TdF 2013 - Stage 20 ***Spoilers*** Annecy - Semnoz

mike6

dougzz wrote:

Is it me or have these threads got really poor. It's like being on a football forum with too many people just blindly supporting one team/person or another. I know one person creates a lot of it, but it's easy to ignore madness, you don't have to respond. Still a lot of great posts but it feels like you have to wade through a lot more dross than in previous years.

You are spot on. I promised myself I would not rise to a certain posters juvenile rants, but I could not resist. I will not be tempted again. If we all do the same, and ignore the more surreal posts, the forum will be a better place to discuss racing. :roll:

Yellow Peril

I'm guessing a lot of the top 10 (Froome excepted) will be looking to go to the Vuelta. I'm sure Movistar will wheel Quintana out again. Could be a GT winner this season?

gsk82

DeadCalm wrote:

We'll obviously never know for sure but, either Wiggins' injury or Sky's internal politics (depending on who you believe) robbed us of a potentially exciting GC battle.

I reckon that if Wiggins was there sky would've been far stronger which would've probably made the race overall less exciting. Id imagine that froome wouldn't have been isolated into bigorre or last time in the cross winds with Wiggins there.

Macaloon

gsk82 wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

We'll obviously never know for sure but, either Wiggins' injury or Sky's internal politics (depending on who you believe) robbed us of a potentially exciting GC battle.

I reckon that if Wiggins was there sky would've been far stronger which would've probably made the race overall less exciting. Id imagine that froome wouldn't have been isolated into bigorre or last time in the cross winds with Wiggins there.

Excellent Humans Invent (http://audioboo.fm/boos/1511622-stage-20-annecy-to-annecy-semnoz) banter about Friggo. Speculating about Wiggo in the Porte role up Alpe D'huez, and whether he would have given Froome the gel Also some insightful stuff about Froome and Kenya right at the start. Might be useful for FF's Froome dossier.

frisbee

There are a number of riders that are Froome's equal (can't say better as some silly doping witch hunter has determined that the human body can't generate more than 6.2398656 W/kg :roll: ).

The big problem they have though is the teams, Sky at their worst is so much better than the other teams at their best. Their tactics and training methods provide them with an advantage equal to or better than pumping some random amount of drugs in.

And its not something the riders can take to another team, without the specific knowledge, analysis techniques and tailoring its just as likely to have a negative effect.

thejimmymethod

DeadCalm wrote:

On Ax 3 Domaines, Froome attacked, what 7 kms from the finish? He built a big lead quite quickly and then the gap stayed steady except for Porte who was closing it? It's not unreasonable to think that Wiggins time trialing up the mountain would have beaten Porte by at least 30 seconds. Porte only lost 50ish to Froome. So, actually, not much of a loss for Wiggins if any at all.

On Ventoux it's harder to gauge but there was a similar early attack which gained ground initially and not much movement thereafter. I'd not be at all surprised if Wiggins' approach of going up a mountain at his pace would have seen him come in close to Froome and Quintana.

We'll obviously never know for sure but, either Wiggins' injury or Sky's internal politics (depending on who you believe) robbed us of a potentially exciting GC battle.

Would've been interesting, the Wiggins tactic worked well for Mollema and Ten Dam for the most part. Wiggins would not have lost time in the TTs the way they did, and would probably have gained time in the first one. It's a shame.

Give me more

Yellow Peril wrote:

I'm guessing a lot of the top 10 (Froome excepted) will be looking to go to the Vuelta. I'm sure Movistar will wheel Quintana out again. Could be a GT winner this season?

Contador is confirmed not attending too I believe.

I feel like Movistar will look to Valverde again, he rode a good TdF and put in the work for Quintana himself once the mechanical scuppered his own challenge. It's hard to know how much energy Quintana spent on the TdF, but given he's not ridden 2 GT's in a year before I think if he rides the Vuelta it will be in a supporting role for now.

lloyd_bower

frenchfighter wrote:

For all you Contador haters he is only one of five riders who have won all three Grand Tours in their career. Five.

Also, little fact for you who talk shoot about his 07 win - Ras was 2.23 ahead of him before he got pulled and he only won the Tour by less than a minute.

He is Certified beyond anything your boy Froome could ever dream of let alone achieve. He has 7 GTs to Froome's one. Anything he does from now on is just a bonus. And he will - still racking and stacking. You dont judge a rider by their last race, you judge them by their whole career.

7GTs? The only record books showing Contador with 7 GT wins, would be ones showing Lance Armstrong with 7 Tours to his name. 5 maybe, realistically 1 post ban, anyone thinking any of his pre-ban GT wins weren't chemical assisted must be in cuckoo land.
As for the 07 gaps, Amstrong 'won' the 03 Tour by 1.01, so what?

All 3 GTs, few riders are able to target all 3GT seriously in their career. I'd say a Tour and World Champ on the CV, like LeMonde or Evans is decent enough.

As to anything now onwards being a bonus, he's only 30 & he should be in his prime, the last two Tour winners were both the wrong of 30.

I'd agree you don't judge a rider by his last race, but I don't see Wiggins winning the Tour next year, even though he was supposedly aiming for Giro/Tour double this year. Most sensible judges said it was impossible, and that the Giro was far from a certainty, as things proved.

Froome was top dog this year, no doubt he's likely to win a few more GTs (he's a couple of 2nd's on his cv, both when riding in support), but difficult to see him winning a stackful. There's plenty of competition around.

On to the Vuelta then, if it's Contador v Valverde, questions will be asked! It simply ain't possible to peak in 2 straight GTs, if they're riding against fresher riders who've skipped the tour. Both, Contador certainly have given 100% in the Tour, and Valverde won't be far off that either, despite losing the early time, he's ridden hard the few stages.

No_Ta_Doctor

It would have been interesting with a fit Wiggo at the tour, that's for sure.

All pure speculation, but fun nonetheless. I think Froome would still have won it, I'm not sure we'd have seen a full scale civil war in Sky.

To be able to play both Froome and Wiggins effectively, Porte would have had to put in his shift on the mountain, Froome jump (with Quintana?) and then you're left wondering what Wiggins does, as he probably has Contador on his wheel.

mike6

For all the talk of "Legends" there are only two in the current peloton, In my opinion.

Jens Voigt. Nearly 42, ridden how many Tours? Still just gets on the front and nails it, making the rest of the, much younger, peloton hurt and hurt and hurt.

Cavendish. The best sprinter of his generation. Love him or hate him he is a legend, all the other sprinters know its a very special day if they beat him in a straight sprint. 4 straight wins in Paris, might make it 5.

lloyd_bower

mike6 wrote:

For all the talk of "Legends" there are only two in the current peloton, In my opinion.

Jens Voigt. Nearly 42, ridden how many Tours? Still just gets on the front and nails it, making the rest of the, much younger, peloton hurt and hurt and hurt.

Cavendish. The best sprinter of his generation. Love him or hate him he is a legend, all the other sprinters know its a very special day if they beat him in a straight sprint. 4 straight wins in Paris, might make it 5.

I'd agree re: Cav, unbeaten on the Champs Elysee, 4 finishes, 4 wins. He might find today tough though, no yellow jersey lead out too.

Unsure about Jens Voigt, isn't supposedly anti revealing the retests from 98'? though would he have been riding then?

mfin

I only place one small bet on the TDF and put it on early June, put £5 each way on J rod at 18/1, so a couple of quid coming back.

mike6

mfin wrote:

I only place one small bet on the TDF and put it on early June, put £5 each way on J rod at 18/1, so a couple of quid coming back.

Nice one my man. Any tips for the Vuelta?

mfin

mike6 wrote:

mfin wrote:

I only place one small bet on the TDF and put it on early June, put £5 each way on J rod at 18/1, so a couple of quid coming back.

Nice one my man. Any tips for the Vuelta?

Well, I knew Froome would wrap it up, so the only sensible simple thing to do was an e/w bet on someone else... I couldn't find a way of betting for the exact position on-line or I would have gone for 3rd as I never thought he'd get second.

Can't see all the odds on the Vuelta anywhere yet! Only a bit of fun, I'll put the winnings onto a Vuelta bet when I see them though.

Hardly big money though is it ...will pay for some Ice Creams this week though (stuff putting the winnings on the Vuelta)!

frenchfighter