TdF 2013 - Stage 20 ***Spoilers*** Annecy - Semnoz

frenchfighter

When Quintana won le Tour d'Avenir in 2010 he was a national hero. Cant imagine how he will be received now. Wow.

cyclingsheep

Hey FF, I've never gotten into you about your Sky dislike and I'm not about to but Contador and Froome are at different stages of their careers. Maybe once all the dust settles in 20yrs both riders will be remembered fondly (and through rose tinted glasses by all parties) for their attacks in the mountains. Sure Contador looks great when he attacks out of the saddle but Froome attacks seated as (and I'm only guessing here but it's my view) he trains mainly it seems for TTs which are seated efforts and he feels more comfortable putting the power down that way? Different doesn't mean wrong, it just means different.

Dorset_Boy

Frenchie trolling again - which record books show Contador with 7 GT wins?
5 presently, of which at least 4 were due to being doped to the eyeballs.

Great to see the cheat knocked off the podium today.

frenchfighter

andyp wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Why does not liking Contador make Froome "my boy".

In FF's world there is only black and white. No shades of grey. (Although he'd probably blush himself to death if he read that book).

Ha, you are right Andy. Far too common for me to pick up a copy.

Mikey23

Isn't he from dunblane in Scotland? Oh no, that was last weeks plucky Brit hero ...

frenchfighter

cyclingsheep wrote:

Hey FF, I've never gotten into you about your Sky dislike and I'm not about to but Contador and Froome are at different stages of their careers. Maybe once all the dust settles in 20yrs both riders will be remembered fondly (and through rose tinted glasses by all parties) for their attacks in the mountains. Sure Contador looks great when he attacks out of the saddle but Froome attacks seated as (and I'm only guessing here but it's my view) he trains mainly it seems for TTs which are seated efforts and he feels more comfortable putting the power down that way? Different doesn't mean wrong, it just means different.

Not wrong no. Evidently it works. I have a lot of respect for the way Froome attacks and is as a rider with a touch of unpredictability but I dislike him, his style-less ness, his attitude, his Sky-ness, his lacking totally of old-school, his head bobbing and I just cant be fully sure of what I am seeing.

ps. a lot of it is about restoring balance/ pro sky, anti Contador. One way forums are not a success.

frenchfighter

B3rnieMac

As much as I don't like Contador, remember he has still won a GT in the past 12 months and is far from finished. I like him more post ban, a more vulnerable but still very talented rider makes for more interesting races.

disgruntledgoat

frenchfighter wrote:

cyclingsheep wrote:

Hey FF, I've never gotten into you about your Sky dislike and I'm not about to but Contador and Froome are at different stages of their careers. Maybe once all the dust settles in 20yrs both riders will be remembered fondly (and through rose tinted glasses by all parties) for their attacks in the mountains. Sure Contador looks great when he attacks out of the saddle but Froome attacks seated as (and I'm only guessing here but it's my view) he trains mainly it seems for TTs which are seated efforts and he feels more comfortable putting the power down that way? Different doesn't mean wrong, it just means different.

Not wrong no. Evidently it works. I have a lot of respect for the way Froome attacks and is as a rider with a touch of unpredictability but I dislike him, his style-less ness, his attitude, his Sky-ness, his lacking totally of old-school, his head bobbing and I just cant be fully sure of what I am seeing.

ps. a lot of it is about restoring balance/ pro sky, anti Contador. One way forums are not a success.

In this, I agree.

ermintrude

'when I do the Chris Froome thread' tell you what FF take some advice from Thumper 'if you can't say anything nice say nothin at all' (Bambi)

cyclingsheep

frenchfighter wrote:

cyclingsheep wrote:

Hey FF, I've never gotten into you about your Sky dislike and I'm not about to but Contador and Froome are at different stages of their careers. Maybe once all the dust settles in 20yrs both riders will be remembered fondly (and through rose tinted glasses by all parties) for their attacks in the mountains. Sure Contador looks great when he attacks out of the saddle but Froome attacks seated as (and I'm only guessing here but it's my view) he trains mainly it seems for TTs which are seated efforts and he feels more comfortable putting the power down that way? Different doesn't mean wrong, it just means different.

Not wrong no. Evidently it works. I have a lot of respect for the way Froome attacks and is as a rider with a touch of unpredictability but I dislike him, his style-less ness, his attitude, his Sky-ness, his lacking totally of old-school, his head bobbing and I just cant be fully sure of what I am seeing.

ps. a lot of it is about restoring balance/ pro sky, anti Contador. One way forums are not a success.

Strangely I was not a fan of Froome before this tour, I thought some of his petulance last year with Wiggo and his attack on Porte in the Criterium Int this year showed disrespect to his team mates but seeing him away from the race with fans and even the media I've warmed to him and I think when he was isolated he showed great character to hang on ( in a way I'm not convinced Wiggo could have in a similar situation). Not saying he's one of my favourite riders, just that I've warmed to him

frenchfighter

ermintrude wrote:

'when I do the Chris Froome thread' tell you what FF take some advice from Thumper 'if you can't say anything nice say nothin at all' (Bambi)

Hello bernie. You have had a few digs at me eh. Better try harder tho.

You might be surprised; keep your eyes peeled :shock:

disgruntledgoat

cyclingsheep wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

cyclingsheep wrote:

Hey FF, I've never gotten into you about your Sky dislike and I'm not about to but Contador and Froome are at different stages of their careers. Maybe once all the dust settles in 20yrs both riders will be remembered fondly (and through rose tinted glasses by all parties) for their attacks in the mountains. Sure Contador looks great when he attacks out of the saddle but Froome attacks seated as (and I'm only guessing here but it's my view) he trains mainly it seems for TTs which are seated efforts and he feels more comfortable putting the power down that way? Different doesn't mean wrong, it just means different.

Not wrong no. Evidently it works. I have a lot of respect for the way Froome attacks and is as a rider with a touch of unpredictability but I dislike him, his style-less ness, his attitude, his Sky-ness, his lacking totally of old-school, his head bobbing and I just cant be fully sure of what I am seeing.

ps. a lot of it is about restoring balance/ pro sky, anti Contador. One way forums are not a success.

Strangely I was not a fan of Froome before this tour, I thought some of his petulance last year with Wiggo and his attack on Porte in the Criterium Int this year showed disrespect to his team mates but seeing him away from the race with fans and even the media I've warmed to him and I think when he was isolated he showed great character to hang on ( in a way I'm not convinced Wiggo could have in a similar situation). Not saying he's one of my favourite riders, just that I've warmed to him

I just find him a total blank slate.

alihisgreat

frenchfighter wrote:

For all you Contador haters he is only one of five riders who have won all three Grand Tours in their career. Five.

Also, little fact for you who talk shoot about his 07 win - Ras was 2.23 ahead of him before he got pulled and he only won the Tour by less than a minute.

He is Certified beyond anything your boy Froome could ever dream of let alone achieve. He has 7 GTs to Froome's one. Anything he does from now on is just a bonus. And he will - still racking and stacking. You dont judge a rider by their last race, you judge them by their whole career.

ermm judging by Froome's performances from La Vuelta 2011 onwards I wouldn't really bet against him going on to become one of the the greatest stage racers of all time - thus putting him firmly into the same territory that you place Dirty Bertie in. He definitely can dream of achieving a palmares similar to Contador.. But you can also bet on Froome never having an asterisk next to his name for a doping offence.

frenchfighter

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

For all you Contador haters he is only one of five riders who have won all three Grand Tours in their career. Five.

Also, little fact for you who talk shoot about his 07 win - Ras was 2.23 ahead of him before he got pulled and he only won the Tour by less than a minute.

He is Certified beyond anything your boy Froome could ever dream of let alone achieve. He has 7 GTs to Froome's one. Anything he does from now on is just a bonus. And he will - still racking and stacking. You dont judge a rider by their last race, you judge them by their whole career.

ermm judging by Froome's performances from La Vuelta 2011 onwards I wouldn't really bet against him going on to become one of the the greatest stage racers of all time - thus putting him firmly into the same territory that you place Dirty Bertie in. He definitely can dream of achieving a palmares similar to Contador.. But you can also bet on Froome never having an asterisk next to his name for a doping offence.

Froome is a bit old n'est pas? Do you know how many GTs El Pistelero had won when he was Chris' age?

TheBigBean

SecretSqirrel wrote:

mfin wrote:

Naaaaa. He's a drug cheat.

Careful....

If Contador is a drugs cheat, he has been beaten by.....?

If he has been beaten because he's 'not so good without the beef' then he as just achieved a 4th place in a GT clean!

He is undoubtedly a talented rider, and is not done yet.

Worth noting that Contador's three recorded times up Alpe d'Huez from 2010, 2011 and 2013 are all very similar (around 42 mins). Infer what you wish from this, but I find it interesting.

B3rnieMac

frenchfighter wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

For all you Contador haters he is only one of five riders who have won all three Grand Tours in their career. Five.

Also, little fact for you who talk shoot about his 07 win - Ras was 2.23 ahead of him before he got pulled and he only won the Tour by less than a minute.

He is Certified beyond anything your boy Froome could ever dream of let alone achieve. He has 7 GTs to Froome's one. Anything he does from now on is just a bonus. And he will - still racking and stacking. You dont judge a rider by their last race, you judge them by their whole career.

ermm judging by Froome's performances from La Vuelta 2011 onwards I wouldn't really bet against him going on to become one of the the greatest stage racers of all time - thus putting him firmly into the same territory that you place Dirty Bertie in. He definitely can dream of achieving a palmares similar to Contador.. But you can also bet on Froome never having an asterisk next to his name for a doping offence.

Froome is a bit old n'est pas? Do you know how many GTs El Pistelero had won when he was Chris' age?

4. He's only added one since then. Froome has plenty of time to surpass Alberto, seems like a big gulf between Froome and everyone else for the time being.

DeadCalm

mfin wrote:

I think if Kreuz had been the leader for Saxo not Contacheat then he could have done better this year.

Not to take anything away from Contador, he'd make a great Domestique.

There is some really puerile name calling going on of which this is just an example. Seriously, how old are you?

alihisgreat

B3rnieMac wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

For all you Contador haters he is only one of five riders who have won all three Grand Tours in their career. Five.

Also, little fact for you who talk shoot about his 07 win - Ras was 2.23 ahead of him before he got pulled and he only won the Tour by less than a minute.

He is Certified beyond anything your boy Froome could ever dream of let alone achieve. He has 7 GTs to Froome's one. Anything he does from now on is just a bonus. And he will - still racking and stacking. You dont judge a rider by their last race, you judge them by their whole career.

ermm judging by Froome's performances from La Vuelta 2011 onwards I wouldn't really bet against him going on to become one of the the greatest stage racers of all time - thus putting him firmly into the same territory that you place Dirty Bertie in. He definitely can dream of achieving a palmares similar to Contador.. But you can also bet on Froome never having an asterisk next to his name for a doping offence.

Froome is a bit old n'est pas? Do you know how many GTs El Pistelero had won when he was Chris' age?

4. He's only added one since then. Froome has plenty of time to surpass Alberto, seems like a big gulf between Froome and everyone else for the time being.

Actually fair point.. If we compare to Contador then Froome's only got two more years before they send him to the glue factory.

.......or maybe 6+ more years if we compare him to Evans.

DeadCalm

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

B3rnieMac wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

For all you Contador haters he is only one of five riders who have won all three Grand Tours in their career. Five.

Also, little fact for you who talk shoot about his 07 win - Ras was 2.23 ahead of him before he got pulled and he only won the Tour by less than a minute.

He is Certified beyond anything your boy Froome could ever dream of let alone achieve. He has 7 GTs to Froome's one. Anything he does from now on is just a bonus. And he will - still racking and stacking. You dont judge a rider by their last race, you judge them by their whole career.

ermm judging by Froome's performances from La Vuelta 2011 onwards I wouldn't really bet against him going on to become one of the the greatest stage racers of all time - thus putting him firmly into the same territory that you place Dirty Bertie in. He definitely can dream of achieving a palmares similar to Contador.. But you can also bet on Froome never having an asterisk next to his name for a doping offence.

Froome is a bit old n'est pas? Do you know how many GTs El Pistelero had won when he was Chris' age?

4. He's only added one since then. Froome has plenty of time to surpass Alberto, seems like a big gulf between Froome and everyone else for the time being.

Actually fair point.. If we compare to Contador then Froome's only got two more years before they send him to the glue factory.

.......or maybe 6+ more years if we compare him to Evans.

Different kinds of riders.

Everyone seems to think Froome is going to dominate everything for the foreseeable future. He's had a great season but I think it's a touch early to be awarding him legendary status just yet.

For me, his masterstroke was not on the bike but somehow maneuvering Wiggins into targeting the Giro this year. An on form Wiggins with Sky fully in support of him would almost certainly have won that Tour. If he and Froome had ridden as co-leaders, it would have been close and I'm unconvinced that Froome would have come out on top.

Turfle

I think even the Wiggins of 2012 would have struggled to stay within 3 minutes of Froome on this parcours. He'd take, what maybe 30 seconds in each time trial, maybe a bit more/less, but he'd have been left in the wake on Ax 3 Domaines and on Ventoux. On last year's parcours I think it would be a decent fight.

As for next year, well if there is a more usual amount of TTing (say a 50k flat one rather than the uphill one), then it's hard to see anyone competing with Froome. If it's similar to this year then Quintana will go much closer.

edit: and also can't forget Nibali. Can his TT improve again?

alihisgreat

Different kinds of riders.

Everyone seems to think Froome is going to dominate everything for the foreseeable future. He's had a great season but I think it's a touch early to be awarding him legendary status just yet.

For me, his masterstroke was not on the bike but somehow maneuvering Wiggins into targeting the Giro this year. An on form Wiggins with Sky fully in support of him would almost certainly have won that Tour. If he and Froome had ridden as co-leaders, it would have been close and I'm unconvinced that Froome would have come out on top.

I'm not calling him a legend yet! Just making the point that he's got enough ability, and enough time left to work towards it - its a bit unfair of FF to place Contador on an unreachable pedestal above Froome.

and regarding the Wiggins thing.. I can imagine Froome having a tantrum and saying "You've seen the numbers.. I'm off to BMC/Saxo/Garmin next year if you don't give me the tour"

mfin

DeadCalm wrote:

mfin wrote:

I think if Kreuz had been the leader for Saxo not Contacheat then he could have done better this year.

Not to take anything away from Contador, he'd make a great Domestique.

There is some really puerile name calling going on of which this is just an example. Seriously, how old are you?

I don't take anything too seriously.

There is a bit of Contador rubbish being spouted here though, he's doped himself to the eyeballs for years so having a bit of laugh about him is great. I've been waiting for him to lose his podium position and today was a good day in my opinion as an unrepentent multi-cheat like Contaberk doesn't deserve to be competing in any sport.

Let's face it, he's hardly made this Tour exciting has he, I'd assume he's backed off the gear a bit, but even that would show he's not much of an exciting spectacle unless he's juiced to buggery.

On a Froome note, he does come across as yet another dull and bland personality when being interviewed, he's about as far from a barrel of laughs as taking a dog to the vets to be put down.

DeadCalm

On Ax 3 Domaines, Froome attacked, what 7 kms from the finish? He built a big lead quite quickly and then the gap stayed steady except for Porte who was closing it? It's not unreasonable to think that Wiggins time trialing up the mountain would have beaten Porte by at least 30 seconds. Porte only lost 50ish to Froome. So, actually, not much of a loss for Wiggins if any at all.

On Ventoux it's harder to gauge but there was a similar early attack which gained ground initially and not much movement thereafter. I'd not be at all surprised if Wiggins' approach of going up a mountain at his pace would have seen him come in close to Froome and Quintana.

We'll obviously never know for sure but, either Wiggins' injury or Sky's internal politics (depending on who you believe) robbed us of a potentially exciting GC battle.

DeadCalm

mfin wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

mfin wrote:

I think if Kreuz had been the leader for Saxo not Contacheat then he could have done better this year.

Not to take anything away from Contador, he'd make a great Domestique.

There is some really puerile name calling going on of which this is just an example. Seriously, how old are you?

I don't take anything too seriously.

There is a bit of Contador rubbish being spouted here though, he's doped himself to the eyeballs for years so having a bit of laugh about him is great. I've been waiting for him to lose his podium position and today was a good day in my opinion as an unrepentent multi-cheat like Contaberk doesn't deserve to be competing in any sport.

Let's face it, he's hardly made this Tour exciting has he, I'd assume he's backed off the gear a bit, but even that would show he's not much of an exciting spectacle unless he's juiced to buggery.

On a Froome note, he does come across as yet another dull and bland personality when being interviewed, he's about as far from a barrel of laughs as taking a dog to the vets to be put down.

You didn't answer my question although your response gives me a pretty good idea. Goodbye!

mfin

DeadCalm wrote:

mfin wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

mfin wrote:

I think if Kreuz had been the leader for Saxo not Contacheat then he could have done better this year.

Not to take anything away from Contador, he'd make a great Domestique.

There is some really puerile name calling going on of which this is just an example. Seriously, how old are you?

I don't take anything too seriously.

There is a bit of Contador rubbish being spouted here though, he's doped himself to the eyeballs for years so having a bit of laugh about him is great. I've been waiting for him to lose his podium position and today was a good day in my opinion as an unrepentent multi-cheat like Contaberk doesn't deserve to be competing in any sport.

Let's face it, he's hardly made this Tour exciting has he, I'd assume he's backed off the gear a bit, but even that would show he's not much of an exciting spectacle unless he's juiced to buggery.

On a Froome note, he does come across as yet another dull and bland personality when being interviewed, he's about as far from a barrel of laughs as taking a dog to the vets to be put down.

You didn't answer my question although your response gives me a pretty good idea. Goodbye!

Have a guess, without saying 12

Old enough to not have an avatar of a cyclist I might like and old enough to not get up tight over what other people say for a laugh on the internet.

hammerite

Froome has had a fantastic race and great season, but I feel bestowing domination on him for the next few years might be jumping the gun a little (although he's certainly capable).

There's lots of exciting riders who aren't far off being able to compete if they get things right.....

Rodriguez, Valverde, Contador, the Dutchies, Kreuziger, Uran, Evans, Wiggins, Schleck, Porte of the older riders..... Of the younger riders, Quintana, Henao, Majka, Kwiatkowski, Talansky, Betancur, TJ (and even Little Pete). And we can't forget the other top stage racer - Nibali.

With the exception of Betancur all of the younger riders can ride a decent flat TT, this is often the downfall of some promising riders.

Quite exciting times really if they all live up to their promise and use their good recent GT performances as a springboard to future success like Froome has since Vuelta 2011.

dougzz

Is it me or have these threads got really poor. It's like being on a football forum with too many people just blindly supporting one team/person or another. I know one person creates a lot of it, but it's easy to ignore madness, you don't have to respond. Still a lot of great posts but it feels like you have to wade through a lot more dross than in previous years.

Cleat Eastwood

Above The Cows wrote:

OK so GiggleGate was over something to do with Bauke Mollema. I wonder what...?

On the podcast Boardman said it was a french broadcaster called the dutch rider Bob Mallka and mentioned a Quintador and a Contana- boardman had written the names down and glanced at them just as they were about to go on air, and that started them off.

mididoctors

dougzz wrote:

Is it me or have these threads got really poor. It's like being on a football forum with too many people just blindly supporting one team/person or another. I know one person creates a lot of it, but it's easy to ignore madness, you don't have to respond. Still a lot of great posts but it feels like you have to wade through a lot more dross than in previous years.

+1

its next to fffing impossible to get a discussion about the racing going because there is 2-zillion pages of utter 5hit between posters who may have had something to say to each other of merit