Giro Stage 15 - **Spoiler**

tailwindhome

the Inner Ring ‏@inrng 17m
Avalanche danger means Sunday's #Giro stage could be shortened to 50km, roughly this route in the red box

the Inner Ring ‏@inrng 24m
Snow forecast for weekend in Alps. French government rules on #Giro route, no Galibier http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2013/0 ... u-galibier … (French) via @wielerman

afx237vi

Dunno, a 50 km blast down that descent and then straight up the Telegraphe could be interesting. A mountain climb minus the usual 4 hours of leg-sapping riding could prompt a few riders to chance their arm.

blazing_saddles

On the other hand, it could just be 50kms of crap.
No place for this in a GT.
Tomorrow could be worse. Only one option from Pinerelo is straight up the main road to nowhere.
The RCS forced RAI into committing to covering the whole stage. Eurosport cycling schedules up the Swanny again.
A Grand disaster.

thomthom

Please do your bit to make sure global warming hits Europe as well..

LeicesterLad

Could be a dud or could be a game changer - if it's the last and a rider like Nibali or Evans comes off badly i'd feel cheated as a GT GC rider. Not exactly what they signed up for was it?

I understand some racing has to go on, there's contracts to honour, fans to please, towns to promote. But 50km? Really?

knedlicky

afx237vi wrote:

Dunno, a 50 km blast down that descent and then straight up the Telegraphe could be interesting. A mountain climb minus the usual 4 hours of leg-sapping riding could prompt a few riders to chance their arm.

On this occasion I hope the full stage takes place - over the years I've so many times ploughed up the Galibier, I always want to see how the profis manage it.

But shortened stages like here shown in the red box, and welcomed by afx237vi, I'd love to see incorporated in GTs. They would bring a totally different character and tactic to some stages, especially if they were known from the beginning, not suddenly decided upon by the organisers because of weather (like I think happened maybe 5-10 years ago in the TdF when in the same area?)

Tom Butcher

Shame but something is better than nothing - agree it could be interesting especially with a finish straight after that short descent into valloire.

takethehighroad

knedlicky wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Dunno, a 50 km blast down that descent and then straight up the Telegraphe could be interesting. A mountain climb minus the usual 4 hours of leg-sapping riding could prompt a few riders to chance their arm.

On this occasion I hope the full stage takes place - over the years I've so many times ploughed up the Galibier, I always want to see how the profis manage it.

But shortened stages like here shown in the red box, and welcomed by afx237vi, I'd love to see incorporated in GTs. They would bring a totally different character and tactic to some stages, especially if they were known from the beginning, not suddenly decided upon by the organisers because of weather (like I think happened maybe 5-10 years ago in the TdF when in the same area?)

(like I think happened maybe 5-10 years ago in the TdF when in the same area?)

1996 one almost exactly the same roads, Riis won the stage to Sestriere.

shortened stages like here shown in the red box, and welcomed by afx237vi, I'd love to see incorporated in GTs

The Giro tried this in 2009 and it didn't work very well, it just meant everyone was fresher on the final climb so a number of them finished together. The better stage was the one that started at the top of one hill, went down to the valley and back up another (Alpe di Siusi I think it was called)

On this occasion I hope the full stage takes place

So do I to be fair, it was shaping up to be a really good finish, I was looking forward to it. At least that route in red looks good for Cav , taking out the TV halfway up the climb

milton50

Pretty rubbish news. I think we've all been looking forward to this weekend for a long time.

In practice a short stage up a not particularly steep climb just means everyone finishes roughly together. It's the long grinding attrition that produces time gaps. One potentially positive side effect, though, is that it means the GC riders can push harder and place more emphasis on today (assuming today is ridden in full).

alanp23

This was the stage I've been looking forward to since the route was announce. The route looked terrific, with the climb over Mont Cenis just setting things up for the Telegraphe/Galibier.

So gutted. I'd planned my Sunday round watching it.

The only positive things is that I think it looks like the route finishes on the other side of Valloire, so that means that the last km will be that nasty little kicker out of the town.

Might be exciting on the day but it wont affect the GC

blazing_saddles

Struck me last night, that the disruption doesn't end here.
Mont Cenis was not only their way into France, but their way out.
With the French government ruling meaning stage 16 will also lose
it's first 100kms.
What is left is 140kms of flat, with a small climb, 20kms from the end.

tailwindhome

afx237vi wrote:

Dunno, a 50 km blast down that descent and then straight up the Telegraphe could be interesting. A mountain climb minus the usual 4 hours of leg-sapping riding could prompt a few riders to chance their arm.

Must be some safety concerns starting 200 riders at the top of a descent and dropping the flag.

Maybe Red Bull could sponsor the stage.

blazing_saddles

Well, it seems the final decision has not yet been made, although the omens aren't good:

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 1m
Threat of avalanche on French side of Alps may shorten and diminish tomorrow's epic stage to summit of Galibier. Decision at noon.

What I find odd is how come Mont Cenis is also looking to be excluded, if the avalanche threat is limited to the top slopes of the Galibier. :?

frenchfighter

Its pretty annoying to cycling fans GLOBALLY

But I suppose the weather always wins. And if there is a chance that riders could die in an avalanche, it would be irresponsible to let them start.

Good point about the towns that are missing out. I hope they get their money back as they certainly wont get as much money as expected from the tourism.

As TTHR mentions, Giro 2009 had one of those short stages (as well as the best TT I've ever seen) and a very interesting parcours in general.
The stage in question was under 100km and flat then straight up the Blockhaus.

It was a good stage and they certainly didnt arrive together:
Stage 17 results
1 Franco Pellizotti (Ita) Liquigas 2.21.06 (35.294 km/h)
2 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone - Caffe Mokambo 0.42
3 Danilo Di Luca (Ita) LPR Brakes - Farnese Vini 0.43
4 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0.48
5 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas 0.57
6 Marzio Bruseghin (Ita) Lampre - N.G.C. 1.54
7 Sylvester Szmyd (Pol) Liquigas 1.55
8 Michael Rogers (Aus) Team Columbia - Highroad 1.59
9 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Cervelo Test Team
10 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana
11 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana
12 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) AG2R La Mondiale
13 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) S. Diquigiovanni-Androni Giocattoli 2.05
14 Francesco Masciarelli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone - Caffe Mokambo 2.09
15 Kanstantsin Siutsou (Blr) Team Columbia - Highroad 2.17
(Ps. note who is 15th and note how many of that list were dopers at one point!! )
Spoiler from that day:
viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12626360
Photos (be aware, there are race face and attacks aplenty. If you dont like that sort of thing do not look)
http://www.steephill.tv/2009/giro-d-ita ... /stage-17/
#Good old days

Alpe de Suissi like TTHR mentions was also short but coming on stage 5 it was too early for the GC candidates to fight.
Stage 5 results
1 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 3.15.23
2 Danilo Di Luca (Ita) LPR Brakes - Farnese Vini 0.02
3 Thomas Lövkvist (Swe) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.05
4 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas
5 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana 0.09
6 Christopher Horner (USA) Astana
7 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Cervelo Test Team
8 David Arroyo (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
9 Michael Rogers (Aus) Team Columbia - Highroad

tailwindhome

frenchfighter wrote:

if there is a chance that riders could die in an avalanche, it would be irresponsible to let them start.

Pah! Lightweights.

inkyfingers

Frenchie, the problem is that what makes the Telegraphe/Galibier hard is its length, they may not arrive together at the finish, but with the shorter climb and the downhill stretch the gaps are likely to be pretty small.

frenchfighter

You can rest assured that I would love to see them race the Galibier. Particularly as it has the most amazing scenery and the photos from there are incredible. Just adding a little colour and info on shorter stages.

tailwindhome

For those into motorbikes the weather could also be taking out the NW200. P1ssing with rain here.

RonB

Giro race director Mauro Vegni has a 1pm telephone appointment with relevant authorities in France to discuss viability of Galibier.

tailwindhome

What options are available to the organisers?

Can they close roads at short notice?

Could they (for example) scrap a mountain stage today and stick in a TT/Mountain TT instead?

iainf72

TailWindHome wrote:

What options are available to the organisers?

Can they close roads at short notice?

Could they (for example) scrap a mountain stage today and stick in a TT/Mountain TT instead?

They could cancel stage, shorten stage, re-route stage. Couldn't put a TT in.

knedlicky

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

knedlicky wrote:

(like I think happened maybe 5-10 years ago in the TdF when in the same area?)

1996 one almost exactly the same roads, Riis won the stage to Sestriere.

How time flies!

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

shortened stages like here shown in the red box, and welcomed by afx237vi, I'd love to see incorporated in GTs

The Giro tried this in 2009 and it didn't work very well, it just meant everyone was fresher on the final climb so a number of them finished together.

I remember that stage; the problem was that it only had a couple of bumps before the final climb, when it needed a stiffer and higher intermediate climb at about the halfway/two-thirds distance.
I still think the idea worth trying more frequently.

knedlicky

alanp23 wrote:

The only positive things is that I think it looks like the route finishes on the other side of Valloire, so that means that the last km will be that nasty little kicker out of the town.

French news yesterday was reporting the stage could finish in Valloire, Les Verneys (so after the 'little kicker') or even (if things really improve) at the Pantani memorial, which I think is at the hamlet of Granges, about halfway between Plan Lachat and the summit.

knedlicky

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Struck me last night, that the disruption doesn't end here.
Mont Cenis was not only their way into France, but their way out.
With the French government ruling meaning stage 16 will also lose
it's first 100kms.
What is left is 140kms of flat, with a small climb, 20kms from the end.

Di Luca keeps trying to win a Giro stage, and he had big plans for Milan-San Remo this year but then had to skip it because he had a cold.

So maybe that will be his chance to make up for one and achieve another in one go.

tailwindhome

iainf72 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

What options are available to the organisers?

Can they close roads at short notice?

Could they (for example) scrap a mountain stage today and stick in a TT/Mountain TT instead?

They could cancel stage, shorten stage, re-route stage. Couldn't put a TT in.

Presumably they have no shortage of co operation from the relevant authorities.

inkyfingers

TailWindHome wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

What options are available to the organisers?

Can they close roads at short notice?

Could they (for example) scrap a mountain stage today and stick in a TT/Mountain TT instead?

They could cancel stage, shorten stage, re-route stage. Couldn't put a TT in.

Presumably they have no shortage of co operation from the relevant authorities.

Wonder if the French authorities are as helpful to the Giro organisers as the Italian ones?

Dorset_Boy

TailWindHome wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

if there is a chance that riders could die in an avalanche, it would be irresponsible to let them start.

Pah! Lightweights.

The avalanche risk for the peleton will be comparatively small - they're passing through. Bigger risk is to those hanging around on the mountain all day, and to the publicity caravan.

The Telegraph isn't exactly an easy climb on it's own (well it didn't seem like it would be easy when I drove up it to go to Valloire the winter before last!

Hope they can ride the full stage or at least get a decent way up the Gallibier.

knedlicky

inkyfingers wrote:

Wonder if the French authorities are as helpful to the Giro organisers as the Italian ones?

Irrespective how helpful the French authorities may or may not be, there aren’t really any options roundabout where they are in France without going up high and encountering the same problems.

Apart from going all the way up and down the Maurienne valley to close to Albertville or Champery, there are only really two possibilities which could be incorporated – going past St. Michel-de-Maurienne to St. Jean-de-Maurienne and from there doing the short Montvernier climb loop (just NE of St. Jean) and/or doing the Col du Mollard loop (S of St. Jean), then back to St. Michel and on to the Telegraphe.

The Mollard is only 1640 m high so shouldn’t be as troubled with snow as the high passes. The TdF came down it into St. Jean last year (stage 11); this time the Giro could go up it and down the lower part of the Croix-de-Fer back to St. Jean.

Think I’ll give Acquarone a quick call about my idea.

blazing_saddles

One reason Sestrieres is out given as the descent, so I can't see them fancying the Mollard!

Rai waffling about tomorrow. Talking about the possibility of going through the Frejus tunnel and the possibility
of finishing at Valloire.

However, their tv shots of the Galibier in full blizzard mode and with the route barree danger avalanches signs out doesn't fill me with hope.

It's a pity they can't swap the rest day and do a bit of planning, but given they are kipping in France and tv being what it is..............................

Anyhow, it's doing the forum rounds but the Galibier and Mont Cenis have been ruled out by authorities, apparently official.

knedlicky

Blazing Saddles wrote:

One reason Sestrieres is out given as the descent, so I can't see them fancying the Mollard

True but the Mollard is about 1600 m, while the Sestriere descent starts off at over 2000 m so is bound to be more affected by the conditions.

Anyway, I mean to go up the Mollard then come down the lower part of the Croix de Fer - this has less hairpins than the Mollard descent and the steepest parts of its lower half are below 1200 m, so would be the better descent in bad weather.

frenchfighter

Update from RCS: Decision about Galibier to be made before 20 pm. French autorities working to remove the snow. http://t.co/X60VbcxAfL