TDF 2013 Stage 18 L'Alpe d'Huez *Spoilers*

goonz

1. David Millar ‏@millarmind 3m

Dear Greenedge Bus, please can you park yourself under the finish line today, BEFORE we pass for the first time. Much appreciated. David

RichN95.

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

‏@peterstetina
all these guys bitching about the sarenne descent tomorrow; they aint Giro regulars. Batshit DH = standard in the Giro. #normal #goatpaths

CHECK. Giro is the GT for racers.

It's also the race where someone was killed on a descent two years ago.

Though to be fair, on a descent that was regarded as pretty safe, as descents go.

Oh sure. But under those circumstances it's probably not wise to hold up unsafe descents as a positive feature.

disgruntledgoat

ddraver wrote:

What's the story there? I missed it...

You remember, the one with the mattresses on! Monte Crostis. Was cancelled the day before, after agreement that it was safe.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/526444/giro-madness-zoncolan-stage-modified-in-final-hours.html

THis is the same Bjarne Riis who wants riders concerned about the Sarenne descent to "toughen up" today.

frenchfighter

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

‏@peterstetina
all these guys bitching about the sarenne descent tomorrow; they aint Giro regulars. Batshit DH = standard in the Giro. #normal #goatpaths

CHECK. Giro is the GT for racers.

It's also the race where someone was killed on a descent two years ago.

Though to be fair, on a descent that was regarded as pretty safe, as descents go.

Oh sure. But under those circumstances it's probably not wise to hold up unsafe descents as a positive feature.

Of course not a positive feature and I am not advocating dangerous routes - if anything it discourages rather than encourages crazy racing.

I don`t really want to prolong the discussion as there are many ways it can be taken and I haven`t got the time or the inclination.

Macaloon

Quintana for the stage. Sky's main concern is the weakness of their team in the face of concerted attacks from Movi/Saxo/Belkin. A 'gentleman's agreement' that Quintana can 'contest' the win with Froome in the event that both teams need to ride down a Saxo break suits Sky. It's also the best chance for Movistar to put a rider on the podium.

shazzz

I've been dreading this stage for months. I just can't see beyond the vision of some simpleton running alongside the leaders in a hilarious outfit falling over and in to the leaders, motor bikes crashing all over the place and the Alpe so packed with fans that there is no room to attack.
My nerves are in shreds after the Ventoux stage!

Turfle

Alberto Contador ‏@albertocontador 29s
Hill top finish today with two times up Alpe D'Huez! Who knows what will happen...??


Hill? Hill??? It's a blooming mountain, Alberto.

Runtothehills

Macaloon wrote:

Quintana for the stage. Sky's main concern is the weakness of their team in the face of concerted attacks from Movi/Saxo/Belkin. A 'gentleman's agreement' that Quintana can 'contest' the win with Froome in the event that both teams need to ride down a Saxo break suits Sky. It's also the best chance for Movistar to put a rider on the podium.

Could Quintana be the deciding factor without a gentleman's agreement. He's nearly 7 min behind Froome but less than 2.5 min behind Contador etc. Surely this means if Quintana attacks Froome doesn't have to cover it immediately but if Contador, Kreuziger and Mollema want a podium place they will have to go after him straight away, giving Froome a free ride.

Tom Butcher

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

‏@peterstetina
all these guys bitching about the sarenne descent tomorrow; they aint Giro regulars. Batshit DH = standard in the Giro. #normal #goatpaths

CHECK. Giro is the GT for racers.

It's also the race where someone was killed on a descent two years ago.

Though to be fair, on a descent that was regarded as pretty safe, as descents go.

Oh sure. But under those circumstances it's probably not wise to hold up unsafe descents as a positive feature.

True but this descent is technical but imo not as dangerous (if danger means risk of really serious injury) as say the Glandon descent tomorrow where the speeds are going to be that much higher.

No_Ta_Doctor

Runtothehills wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

Quintana for the stage. Sky's main concern is the weakness of their team in the face of concerted attacks from Movi/Saxo/Belkin. A 'gentleman's agreement' that Quintana can 'contest' the win with Froome in the event that both teams need to ride down a Saxo break suits Sky. It's also the best chance for Movistar to put a rider on the podium.

Could Quintana be the deciding factor without a gentleman's agreement. He's nearly 7 min behind Froome but less than 2.5 min behind Contador etc. Surely this means if Quintana attacks Froome doesn't have to cover it immediately but if Contador, Kreuziger and Mollema want a podium place they will have to go after him straight away, giving Froome a free ride.

Looks that way to me.

Unless Saxo are desperate enough to offer up Kreuziger's podium to him. As the second strongest climber in the tour, sitting in 5th, he looks to be the key player here.

Cumulonimbus

I like the millarmind tweet!

39mm (just over an inch and a half) of rain at Grenoble last night. Currently some drizzle/light rain. About 12C at the top.

Turfle

There are too many things tied up in too many other things for there to be a workable "teaming up".

If Quintana goes up the road, and Saxo, Belkin etc don't chase him, then what? Sky will eventually have an unnecessarily stressful chase.

disgruntledgoat

Tom Butcher wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

‏@peterstetina
all these guys bitching about the sarenne descent tomorrow; they aint Giro regulars. Batshit DH = standard in the Giro. #normal #goatpaths

CHECK. Giro is the GT for racers.

It's also the race where someone was killed on a descent two years ago.

Though to be fair, on a descent that was regarded as pretty safe, as descents go.

Oh sure. But under those circumstances it's probably not wise to hold up unsafe descents as a positive feature.

True but this descent is technical but imo not as dangerous (if danger means risk of really serious injury) as say the Glandon descent tomorrow where the speeds are going to be that much higher.

The glandon is, in places, twice as wide and if you go off the side you'll fall a maximum of 12ft before hitting a meadow. There are spots on the Sarenne where you could fall 40ft unarrested and places where you could fall onto or into the path of riders below. Also, the nature of the rock it's carved into means it is generally coated in gravel and larger stones too.

goonz

What time does it all kick off?

lostboysaint

goonz wrote:

What time does it all kick off?

Well we're 7 pages in so I assume about 2 hours ago

Dorset_Boy

Stage start is 12.20 CET.
Expected first ascent of the Alpe is around 16.00 CET.
http://www.letour.fr/le-tour/2013/us/stage-18.html

Macaloon

Turfle wrote:

There are too many things tied up in too many other things for there to be a workable "teaming up".

If Quintana goes up the road, and Saxo, Belkin etc don't chase him, then what? Sky will eventually have an unnecessarily stressful chase.

I was thinking more of Sky lining up 'insurance' with Movistar in the situation where Saxo/Garmin/Belkin blow the race to pieces (somehow), Froome's team melts, and they need allies to chase down Contador. If it all stays together, Froome has nothing to worry about. But that's not the Alberto way.

Runtothehills

Turfle wrote:

There are too many things tied up in too many other things for there to be a workable "teaming up".

If Quintana goes up the road, and Saxo, Belkin etc don't chase him, then what? Sky will eventually have an unnecessarily stressful chase.

Why will Sky have a stressful chase? The biggest time gap I would expect on the Alpe would be 2-3 min. Sky don't have to chase Quintana, they have to manage the gap to him to about this level. If Quintana gains 2-3 min it's no big deal to Froome, he's been stonger uphill than Quintana thus far and Quintana will have tired himself out by attacking.

However 2-3 min is a big deal to Contador so if Quintana attacks Sky can just say to Contador 'we're happy with him gaining 2-3 min and will maintain that gap, what gap are your team happy with? Less than that? ok your job to chase him then.'

Turfle

Runtothehills wrote:

Turfle wrote:

There are too many things tied up in too many other things for there to be a workable "teaming up".

If Quintana goes up the road, and Saxo, Belkin etc don't chase him, then what? Sky will eventually have an unnecessarily stressful chase.

Why will Sky have a stressful chase? The biggest time gap I would expect on the Alpe would be 2-3 min. Sky don't have to chase Quintana, they have to manage the gap to him to about this level. If Quintana gains 2-3 min it's no big deal to Froome, he's been stonger uphill than Quintana thus far and Quintana will have tired himself out by attacking.

However 2-3 min is a big deal to Contador so if Quintana attacks Sky can just say to Contador 'we're happy with him gaining 2-3 min and will maintain that gap, what gap are your team happy with? Less than that? ok your job to chase him then.'

How much leeway do you think they could give Quintana before accepting that nobody else is going to chase? Contador has said it's 1st or bust for him.

They'd be utterly crazy to give a free 2-3 minutes to the 2nd best climber in the race. If Quintana attacks they need to be regulating his gap immediately.

IMO.

goonz

Turfle wrote:

Runtothehills wrote:

Turfle wrote:

There are too many things tied up in too many other things for there to be a workable "teaming up".

If Quintana goes up the road, and Saxo, Belkin etc don't chase him, then what? Sky will eventually have an unnecessarily stressful chase.

Why will Sky have a stressful chase? The biggest time gap I would expect on the Alpe would be 2-3 min. Sky don't have to chase Quintana, they have to manage the gap to him to about this level. If Quintana gains 2-3 min it's no big deal to Froome, he's been stonger uphill than Quintana thus far and Quintana will have tired himself out by attacking.

However 2-3 min is a big deal to Contador so if Quintana attacks Sky can just say to Contador 'we're happy with him gaining 2-3 min and will maintain that gap, what gap are your team happy with? Less than that? ok your job to chase him then.'

How much leeway do you think they could give Quintana before accepting that nobody else is going to chase? Contador has said it's 1st or bust for him.

They'd be utterly crazy to give a free 2-3 minutes to the 2nd best climber in the race. If Quintana attacks they need to be regulating his gap immediately.

IMO.

Yep thats my thinking...

RichN95.

Turfle wrote:

How much leeway do you think they could give Quintana before accepting that nobody else is going to chase? Contador has said it's 1st or bust for him.

And Contador is not going to win if Quintana gets ahead of him, is he?

Tom Butcher

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

‏@peterstetina
all these guys bitching about the sarenne descent tomorrow; they aint Giro regulars. Batshit DH = standard in the Giro. #normal #goatpaths

CHECK. Giro is the GT for racers.

It's also the race where someone was killed on a descent two years ago.

Though to be fair, on a descent that was regarded as pretty safe, as descents go.

Oh sure. But under those circumstances it's probably not wise to hold up unsafe descents as a positive feature.

True but this descent is technical but imo not as dangerous (if danger means risk of really serious injury) as say the Glandon descent tomorrow where the speeds are going to be that much higher.

The glandon is, in places, twice as wide and if you go off the side you'll fall a maximum of 12ft before hitting a meadow. There are spots on the Sarenne where you could fall 40ft unarrested and places where you could fall onto or into the path of riders below. Also, the nature of the rock it's carved into means it is generally coated in gravel and larger stones too.

Im guessing they'e swept it pretty well and while here are some big drop offs at the top most of it isn't like that once you startndescending proper - we'll just have to disagree i think the main danger of serious injury is hitting something solid at high speed and the Glandon seems worse in that regard to me. Both have an element of risk though and hopefully nobody is seriously hurt on either.

Didn't you say you had been in a race down Villa Reculas ? Now that must have been scarey - from memory the drop offs on that are worse than the Sarenne.

Vino'sGhost

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

‏@peterstetina
all these guys bitching about the sarenne descent tomorrow; they aint Giro regulars. Batshit DH = standard in the Giro. #normal #goatpaths

CHECK. Giro is the GT for racers.

It's also the race where someone was killed on a descent two years ago.

Though to be fair, on a descent that was regarded as pretty safe, as descents go.

Oh sure. But under those circumstances it's probably not wise to hold up unsafe descents as a positive feature.

True but this descent is technical but imo not as dangerous (if danger means risk of really serious injury) as say the Glandon descent tomorrow where the speeds are going to be that much higher.

The glandon is, in places, twice as wide and if you go off the side you'll fall a maximum of 12ft before hitting a meadow. There are spots on the Sarenne where you could fall 40ft unarrested and places where you could fall onto or into the path of riders below. Also, the nature of the rock it's carved into means it is generally coated in gravel and larger stones too.

true its a tricky one but the bottom is real fast with some deceptively fast corners

No_Ta_Doctor

Turfle wrote:

Runtothehills wrote:

Turfle wrote:

There are too many things tied up in too many other things for there to be a workable "teaming up".

If Quintana goes up the road, and Saxo, Belkin etc don't chase him, then what? Sky will eventually have an unnecessarily stressful chase.

Why will Sky have a stressful chase? The biggest time gap I would expect on the Alpe would be 2-3 min. Sky don't have to chase Quintana, they have to manage the gap to him to about this level. If Quintana gains 2-3 min it's no big deal to Froome, he's been stonger uphill than Quintana thus far and Quintana will have tired himself out by attacking.

However 2-3 min is a big deal to Contador so if Quintana attacks Sky can just say to Contador 'we're happy with him gaining 2-3 min and will maintain that gap, what gap are your team happy with? Less than that? ok your job to chase him then.'

How much leeway do you think they could give Quintana before accepting that nobody else is going to chase? Contador has said it's 1st or bust for him.

They'd be utterly crazy to give a free 2-3 minutes to the 2nd best climber in the race. If Quintana attacks they need to be regulating his gap immediately.

IMO.

Regulating, but not necessarily closing. Exactly as they did on Ventoux.

Runtothehills

Turfle wrote:

Runtothehills wrote:

Turfle wrote:

There are too many things tied up in too many other things for there to be a workable "teaming up".

If Quintana goes up the road, and Saxo, Belkin etc don't chase him, then what? Sky will eventually have an unnecessarily stressful chase.

Why will Sky have a stressful chase? The biggest time gap I would expect on the Alpe would be 2-3 min. Sky don't have to chase Quintana, they have to manage the gap to him to about this level. If Quintana gains 2-3 min it's no big deal to Froome, he's been stonger uphill than Quintana thus far and Quintana will have tired himself out by attacking.

However 2-3 min is a big deal to Contador so if Quintana attacks Sky can just say to Contador 'we're happy with him gaining 2-3 min and will maintain that gap, what gap are your team happy with? Less than that? ok your job to chase him then.'

How much leeway do you think they could give Quintana before accepting that nobody else is going to chase? Contador has said it's 1st or bust for him.

They'd be utterly crazy to give a free 2-3 minutes to the 2nd best climber in the race. If Quintana attacks they need to be regulating his gap immediately.

IMO.

Surely they'd be more crazy to say to the four guys behind Froome 'if any of you attack the others shouldn't worry about it we'll cover it straight away' : that's going to tire team Sky out until something cracks.

Plus that's what I think they should say to Contador, they don't actually have to do it. As the risk is greater for Contador than Froome can you really see him allowing Quintana to gain ANY time, even 1 min would be too much from Contador's perspective while Froome could live with it (I agree 2-3 min may be too much for Sky but it's definately too much for Saxo-Tinkoff).

EDIT: what the guy above said as well

RideOnTime

shazzz wrote:

I've been dreading this stage for months. I just can't see beyond the vision of some simpleton running alongside the leaders in a hilarious outfit falling over and in to the leaders, motor bikes crashing all over the place and the Alpe so packed with fans that there is no room to attack.
My nerves are in shreds after the Ventoux stage!

Oh, calm down.
What are the chances of that?

Watch Slim Boy Fat's little video footage. Nice n calming;

http://vimeo.com/70139351

disgruntledgoat

Vino'sGhost wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

‏@peterstetina
all these guys bitching about the sarenne descent tomorrow; they aint Giro regulars. Batshit DH = standard in the Giro. #normal #goatpaths

CHECK. Giro is the GT for racers.

It's also the race where someone was killed on a descent two years ago.

Though to be fair, on a descent that was regarded as pretty safe, as descents go.

Oh sure. But under those circumstances it's probably not wise to hold up unsafe descents as a positive feature.

True but this descent is technical but imo not as dangerous (if danger means risk of really serious injury) as say the Glandon descent tomorrow where the speeds are going to be that much higher.

The glandon is, in places, twice as wide and if you go off the side you'll fall a maximum of 12ft before hitting a meadow. There are spots on the Sarenne where you could fall 40ft unarrested and places where you could fall onto or into the path of riders below. Also, the nature of the rock it's carved into means it is generally coated in gravel and larger stones too.

true its a tricky one but the bottom is real fast with some deceptively fast corners

The bottom of the Sarenne is great, once you're off the hairpins.

MrTapir

No tA Doctor wrote:

I'm just hoping the Dutch are doing their chair lifting when Sagan comes past, so he can hop off and wave his bike about.

Maybe when he next wins someone could quickly throw him a chair for him to lift aloft as the celebration.

jotko

Dont think Froome will win this one, I reckon Quintana. To be honest I hope Quintana wins, he has had a proper go on all the mountains thus far, deserves a big stage for his efforts and making the race. Contador has done bugger all really, I hope goes on a mad solo and blows up on the second climb, that would be good TV.

frenchfighter