the end for Wiggo ?

Richmond Racer

emadden wrote:

In many other circles having a CV/job history like the following, would leave the job candidate open to being called a "flake" or a "serial job-hopper". Granted the career of cyclist is short and riders should be mobile so as to ensure that their career chances and opportunities are maximised. When Wiggins left Garmin for Sky, I really felt he was a flake, particularly in light of the circumstances, but the fact that he has stayed with Sky for 3+seasons minimizes that (a bit)

2001 Linda McCartney Racing Team
2002–2003 Française des Jeux
2004–2005 Crédit Agricole
2006–2007 Cofidis
2008 Team High Road
2009 Garmin-Slipstream
2010– present Team Sky

Apart from the fact he never got to race for the Linda McCartney team, which folded very soon after the TDU in 01 - (for 2001 he raced in GB colours) you have to take his team history in context with his career priorities till post-Beijing - which was totally the track. Riding the road was mainly about endurance, and extra dosh - rather than specific road career goals.

Madoit/FDJ and the other French teams were fine with him riding on their teams to be competitive in the prologues and TTs, have him as pack fodder the rest of the time - and let him off for the time he needed to devote to the track comps etc. All part of the deal. As for leaving Cofidis - no explanation needed there. For High Road, he was doing lead-outs/chasing down breakaways for Cav until post-Giro (I think) when he left to prepare for Beijing - again, all part of the deal with High Road (I assume it was Cav who got him the gig)

TMR

I don't like Wiggins. I don't like his attitude. That said, he is an amazing talent on the bike and anyone who denies that is being grossly unfair. I think his problem is mental; I think he is mentally weak. You can see how that affects him in a variety of ways. His DS Team has changed this Season and you can see the impact losing his father figure has had on him. He needs to sort his head out and find a new way.

bigmat

Wasn't Wiggins sick at the Giro, then picked up a (hopefully non-career threatening) injury ruling him out of the Tour? Why is his career suddenly over? Sky will be a competitive environment for everyone over the next few years - Froome may have to look over his shoulder at Porte, then who knows what the younger guys might achieve. Wiggins may decide his prospects would be better at another team. May not get as much support, but then the Sky train will always ride to his strengths so no reason why him and one or two doms couldn't just hitch a ride?! He could even potentially get Yates / Sutton back on the backroom side...

Turfle

Richmond Racer wrote:

Turfle wrote:

This is all very dramatic.

My guess is next year he gets in the best shape possible for the Tour. Not very dramatic.

He may indeed. But unless Froome has a meltdown and has a disastrous Tour, Sky will back him over Wiggins next year. Froome is top Froomedog in the team now, and it seems to be this that Wiggins is having to face at the moment is as much as anything else, as he works out what he wants to do. So he may decide he can make all the sacrifices necessary to battle back to his 2012 condition - but Froome gets the nod ahead over him for the choicest GC race programme culminating in the '14 Tour leadership.

Indeed, but a year is a long old time in cycling these days. Porte exhausted from winning the Giro, Froome breaks a collarbone, suddenly Wiggins is number 1 again.

Unless his mind has gone, people are writing him off way too quickly.

roypsb

Crankbrother wrote:

I hope this is the end for Wiggins ...

FF thinks he should get more respect but I wholly disagree ... Achieved nothing other than school sports gold medals until Garmin gave him a chance and back-up ...

He then moved to,SKY for the money (no argument there) and eventually became the big fish in a small pond (although Cavendish challenged that success with results and then moved on) ... Turns out when other fish fancy a nibble Wiggins isn't up to the scrap ...

He received a premature honour on the wave of corporate olympic gladhanding schisterism ... I'd go on record that Jimmy Saville deserved his knighthood more ...

Wiggins=finished, mind and body ...

What a load of crap!

mike6

RoyPSB wrote:

Crankbrother wrote:

I hope this is the end for Wiggins ...

FF thinks he should get more respect but I wholly disagree ... Achieved nothing other than school sports gold medals until Garmin gave him a chance and back-up ...

He then moved to,SKY for the money (no argument there) and eventually became the big fish in a small pond (although Cavendish challenged that success with results and then moved on) ... Turns out when other fish fancy a nibble Wiggins isn't up to the scrap ...

He received a premature honour on the wave of corporate olympic gladhanding schisterism ... I'd go on record that Jimmy Saville deserved his knighthood more ...

Wiggins=finished, mind and body ...

What a load of crap!

+1.

Makes you wonder how much vitriol someone like this would have for Wiggins if he actually knew him personally, and disliked him for something tangible.
Scary.

Gazzetta67

[quote="The Mad Rapper"]I don't like Wiggins. I don't like his attitude. That said, he is an amazing talent on the bike and anyone who denies that is being grossly unfair. I think his problem is mental; I think he is mentally weak. You can see how that affects him in a variety of ways. His DS Team has changed this Season and you can see the impact losing his father figure has had on him. He needs to sort his head out and find a new way.[/quote]


Say's he with a picture of the "St George the doper of the Carolinas" least wiggins has not cheated his way to thousands of $$$$$$$$ prize money and stolen stage wins.

Crankbrother

Vitriol? Are you sure?

I don't rate the Olympics as the pinnacle of sport, especially in sports like cycling ... It's just bout the feel good factor, pretty much the same as school sports day when you were 7 ...

I think it's a joke that Wiggins is knighted for one relatively flukey (in terms of route and competition) win ... Regardless of how it turned out in the end Jimmy Saville still contributed more to Britain than someone winning a bike race ... People who do end-to-end for charity are contributing more than Wiggins ...

You choose to wank his ego, fine by me ... I choose not to, fine by Wiggins no doubt ...

squired

If I was Wiggins and the knee thing was just a story being put out by Team Sky (would you be doing 4 hours training each day if you had a knee injury?) I would be going to the National Championships looking to make a big statement and win. What better way to make a point?

mike6

Crankbrother wrote:

Vitriol? Are you sure?

I don't rate the Olympics as the pinnacle of sport, especially in sports like cycling ... It's just bout the feel good factor, pretty much the same as school sports day when you were 7 ...

I think it's a joke that Wiggins is knighted for one relatively flukey (in terms of route and competition) win ... Regardless of how it turned out in the end Jimmy Saville still contributed more to Britain than someone winning a bike race ... People who do end-to-end for charity are contributing more than Wiggins ...

You choose to rub his ego, fine by me ... I choose not to, fine by Wiggins no doubt ...

I was not questioning your view of his palmares, and I am not a fanboi. I was wondering why you were hoping the mans career was over?

There are plenty of riders, past and present, who I dislike as they are unrepentant cheats, but I would never pour the hatred on them, as you do with Wiggins, as I dont know them.

Crankbrother

^
To save reading about how great he/good old Blighty is ...

It's as dull as the letspickonarmstrongcoswethinkthatswhatthecoolkidsdo-ism ... There are hundreds of great cycling heroes/moments in a season, I'd rather that was what was in my magazines and on my internet ...

So yeah, if Wiggins goes it's one step towards sensibility ...

Gazzetta67

Crankbrother wrote:

^
To save reading about how great he/good old Blighty is ...

It's as dull as the letspickonarmstrongcoswethinkthatswhatthecoolkidsdo-ism ... There are hundreds of great cycling heroes/moments in a season, I'd rather that was what was in my magazines and on my internet ...

So yeah, if Wiggins goes it's one step towards sensibility ...

You seem like a right laugh - the life and soul of the party eh :roll: I think we get the Hate you have....as the saying goes it wasnt funny the 1st time...so move along.

mroli

People should read the article on Wiggins in the Cycling Anthology Vol 1 by William Fotheringham. A good read and an excellent insight into the man.

Bo Duke

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I don't like Wiggins. I don't like his attitude. That said, he is an amazing talent on the bike and anyone who denies that is being grossly unfair. I think his problem is mental; I think he is mentally weak. You can see how that affects him in a variety of ways. His DS Team has changed this Season and you can see the impact losing his father figure has had on him. He needs to sort his head out and find a new way.

A man who won Olympic gold medals at different games plus the TdF is mentally weak.

Hello....... that comment alone shows you have no idea the mental strength needed to WIN at this level.

Fark me....

Crankbrother

Gazzetta67 wrote:

Crankbrother wrote:

^
To save reading about how great he/good old Blighty is ...

It's as dull as the letspickonarmstrongcoswethinkthatswhatthecoolkidsdo-ism ... There are hundreds of great cycling heroes/moments in a season, I'd rather that was what was in my magazines and on my internet ...

So yeah, if Wiggins goes it's one step towards sensibility ...

You seem like a right laugh - the life and soul of the party eh :roll: I think we get the Hate you have....as the saying goes it wasnt funny the 1st time...so move along.

It's you and your 'ilk' that are bandying about the 'hate' ... My mind is being filled with a tedium I could do without, reading your post has just added to that ...

tailwindhome

Richmond Racer wrote:

emadden wrote:

In many other circles having a CV/job history like the following, would leave the job candidate open to being called a "flake" or a "serial job-hopper". Granted the career of cyclist is short and riders should be mobile so as to ensure that their career chances and opportunities are maximised. When Wiggins left Garmin for Sky, I really felt he was a flake, particularly in light of the circumstances, but the fact that he has stayed with Sky for 3+seasons minimizes that (a bit)

2001 Linda McCartney Racing Team
2002–2003 Française des Jeux
2004–2005 Crédit Agricole
2006–2007 Cofidis
2008 Team High Road
2009 Garmin-Slipstream
2010– present Team Sky

Apart from the fact he never got to race for the Linda McCartney team, which folded very soon after the TDU in 01 - (for 2001 he raced in GB colours) you have to take his team history in context with his career priorities till post-Beijing - which was totally the track. Riding the road was mainly about endurance, and extra dosh - rather than specific road career goals.

Madoit/FDJ and the other French teams were fine with him riding on their teams to be competitive in the prologues and TTs, have him as pack fodder the rest of the time - and let him off for the time he needed to devote to the track comps etc. All part of the deal. As for leaving Cofidis - no explanation needed there. For High Road, he was doing lead-outs/chasing down breakaways for Cav until post-Giro (I think) when he left to prepare for Beijing - again, all part of the deal with High Road (I assume it was Cav who got him the gig)

Unless each move represented career development/promotion and the required results were achieved.

joelsim

Just to cheer up the conversation, this is a shot my 5 year old took during the Olympics last year. On his mum's iPhone. Pretty good I think (or lucky).

mechanism

So much for using round wheels.

The important thing isn't whether Wiggins has/lacks the ability to win another grand tour, or whether you're a fan or not, but whether he will get another opportunity as clear team leader at Sky or elsewhere.

Gazzaputt

Crankbrother wrote:

Vitriol? Are you sure?

I don't rate the Olympics as the pinnacle of sport, especially in sports like cycling ... It's just bout the feel good factor, pretty much the same as school sports day when you were 7 ...

I think it's a joke that Wiggins is knighted for one relatively flukey (in terms of route and competition) win ... Regardless of how it turned out in the end Jimmy Saville still contributed more to Britain than someone winning a bike race ... People who do end-to-end for charity are contributing more than Wiggins ...

You choose to rub his ego, fine by me ... I choose not to, fine by Wiggins no doubt ...

Yea Jimmy Saville contributed to about 1300 undeserving people with his sick mind that's a real contribution to Britain. If you feel that is more deserving than winning an Olympic gold and the TDF I suggest your mindset may be in the same league as Saville's

Richmond Racer

Joelsim wrote:

Just to cheer up the conversation, this is a shot my 5 year old took during the Olympics last year. On his mum's iPhone. Pretty good I think (or lucky).

Child prodigy! Brings back the memories of that day...

TMR

Bo Duke wrote:

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I don't like Wiggins. I don't like his attitude. That said, he is an amazing talent on the bike and anyone who denies that is being grossly unfair. I think his problem is mental; I think he is mentally weak. You can see how that affects him in a variety of ways. His DS Team has changed this Season and you can see the impact losing his father figure has had on him. He needs to sort his head out and find a new way.

A man who won Olympic gold medals at different games plus the TdF is mentally weak.

You misunderstand. Or I didn't explain myself clearly enough. Or both. I don't mean mental strength as in the type needed for actual riding, I meant more the type of mental focus needed to stick to one's path and training. He is mentally weak in the sense he needs a Father figure to guide him, he has gone to pieces this year.

Hello....... that comment alone shows you have no idea the mental strength needed to WIN at this level.

Of course I do. I understand precisely what is required to ride at that level. I haven't got it, that's why I sit on my arse in Canary Wharf instead. Those that can, do. Those that can't work in the Financial Sector :P

TMR

Gazzetta67 wrote:

Say's he with a picture of the "St George the doper of the Carolinas" least wiggins has not cheated his way to thousands of $$$$$$$$ prize money and stolen stage wins.

STFU strap on. Wiggins is clean? Tell me a story Jackanory :P

ddraver

How has wiggins gone to peices this year? He has nt races enough to even have broken in half?

Out of the Giro sick/injured and a mechanical in Trentino. Pretty much impossible to draw anything from that...

This.is.a.non.story

Richmond Racer

The Mad Rapper wrote:

Gazzetta67 wrote:

Say's he with a picture of the "St George the doper of the Carolinas" least wiggins has not cheated his way to thousands of $$$$$$$$ prize money and stolen stage wins.

STFU strap on. Wiggins is clean? Tell me a story Jackanory :P

Shurrup Rapper :P We can only go on what we know, and like it or not Big George has admitted to being on the juice for donkeys years. You might question whether Wiggins is clean but there's no hard evidence to the contrary.

Moving on...

You're right when you say that Wiggins does need someone who can kick his arse when needed and also cajole him when that's needed. He has these crises every few years, and it's been Boardman and then Sutton who've helped short him out and help him get the most out of himself. Kerrison might be a damn fine coach but not as a solo coach for a very strong and chopsy character like Wiggins.

TMR

Richmond Racer wrote:

Shurrup Rapper :P We can only go on what we know, and like it or not Big George has admitted to being on the juice for donkeys years. You might question whether Wiggins is clean but there's no hard evidence to the contrary.

M'Lady, there was no hard evidence against George either until he confessed. I know you aren't that naive...and I don't mean that as an insult. I think fans should remain in a state of 'healthy scepticism'. I love Pro Cycling but I don't trust that riders are clean.

You're right when you say that Wiggins does need someone who can kick his ars* when needed and also cajole him when that's needed. He has these crises every few years, and it's been Boardman and then Sutton who've helped short him out and help him get the most out of himself. Kerrison might be a damn fine coach but not as a solo coach for a very strong and chopsy character like Wiggins.

Yes, that's all I'm trying to say. He has gone to pieces this year, the difference is night and day.

Richmond Racer

The Mad Rapper wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Shurrup Rapper :P We can only go on what we know, and like it or not Big George has admitted to being on the juice for donkeys years. You might question whether Wiggins is clean but there's no hard evidence to the contrary.

M'Lady, there was no hard evidence against George either until he confessed. I know you aren't that naive...and I don't mean that as an insult. I think fans should remain in a state of 'healthy scepticism'. I love Pro Cycling but I don't trust that riders are clean.

You're right when you say that Wiggins does need someone who can kick his ars* when needed and also cajole him when that's needed. He has these crises every few years, and it's been Boardman and then Sutton who've helped short him out and help him get the most out of himself. Kerrison might be a damn fine coach but not as a solo coach for a very strong and chopsy character like Wiggins.

Yes, that's all I'm trying to say. He has gone to pieces this year, the difference is night and day.

And if he stays at Sky, nothing will change. No one to motivate him. Uncle Shane's full-time on the track, and no Yates around. I think he's been isolated.

If he's going to get going again, I think a move to a new team could do it spurred on by a strong desire to stick two fingers up to Brailsford and Froome. Hence my admittedly crazy theory about Garmin.

TMR

Richmond Racer wrote:

And if he stays at Sky, nothing will change. No one to motivate him. Uncle Shane's full-time on the track, and no Yates around. I think he's been isolated.

So perhaps a change is in order if he is going to continue. The question is, where? I can't see him going back to Garmin. He needs a Team with strong GC ambitions, plenty of diesel Domestiques but no decent GC rider. I will suggest OPQS based on stuff I've read recently. I don't think Cav will be there next Season.

Jez mon

ddraver wrote:

How has wiggins gone to peices this year? He has nt races enough to even have broken in half?

Out of the Giro sick/injured and a mechanical in Trentino. Pretty much impossible to draw anything from that...

This.is.a.non.story

Meh. I think it's more a case of there being nothing of real value left for Wiggo to win this year, aside from a rainbow skinsuit. Then looking ahead to next year, well the only ever British tour winner might have to rely on a team mate breaking something to get a spot as team leader.

Of course, he could go to another team, but realistically, it would seem that he needs a fairly strong back up team to perform at a high level, where else but sky and BC provides that?

mike6

The Mad Rapper wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Shurrup Rapper :P We can only go on what we know, and like it or not Big George has admitted to being on the juice for donkeys years. You might question whether Wiggins is clean but there's no hard evidence to the contrary.

M'Lady, there was no hard evidence against George either until he confessed. I know you aren't that naive...and I don't mean that as an insult. I think fans should remain in a state of 'healthy scepticism'. I love Pro Cycling but I don't trust that riders are clean.

You're right when you say that Wiggins does need someone who can kick his ars* when needed and also cajole him when that's needed. He has these crises every few years, and it's been Boardman and then Sutton who've helped short him out and help him get the most out of himself. Kerrison might be a damn fine coach but not as a solo coach for a very strong and chopsy character like Wiggins.

Yes, that's all I'm trying to say. He has gone to pieces this year, the difference is night and day.

"Healthy scepticism"??? I believe the best of everyone, until evidence to the contrary. Wiggins has done nothing to even raise suspicion.

If I held the view that all pro cyclists are suspect I would not watch Pro cycling.

If illness and injury mean you are going to pieces then I have "gone to pieces" many times.

TMR

mike6 wrote:

"Healthy scepticism"??? I believe the best of everyone, until evidence to the contrary. Wiggins has done nothing to even raise suspicion.

I'm quite a bit more switched on to reality than that. Whatever works for you though.