Tour of Poland 2013 **SPOILERS**

TheBigBean

afx237vi wrote:

Why would Wiggins need to be in super-lean climbing form when his primary objective for the rest of the year is a flat 50km TT?

Why would you pay someone millions to just ride a flat 50km TT?

afx237vi

TheBigBean wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Why would Wiggins need to be in super-lean climbing form when his primary objective for the rest of the year is a flat 50km TT?

Why would you pay someone millions to just ride a flat 50km TT?

Because a world championships title, even in the TT, is more valuable in terms of publicity than the Tour of Poland?

andyp

Pop quiz.

1. Who is the reigning World Time Trial Champion?

2. Who won the Tour of Poland last year?

No cheating.

TheBigBean

afx237vi wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Why would Wiggins need to be in super-lean climbing form when his primary objective for the rest of the year is a flat 50km TT?

Why would you pay someone millions to just ride a flat 50km TT?

Because a world championships title, even in the TT, is more valuable in terms of publicity than the Tour of Poland?

Neither merits millions in my opinion.

You would probably pay someone more to win the world TT (on the assumption they wear it for the trade team the following year) than the Tour of Poland.

TheBigBean

andyp wrote:

Pop quiz.

1. Who is the reigning World Time Trial Champion?

2. Who won the Tour of Poland last year?

No cheating.

1. Tony Martin.
2. I can't even understand who is winning this year, and I'm posting in the spoiler thread.

RonB

Good point well made

Turfle

frenchfighter wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Wiggins was with Henao until the foot of the final climb. That was his job.

People who didn't watch the race (ff) shouldn't comment on who did/didn't earn their money.

And the same yesterday? So he is being paid to come to this race and ride on the flat for Henao? If he is supposedly riding for Henao then he should still be good enough to finish with a few mins.

I suppose he will magically turn up to the Worlds with ridiculously good form though.

And anyway, there are many riders in this race who I was referring to. Just scroll down the list and you will see that there are some very good riders other than Wiggins and Nibali in this race who are soft pedalling.

This is precisely why you shouldn't comment on who earned their money.

Nibali was in the break all day. You don't know that because you just looked at the results and assumed he soft-pedaled.

Wiggins was the only Sky rider with Henao on the final climb. There were 3 cat 1 climbs in the final 60k - he wasn't riding "on the flat" for Henao.

knedlicky

Turfle wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Wiggins was with Henao until the foot of the final climb. That was his job.
People who didn't watch the race (ff) shouldn't comment on who did/didn't earn their money.

And the same yesterday? So he is being paid to come to this race and ride on the flat for Henao? If he is supposedly riding for Henao then he should still be good enough to finish with a few mins.
I suppose he will magically turn up to the Worlds with ridiculously good form though.
And anyway, there are many riders in this race who I was referring to. Just scroll down the list and you will see that there are some very good riders other than Wiggins and Nibali in this race who are soft pedalling.

This is precisely why you shouldn't comment on who earned their money.
Nibali was in the break all day. You don't know that because you just looked at the results and assumed he soft-pedaled.
Wiggins was the only Sky rider with Henao on the final climb. There were 3 cat 1 climbs in the final 60k - he wasn't riding "on the flat" for Henao.

I agree that it would be good if the big names showed themselves more, but teams/riders don’t have any responsibilty or need to do so - unless you’re a wild card team and want another invitation or are currently pretty low down in the World Tour ranking - thus perhaps Marczynski's attempt on the last climb today for Vacansoleil, and Preidler’s efforts all day for Argos, or Weening's performance yesterday for Orica.

I suppose if a sponsor is trying to increase his presence in the Dolomites/Poland it also plays a role in team objectives – I think roadside/stage finish/local media advertising is still very relevant despite international TV coverage – but I’m unsure how many current sponsors see sales potential in Poland.

It's a pity really because I think Poland carries more relevance/weight than those end-of-season Chinese tours, and as much weight as the Catalonia or the Pais Vasco.

Nonetheless I think Nibali and Wiggins (if he’s considering the WC RR) will fight it out on stage 6, Kangert too if he’s allowed, maybe also Izaguirre, LL Sanchez, Kiselovski and Visconti. That stage is their trial run for the WC RR at Florence.

Give me more

or Weening's performance yesterday for Orica.

Weening had another great ride today too! I didn't realise at first but he came in right behind Henao and Majka. Sitting in fourth overall only 7s back.

Turfle

knedlicky wrote:

Turfle wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Wiggins was with Henao until the foot of the final climb. That was his job.
People who didn't watch the race (ff) shouldn't comment on who did/didn't earn their money.

And the same yesterday? So he is being paid to come to this race and ride on the flat for Henao? If he is supposedly riding for Henao then he should still be good enough to finish with a few mins.
I suppose he will magically turn up to the Worlds with ridiculously good form though.
And anyway, there are many riders in this race who I was referring to. Just scroll down the list and you will see that there are some very good riders other than Wiggins and Nibali in this race who are soft pedalling.

This is precisely why you shouldn't comment on who earned their money.
Nibali was in the break all day. You don't know that because you just looked at the results and assumed he soft-pedaled.
Wiggins was the only Sky rider with Henao on the final climb. There were 3 cat 1 climbs in the final 60k - he wasn't riding "on the flat" for Henao.

I agree that it would be good if the big names showed themselves more, but teams/riders don’t have any responsibilty or need to do so - unless you’re a wild card team and want another invitation or are currently pretty low down in the World Tour ranking - thus perhaps Marczynski's attempt on the last climb today for Vacansoleil, and Preidler’s efforts all day for Argos, or Weening's performance yesterday for Orica.

I suppose if a sponsor is trying to increase his presence in the Dolomites/Poland it also plays a role in team objectives – I think roadside/stage finish/local media advertising is still very relevant despite international TV coverage – but I’m unsure how many current sponsors see sales potential in Poland.

It's a pity really because I think Poland carries more relevance/weight than those end-of-season Chinese tours, and as much weight as the Catalonia or the Pais Vasco.

Nonetheless I think Nibali and Wiggins (if he’s considering the WC RR) will fight it out on stage 6, Kangert too if he’s allowed, maybe also Izaguirre, LL Sanchez, Kiselovski and Visconti. That stage is their trial run for the WC RR at Florence.

That's cycling though; more often than not riders are riding in preparation for something else. With Nibali and Wiggins, they're riding their first race in 2+ months, and much as we'd like them to, it would be unrealistic to expect them to come in flying.

I think there is actually a decent amount of talent riding for GC in Poland. Majka, Henao, Kiserlovski, Pozzovivo, Capecchi - all still in contention. That's not bad. It's one of those races that is contended by the next big names in cycling - recently Sagan, Moser, Dan Martin, Kwiatkowski, Henao, rather than those who've already made it.

andyp

Say, for argument's sake, that Wiggins won the Tour of Poland. Half the people on here would be decrying him for wasting his time winning a chipper.

Richmond Racer

andyp wrote:

Say, for argument's sake, that Wiggins won the Tour of Poland. Half the people on here would be decrying him for wasting his time winning a chipper.

Nail. Head.

iainf72

I'm just pleased to see Sky aren't afraid to mix it up a bit. Run at 95% for a whole year in 2012, but run at about 60% in 2013 with a peak for a single event.

Old skool

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

sportvan wrote:

Bradley Wiggins appears to be soft peddling his way around this tour for 2M per year, Riders like Ian Stannard and others bust a gut almost every race for 50K a year.

No one who makes Skys TdF squad earns 50K. I doubt anyone who rides for Sky is on that little.

Its taken me 13 hours to stop laughing at the idea of Stan and others being on 50k smackers

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

I'm just pleased to see Sky aren't afraid to mix it up a bit. Run at 95% for a whole year in 2012, but run at about 60% in 2013 with a peak for a single event.

Old skool

Well, to date GC wins at Oman, P-R, CI, ToR, Romandie, Norway, plus a 2nd at the Giro. Currently heading up the UCI team rankings with 245 points over next team, Movistar.

If that's at 60%, imagine what they could do if they put in a bit more effort in

frenchfighter

Turfle wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Wiggins was with Henao until the foot of the final climb. That was his job.

People who didn't watch the race (ff) shouldn't comment on who did/didn't earn their money.

And the same yesterday? So he is being paid to come to this race and ride on the flat for Henao? If he is supposedly riding for Henao then he should still be good enough to finish with a few mins.

I suppose he will magically turn up to the Worlds with ridiculously good form though.

And anyway, there are many riders in this race who I was referring to. Just scroll down the list and you will see that there are some very good riders other than Wiggins and Nibali in this race who are soft pedalling.

This is precisely why you shouldn't comment on who earned their money.

Nibali was in the break all day. You don't know that because you just looked at the results and assumed he soft-pedaled.

Wiggins was the only Sky rider with Henao on the final climb. There were 3 cat 1 climbs in the final 60k - he wasn't riding "on the flat" for Henao.

Thank you for you continual condescending posting. I know he was in the break and I also know he failed but that Riblon didin`t. I also know what the profile was (in case you aren`t aware, I started this thread and posted the profiles). I dont care if Nibali had two months off - he should have enough talent to rock up and perform even if it isn`t winning. Wiggins was the only Sky rider left - this shouldnt surprise you as he has quite a bit of talent...Uran should be up there too though.

andyp wrote:

Say, for argument's sake, that Wiggins won the Tour of Poland. Half the people on here would be decrying him for wasting his time winning a chipper.

I for one would not be.

prawny

frenchfighter wrote:

andyp wrote:

Say, for argument's sake, that Wiggins won the Tour of Poland. Half the people on here would be decrying him for wasting his time winning a chipper.

I for one would not be.

No you'd be sqwarking about deux vittesse and such like

iainf72

Richmond Racer wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I'm just pleased to see Sky aren't afraid to mix it up a bit. Run at 95% for a whole year in 2012, but run at about 60% in 2013 with a peak for a single event.

Old skool

Well, to date GC wins at Oman, P-R, CI, ToR, Romandie, Norway, plus a 2nd at the Giro. Currently heading up the UCI team rankings with 245 points over next team, Movistar.

If that's at 60%, imagine what they could do if they put in a bit more effort in

I was referring to Wiggins specifically.

Last year he won practically everything he entered keeping a constantly high level. This year, not so much.

prawny

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I'm just pleased to see Sky aren't afraid to mix it up a bit. Run at 95% for a whole year in 2012, but run at about 60% in 2013 with a peak for a single event.

Old skool

Well, to date GC wins at Oman, P-R, CI, ToR, Romandie, Norway, plus a 2nd at the Giro. Currently heading up the UCI team rankings with 245 points over next team, Movistar.

If that's at 60%, imagine what they could do if they put in a bit more effort in

I was referring to Wiggins specifically.

Last year he won practically everything he entered keeping a constantly high level. This year, not so much.

I reckon wiggo will struggle to give a shit year in year out, he's not been used to the constant pressure. Wait another 3 years, he'll smash it then.

More seriously, he's not had the same luck as he had last year starting with being knocked off his bike last season, then how he was at the Giro. But I've always had the impression he was desperate to win the Tour, but not so keen to keep making the sacrifices he had to make last year. I know as a parent I wouldn't.

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I'm just pleased to see Sky aren't afraid to mix it up a bit. Run at 95% for a whole year in 2012, but run at about 60% in 2013 with a peak for a single event.

Old skool

Well, to date GC wins at Oman, P-R, CI, ToR, Romandie, Norway, plus a 2nd at the Giro. Currently heading up the UCI team rankings with 245 points over next team, Movistar.

If that's at 60%, imagine what they could do if they put in a bit more effort in

I was referring to Wiggins specifically.

Last year he won practically everything he entered keeping a constantly high level. This year, not so much.

But Froome's done that instead

iainf72

Richmond Racer wrote:

But Froome's done that instead

Quite. So last year Wiggins did well because he maintained form for the whole year without any variance and that's the way forward.

This year he's getting dropped in races and is "building form"

Weren't there reports that Wiggins was ripping it up in training in Majorca?

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

But Froome's done that instead

Quite. So last year Wiggins did well because he maintained form for the whole year without any variance and that's the way forward.

This year he's getting dropped in races and is "building form"

Weren't there reports that Wiggins was ripping it up in training in Majorca?

If anyone thinks its the same situation with Wiggins this year as last year, they're leaving on Planet Zanussi

As for the 'reports' you're mentioning, presumably the one tweet from Richard Moore during the Tour? We could always ask him for his source, I guess

calvjones

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

But Froome's done that instead

Quite. So last year Wiggins did well because he maintained form for the whole year without any variance and that's the way forward.

This year he's getting dropped in races and is "building form"

Weren't there reports that Wiggins was ripping it up in training in Majorca?

Maybe in the bars of Majorca

Richmond Racer

calvjones wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

But Froome's done that instead

Quite. So last year Wiggins did well because he maintained form for the whole year without any variance and that's the way forward.

This year he's getting dropped in races and is "building form"

Weren't there reports that Wiggins was ripping it up in training in Majorca?

Maybe in the bars of Majorca

And surprise, it comes back to the usual jibe. So think Nibbles might have been with him in those bars? After all, Nibz says he's put on a couple of kgs - maybe too many sambuccas?

iainf72

Richmond Racer wrote:

And surprise, it comes back to the usual jibe. So think Nibbles might have been with him in those bars? After all, Nibz says he's put on a couple of kgs - maybe too many sambuccas?

Nibbles has won a few races this year - He can do what he likes :P

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

And surprise, it comes back to the usual jibe. So think Nibbles might have been with him in those bars? After all, Nibz says he's put on a couple of kgs - maybe too many sambuccas?

Nibbles has won a few races this year - He can do what he likes :P

I call double standards

and I poke out my tongue back at you :P

thomthom

So, came back to see the highlights of today's stage and what do you give me.. A bloody rest day two days in?

One could argue that Krakow is a couple of kilometres away from Pordoi but let's not get soft here!

Richmond Racer

ThomThom wrote:

So, came back to see the highlights of today's stage and what do you give me.. A bloody rest day two days in?

One could argue that Krakow is a couple of kilometres away from Pordoi but let's not get soft here!

The racers of today, eh? Think they have it tough. Tough! They know NUFFINK :evil:

mechanism

Don't forget they have to get their chef's vehicles over to Poland before they can contemplate doing more bicycle racing.

Give me more

ThomThom wrote:

So, came back to see the highlights of today's stage and what do you give me.. A bloody rest day two days in?

hah, I did try to remind people in the thread on Sunday!

late finish time again today, coverage doesn't start till like 4:30 BST