though! Just find on the MTB it doesn't tend to happen as the terrain changes so much.

BloggingFit

This is true.

Personally I do find the jump up to 36 on XT 10 Speed annoying although the gear itself I find useful.

Slightly off topic but does anyone ruinning 1x10 swap out for a bigger front ring in the Summer months when it's all a bit quicker? Considering swapping the 34t for 38t if we get a Summer like last year.

Chunkers1980

They are your legs. Fill your boots with whatever works for you.

The Rookie

I have 1x9 on both my commuter and MTB, on the MTB I never notice the gap between ratios (11-34) on my commuter (on road) I do (11-28)! As Njee says, on an MTB you always have a changing situation so rarely sit and spin at one pace for more than a few seconds, not true on road.

adamfo

Has anyone found some colour pics of the cranks ?

lawman

adamfo wrote:

Has anyone found some colour pics of the cranks ?

They are colour pics, cranks will be polished alloy and dark grey like the current gen. Not the best picture I've seen, but they're certainly damn shiny!

benpinnick

lawman wrote:

adamfo wrote:

Has anyone found some colour pics of the cranks ?

They are computed pics, cranks will be polished alloy and dark grey like the current gen. Not the best picture I've seen, but they're certainly damn shiny!

They'll look exactly like they do in the pics. They are in colour, albeit ruined by the camera phone photo.

BloggingFit

Chunkers1980 wrote:

They are your legs. Fill your boots with whatever works for you.

Shit, I thought they were yours and I'd have to drop to 24t...

lawman

The official launch is tomorrow, but a few new photos have been leaked!

















Looks amazing imo 8) Nice to know my xtr groupset is outdated before I've even used it!

Looks like they'll be doing a 650b wheelset and they look like carbon to me. No doubt they'll still use cup and cone hubs though...

More pics and details here - http://mtbs.cz/kategorie/mtbs-foto-uziv ... album/9025

njee20

Back to alu lever blades by the looks of it, or at least they've not put carbon ones on the Trail brakes.

Looks like a slightly bronze finish, don't like that, hopefully just the light.

lawman

Judging by the studio shots of the group I'd say its just the light.

Also looks like they tried to develop the front and rear mechs a little further too. More chain wrap in the lower cogs of the cassette and more tire clearance on the front mech by moving the cable mount to the side.

benpinnick

... and did you count the number of cogs on the cassette?

lawman

benpinnick wrote:

... and did you count the number of cogs on the cassette?

Well it's 11 speed... what's your point?

adamfo

More of a titanium colour than bronze

Dick Scruttock

The more you see of it the more you realise just how caught off guard they were by XX1, I am just finding it all totally underwhelming.

lawman

Rick Draper wrote:

The more you see of it the more you realise just how caught off guard they were by XX1, I am just finding it all totally underwhelming.

I can see where you're coming from, its typical Shimano conservatism, lets be honest they've tried the innovation thing, biopace, dual control etc and it's back fired massively. Having ridden a couple of bikes with XX1/X01 I like the range, but I thought the overall feel of it wasn't great, felt plasticky and unrefined. The current gen Xt and Xtr set ups I've ridden have felt much smoother, crisper and a nicer feel at the lever. What this seems to lack in range and chain retention I think will be overcome by how well it shifts and lasts, reports of XX1 failing prematurely are pretty common. I'll reserve proper judgement til I've seen full details and ridden the new Xtr though.

njee20

The more you see of it the more you realise just how caught off guard they were by XX1, I am just finding it all totally underwhelming.

Do you think?

I just don't think they're targeting the single ring market, which is a pretty small market in itself. Strikes me as sensible to not try and get those on XX1 back to Shimano after a year or two, go after the far more lucrative OEM and 2x/3x markets. Apparently the desire to go single ring is quite a UK one.

benpinnick

lawman wrote:

Rick Draper wrote:

The more you see of it the more you realise just how caught off guard they were by XX1, I am just finding it all totally underwhelming.

I can see where you're coming from, its typical Shimano conservatism, lets be honest they've tried the innovation thing, biopace, dual control etc and it's back fired massively. Having ridden a couple of bikes with XX1/X01 I like the range, but I thought the overall feel of it wasn't great, felt plasticky and unrefined. The current gen Xt and Xtr set ups I've ridden have felt much smoother, crisper and a nicer feel at the lever. What this seems to lack in range and chain retention I think will be overcome by how well it shifts and lasts, reports of XX1 failing prematurely are pretty common. I'll reserve proper judgement til I've seen full details and ridden the new Xtr though.

I've ridden it and its pretty cool, but I must admit I dont like the looks that much - its a kind of wierd brown colour... and of course no one would launch 1x11 without a retaining ring