Tour of Poland 2013 **SPOILERS**

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  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    When the race organisers have run the tombola and come up with the new top 10 on GC, would someone be kind enought to post it here - ta
  • Give me more
    Give me more Posts: 487
    1 IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI Jon 122 EUS 25h 49' 41''
    2 MAJKA Rafał 55 TST 25h 49' 42'' + 00' 01''
    3 HENAO MONTOYA Sergio Luis 31 SKY 25h 49' 46'' + 00' 05''
    4 RIBLON Christophe 176 ALM 25h 49' 48'' + 00' 07''
    5 WEENING Pieter 136 OGE 25h 49' 49'' + 00' 08''
    6 SORENSEN Chris Anker 52 TST 25h 49' 51'' + 00' 10''
    7 POZZOVIVO Domenico 175 ALM 25h 49' 55'' + 00' 14''
    8 CAPECCHI Eros 111 MOV 25h 49' 55'' + 00' 14''
    9 KISERLOVSKI Robert 83 RLT 25h 49' 58'' + 00' 17''
    10 ROHREGGER Thomas 85 RLT 25h 50' 00'' + 00' 19'

    Izaguirre gained himself a 10s bonus for attractivity today and takes the overall lead as a result.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Turfle wrote:
    Izagirre maybe given an attractiveness bonus to take the lead in the GC. What a mess.


    This ridiculous experiment...we already know its a FAIL
  • mechanism
    mechanism Posts: 891
    The trouble is, this system is so bad the UCI might just stick with it.
  • gpreeves
    gpreeves Posts: 454
    Mechanism wrote:
    The trouble is, this system is so bad the UCI might just stick with it.

    Agreed. It's difficult to imagine the person who invented it has ever watched a bike race.The same could be said of Kirby's commentating today.

    In spite of that, it was an enjoyable stage. I'm hoping these two wins are a signal of a return to form for Thor.
  • rickyrider
    rickyrider Posts: 294
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Izagirre maybe given an attractiveness bonus to take the lead in the GC. What a mess.


    This ridiculous experiment...we already know its a FAIL

    Now I haven't really paid any attention to this race because, well, it's so obviously crap. But can someone explain what the hell an attractiveness bonus is? Marks out of ten for the best pout or wot? And sorry if this has been asked ten times previously
  • Give me more
    Give me more Posts: 487
    rickyrider wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Izagirre maybe given an attractiveness bonus to take the lead in the GC. What a mess.


    This ridiculous experiment...we already know its a FAIL

    Now I haven't really paid any attention to this race because, well, it's so obviously crap. But can someone explain what the hell an attractiveness bonus is? Marks out of ten for the best pout or wot? And sorry if this has been asked ten times previously

    It's basically just awarded to the people who did well on sprints and climbs across a stage. Added incentive to get into breaks and make attacks happen etc.

    30s / 20s / 10s bonuses for the top 3 in the category on the stage.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Izagirre maybe given an attractiveness bonus to take the lead in the GC. What a mess.
    This ridiculous experiment...we already know its a FAIL
    Is it? For Izaguirre it wasn’t a fail.
    From what he said after the stage, it sounds like he knew exactly what he was doing on the last two climbs (i.e. aiming to get enough attractivity points to get a time bonus and take yellow).

    Actually it’s surprising none of the other front runners have tried to use the rule to their advantage, any of the top ten could have leapfrogged into yellow - although on the other hand, it always takes a while till riders (and cycling fans) realise how best to use a new rule.

    I like the idea of rewarding breaks and attacking moves with time bonuses. My criticism of this scheme, apart from the name (something like ‘combativity’ would have been better) is that it’s too complicated. On 4 of the 5 stages so far, there have been 6 or 7 sprints or climbs each stage where riders could get attractivity points. I think that is too many for riders to easily keep an overview during each stage. It makes them very reliant on being informed by their DS whether it's worth it to challenge for points during the later part of a stage.

    I would make it simpler – direct time bonuses (10”, 7”, 4”) at just 2 mid-stage climbs and 1 intermediate sprint on each hilly stage (1 climb and 2 sprints on flatter terrain stages).
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    the coverage doesn't help

    I suspect the race ain't too bad if we knew WTF was going on.

    6 man teams is a good idea for these shorter stage races
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Izagirre maybe given an attractiveness bonus to take the lead in the GC. What a mess.


    This ridiculous experiment...we already know its a FAIL
    Progress is achieved by those that try and are not afraid to fail. This may not have worked but new ideas* should always be welcome and experiments tried.


    (*Unless the idea is related to digital projectors - please keep those to yourself)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    Folks do realize that the final stage is a 37km ITT, do they?

    If somebody did something to liven up the stage, then the bonus added a little attraction.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Small teams was exactly the reason why we got exellent racing in the last 10. The favorites and leaders were all left to themselves. Counter after counter. Majka had been in quite a trouble had this been just a tiny bit harder. Desperately chased down everything.
  • argyllflyer
    argyllflyer Posts: 893
    Carlton stated with a degree of authority at the start of today's coverage that 'attractivity' had no bearing on the GC so I wonder how he'll explain that one away if Izaguirre now leads because of it?

    As I've already stated this week, UCI would be better served ensuring a decent TV production company was allocated World Tour events to ensure that the audience at home actually knew what was happening, rather than enforcing contrived and complicated classifications on us. This Polish lot were poor last year and seem worse this time around. The lack of on-screen graphics is disastrous for cycling coverage - a race needs context of who is where and how long is left. Always, or the shot is irrelevant.

    That said, didn't Verbruggen ensure the pitiful Olympics RR coverage went to some cronies? And I'm pretty sure the same cronies did a guff job on Eneco and Worlds last year.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    555-PhotoScanferla_8624.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    argyllflyer wrote:
    Carlton stated with a degree of authority at the start of today's coverage that 'attractivity' had no bearing on the GC so I wonder how he'll explain that one away if Izaguirre now leads because of it?

    As I've already stated this week, UCI would be better served ensuring a decent TV production company was allocated World Tour events to ensure that the audience at home actually knew what was happening, rather than enforcing contrived and complicated classifications on us. This Polish lot were poor last year and seem worse this time around. The lack of on-screen graphics is disastrous for cycling coverage - a race needs context of who is where and how long is left. Always, or the shot is irrelevant.

    That said, didn't Verbruggen ensure the pitiful Olympics RR coverage went to some cronies? And I'm pretty sure the same cronies did a guff job on Eneco and Worlds last year.


    The broadcaster for last year's Olympic coverage debacle was OBS - Olympic Broadcasting Services, a Madrid-based outfit. And dear Hein is the Chairman

    https://www.obs.tv/structure_contact.php
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    oh dear, Team Colombia's manager Claudio Corti's been having a mad moment

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/corti-s ... from-break
  • the article don
    the article don Posts: 578
    The lack of time gaps remains hilariously cr*p. Even if they can't get proper transponder data, surely in the age of GPS and using an, er, helicopter, you could put together some kind of fudge..

    Also, I'm generally quite ambivalent to Kirby but this quote from yesterday is wonderful:

    "Majka riding like he's wearing the yellow jersey which of course he is"
    Giant Trance X 2010
    Specialized Tricross Sport
    My Dad's old racer
    Trek Marlin 29er 2012
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    ThomThom wrote:
    Small teams was exactly the reason why we got exellent racing in the last 10. The favorites and leaders were all left to themselves. Counter after counter. Majka had been in quite a trouble had this been just a tiny bit harder. Desperately chased down everything.

    +1 the small teams work

    the weirdo bonus system needs looking at? moar onscreen realtime graphics or simplification
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    oh dear, Team Colombia's manager Claudio Corti's been having a mad moment

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/corti-s ... from-break


    yeah but it was instant karma for every team in the break colombia chased the break down.


    so he gave as good as he got.... whats he moaning about :lol:
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    the article don wrote:
    The lack of time gaps remains hilariously cr*p. Even if they can't get proper transponder data, surely in the age of GPS and using an, er, helicopter, you could put together some kind of fudge..

    Also, I'm generally quite ambivalent to Kirby but this quote from yesterday is wonderful:

    "Majka riding like he's wearing the yellow jersey which of course he is"


    colemenballs
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Decent post on the new attractivity classification

    http://djconnel.blogspot.com/2013/08/at ... ur-of.html

    Dan Martin ‏@DanMartin
    I love tour of poland but 6man teams, italy start and silly attractivity classification deciding overall? #keepcyclingsimple #wrong
    Contador is the Greatest
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    oh dear, Team Colombia's manager Claudio Corti's been having a mad moment

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/corti-s ... from-break
    Fixed link since that one seems to be broken.
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    oh dear, Team Colombia's manager Claudio Corti's been having a mad moment

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/corti-s ... from-break


    To be fair 5 mins isn't that much... 10 or 20 mins and he would have a point.
  • Give me more
    Give me more Posts: 487
    I've been looking forward to today's stage ever since seeing the profile
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Decent post on the new attractivity classification
    http://djconnel.blogspot.com/2013/08/at ... ur-of.html
    The author has created an extreme mythical scenario to support his argument, giving it actually no weight at all – fail.
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Dan Martin ‏@DanMartin
    I love tour of poland but 6man teams, italy start and silly attractivity classification deciding overall? #keepcyclingsimple #wrong
    If Martin isn't happy with the Italy start for the race, presumably he'll speak out even more against Northern Ireland as start for the Giro?

    Some riders are against smaller 6-rider teams because it means their teams (the stronger teams and the teams with the sprinters) find it harder to control the race, to perform tempo riding, and to bring back breaks. Hushovd said the other day he favoured the traditionally larger teams because “in a mass sprint (with smaller teams), one has to fight oneself for the best position, and could get it wrong”.
    But I think none are arguments which would convince most cycling fans.
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Give me more wrote:
    I've been looking forward to today's stage ever since seeing the profile
    If I read it right, it could be good enough for a world championship. ??
    I'm hoping the camera's might show something of the course, instead of looking in riders earholes.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Moser (2012), Dan Martin (2011), Mollema (2010). Not a bad palmares for this stage
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Sporza ticker says with 108 km to go there is a 32 (!) rider breakaway, with among others Ulissi, Atapuma, Dekker, Kiserlovski, Visconti, Rebellin, Marczynski, De Weert and De Greef. 3 minute advantage. Crazy large group that - how big is the peloton in Poland anyway?
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    FJS wrote:
    Show big is the peloton in Poland anyway?
    130 riders finished yesterday's stage.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    edited August 2013
    Huzarski has jumped solo, a minute or so ahead of the other 31, who have more than 5 minutes now on the rest of the peloton.
    A bit risky that, allowing such a big gap for such a large group on a hilly stage and with the small teams in this race to control. Kiserlovski the only one from the top 10 in there, but not a bad move for him....

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