Sky - internal strife - Froome vs Wiggins

LeicesterLad

Richmond Racer wrote:

If we want to look at comparative ROI, Wiggins has been worth incalculably more than Froome in terms of PR over the last 10 months to 'those nice people'. And that will remain so even if Froome wins the Tour. Wiggins sells to the general public, Froome will only sell to the niche cycling market.

Sorry to bring things down to such a base, commercial level...

Obviously, what i'm getting at is this isn't a decision made on wages, who's worth more, or who's British enough or even who the public like best. It should be the rider that has proved themself the most this year, which is Froome by a country mile. If the nice people that pay the wages can't see this for themselves then no wonder Froomes p*ssed. And if Froome does leave Sky, what are they going to do with Wiggins when he's dead wood in 3 years time and Porte moves to GreenEdge?

inkyfingers

LeicesterLad wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

If we want to look at comparative ROI, Wiggins has been worth incalculably more than Froome in terms of PR over the last 10 months to 'those nice people'. And that will remain so even if Froome wins the Tour. Wiggins sells to the general public, Froome will only sell to the niche cycling market.

Sorry to bring things down to such a base, commercial level...

Obviously, what i'm getting at is this isn't a decision made on wages, who's worth more, or who's British enough or even who the public like best. It should be the rider that has proved themself the most this year, which is Froome by a country mile. If the nice people that pay the wages can't see this for themselves then no wonder Froomes p*ssed. And if Froome does leave Sky, what are they going to do with Wiggins when he's dead wood in 3 years time and Porte moves to GreenEdge?

I don't think you can value a GT contenders value before the first GT has even started. Races like Romandie and Crit Intl are nice, but if Wiggins wins the Giro and Froome flunks the Tour then Wiggins will be the success story of the year.

Wiggins race programme looked to me like it was designed with a slightly different aim in mind to last year's, seeing as they haven't entered him into a single race with a TT this year. It almost seems like they wanted him to fly a little more under the radar this year, which he was till he opened his gob

Richmond Racer

LeicesterLad wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

If we want to look at comparative ROI, Wiggins has been worth incalculably more than Froome in terms of PR over the last 10 months to 'those nice people'. And that will remain so even if Froome wins the Tour. Wiggins sells to the general public, Froome will only sell to the niche cycling market.

Sorry to bring things down to such a base, commercial level...

Obviously, what i'm getting at is this isn't a decision made on wages, who's worth more, or who's British enough or even who the public like best. It should be the rider that has proved themself the most this year, which is Froome by a country mile. If the nice people that pay the wages can't see this for themselves then no wonder Froomes p*ssed. And if Froome does leave Sky, what are they going to do with Wiggins when he's dead wood in 3 years time and Porte moves to GreenEdge?

As I've said, I think it will be Froome and I think he does deserve the shot. But Sky clearly want to keep the final decision to the last moment to keep both of the buggers trying to out-perform each other, keep rival teams guessing etc. Whether this proves to be productive or counter-productive, we'll see.

Brad needs to win the Giro.

Not sure I understand your question 'what are they going to do with Wiggins when he's dead wood'? Um...he'll retire.
I assume you mean what are they going to do for GC riders?

Tom Butcher

There are so many different interpretations of this war of words it's pretty much impossible to know which is the truth. Whatever the rights and wrongs I hope they are both there at the start and both aiming to go for the win.

It would be a gamble for Sky but think of the publicity if it turns into a showdown between the two - and after all Sky are in it for publicity. One often made criticism of Sky/Brailsford it's that they are too controlled and take away the romance of the sport - individuality suppressed for the team - people may grudgingly respect the fact they win but wish they didn't. Letting both of their big guns go for the win - at the risk of neither winning - has to be one way of answering that.

LeicesterLad

inkyfingers wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

If we want to look at comparative ROI, Wiggins has been worth incalculably more than Froome in terms of PR over the last 10 months to 'those nice people'. And that will remain so even if Froome wins the Tour. Wiggins sells to the general public, Froome will only sell to the niche cycling market.

Sorry to bring things down to such a base, commercial level...

Obviously, what i'm getting at is this isn't a decision made on wages, who's worth more, or who's British enough or even who the public like best. It should be the rider that has proved themself the most this year, which is Froome by a country mile. If the nice people that pay the wages can't see this for themselves then no wonder Froomes p*ssed. And if Froome does leave Sky, what are they going to do with Wiggins when he's dead wood in 3 years time and Porte moves to GreenEdge?

I don't think you can value a GT contenders value before the first GT has even started. Races like Romandie and Crit Intl are nice, but if Wiggins wins the Giro and Froome flunks the Tour then Wiggins will be the success story of the year.Wiggins race programme looked to me like it was designed with a slightly different aim in mind to last year's, seeing as they haven't entered him into a single race with a TT this year. It almost seems like they wanted him to fly a little more under the radar this year, which he was till he opened his gob

This is true but it works both ways. Wiggins might have won the Tour and everything else last year but last year was last year. Phil Gil was great in 2011, he was dogspunk in 2012. Such is life. Can't help feeling Brad is a little too arrogant sometime (and i do like him, in fact i've warmed to Sky in general a fair bit this season.) But he should remember that he won a TT heavy tour with several favourites missing (And yes, this isn't a discredit as it sounds, he still won the Tour, it's a great achievment, he can only race the riders and course in front of him) so it doesn't (or shouldnt) make him untouchable and allow him to start calling the shots, espcially to the point where he disprespectfully refers to Joaquim Rodriguez as 'Can't remeber his name, the little spanish guy' like he did earlier this year. Think he needs to calm it down just a tad and he should have waited until after the Giro before opening his mouth.

RR - yeah I mean GC guys, don't see the Colombians sticking around for ever and i'm still waiting for Pete Kennaugh to do something less ordinary.

Tom Butcher

LeicesterLad wrote:

It should be the rider that has proved themself the most this year, which is Froome by a country mile.

Yes but as someone else said - Sky know the numbers we don't. Maybe they just aren't convinced Froome has the engine that Wiggins does.

And if they have to keep one or the other how do they handle the big British cycling star riding for another team - surely that doesn't fit with their plan. Losing Froome might be that bit easier for the sponsors.

mroli

LeicesterLad wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

How's Froome going to lead the team when he can't even control his woman?

Wondered when that would crop up!

Be careful now, the PC police will be coming for you...

Bo**ocks. This isn't not being PC, this is misogyny.

LeicesterLad

Tom Butcher wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

It should be the rider that has proved themself the most this year, which is Froome by a country mile.

Yes but as someone else said - Sky know the numbers we don't. Maybe they just aren't convinced Froome has the engine that Wiggins does.

And if they have to keep one or the other how do they handle the big British cycling star riding for another team - surely that doesn't fit with their plan. Losing Froome might be that bit easier for the sponsors.

Very true, but I think that would bite them in the A*se in the long run.

Squaggles

Incredible


New Boards of Canada album in june !

chrisday

Richmond Racer wrote:

As I've said, I think it will be Froome and I think he does deserve the shot. But Sky clearly want to keep the final decision to the last moment to keep both of the buggers trying to out-perform each other, keep rival teams guessing etc. Whether this proves to be productive or counter-productive, we'll see.

^ This. This. A million times this.

Can we close the thread now?

ocdupalais

All this gubbins between BW and CF has as much to do with journos sh!t stirring than either of those two seeking to wind the other up, I'd say. Why would Wiggins risk looking like more of a plonker by trying to position himself as undisputed team leader for the Tour when he hasn't even passed his stated aim for the season yet? Both riders have said the rider with the best form will lead. Will Froome still insist on leading if he blows a gasket (physical and/or mental) pre-Tour?

Things will be a lot clearer post Dauphiné... if Wiggins crushes the Giro and Fenton c0cks up the Dauphiné (or vice versa), or what if they both falter pre-Tour?
My feeling right now is that Wiggo is in a very strong and confident position going into the Giro - despite his mishap at Trentino, he oozed power, I thought (plus, we'll get to see if his specific training for explosive mountain attacks from Contador-Lite (Nibali), Scarponi, etc, counts for anything) - and should he win, he can sit back and cast a powerful shadow over every conversation that discusses predictions for the Tour. And if he doesn't win - due to lack of power/form - he'll have a further 5 weeks to tweak whatever he was missing at the Giro (after all, he won't be far off, surely?), before making a declaration demanding joint/sole leadership or faithful lieutenant role.

Power, weight, state of mind: those are what will decide Team Sky leadership on 29th June...

Richmond Racer

Squaggles wrote:

Incredible


New Boards of Canada album in june !

Any good? Who sings lead vocals - Wiggins or Fr....ok, no...

No_Ta_Doctor

Sky have always said publicly that it will be decided by who has the form, when they get near the race. They'll go by the numbers. Which is just as it should be.

I'd put my money on that being Froome. If Wiggins blows everyone away in the Giro and demonstrates afterwards that he can aintain that form then it's up for grabs. Which is just as it should be.

All this stuff about who "deserves" the chance is just guff. The chance goes to the rider Sky think is most capable of winning. Which is just as it should be.

No_Ta_Doctor

I hate New Boards of Canada, and their new album is shite.*











*Have no idea who they are or what the album sounds like

Mad_Malx

No tA Doctor wrote:

All this stuff about who "deserves" the chance is just guff. The chance goes to the rider Sky think is most capable of winning. Which is just as it should be.

Absolutely.

Meanwhile, I hear there is some cycling going on in Dunkirk, which has got to be more interesting than this.

danlikesbikes

Mad_Malx wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

All this stuff about who "deserves" the chance is just guff. The chance goes to the rider Sky think is most capable of winning. Which is just as it should be.

Absolutely.

Meanwhile, I hear there is some cycling going on in Dunkirk, which has got to be more interesting than this.

Quite true, as they say its yesterday's news now.

feltkuota

No tA Doctor wrote:

.

All this stuff about who "deserves" the chance is just guff. The chance goes to the rider Sky think is most capable of winning. Which is just as it should be.

Folks didn't like that answer on page 12 so good luck with it on page 13..I agree though.

blazing_saddles

Mad_Malx wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

All this stuff about who "deserves" the chance is just guff. The chance goes to the rider Sky think is most capable of winning. Which is just as it should be.

Absolutely.

Meanwhile, I hear there is some cycling going on in Dunkirk, which has got to be more interesting than this.

Frankfurt's been going on since early lunchtime.
Moser, Spilak and Pozzovivo off the front and running.
The whole Sky thing being a non-existent niche market, outside the UK.
(well, until the Giro starts, at least)

tailwindhome

Sky cyberengineers must be working on a way of combining the two before the tour.

Friggins for the TDF is my guess.

tailwindhome

Friggins...hehe...I crack myself up.

Macaloon

No tA Doctor wrote:

I hate New Boards of Canada, and their new album is shite.*

Happy cycling http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoxqd6M_xiI

Richmond Racer

Soz. I know it keeps this thread going but this is actually pretty funny....

Now G's given his thoughts on the subject when quizzed on it at an Etape Cymru promotional gig today
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ma ... me-rivalry

This quote amuses: '"I quite like all the hype," he said. "I think it is good and gets cycling out there. It is another story, as long as it doesn't affect the riders and I don't think it is.

"I was with Froomey a couple of days ago and he was just joking about it, it gets people talking and gets people interested in it.


Next up: TeamSkyChef on his thoughts on who should lead. Plus a smoothie recipe.

tailwindhome

The SKY PR machine clearly believes that if everyone is talking about Friggins then they ignore the doping.





Friggins......its going to be a thing #SummerofFriggins.

goonz

Please tell me this thread will die soon, how much more is there to talk about?

LeicesterLad

TailWindHome wrote:

The SKY PR machine clearly believes that if everyone is talking about Friggins then they ignore the doping.





Friggins......its going to be a thing #SummerofFriggins.

I used a #friggins hashtag on twitter 3 days ago so i'm claiming it as my own. :P

danlikesbikes

Richmond Racer wrote:

Soz. I know it keeps this thread going but this is actually pretty funny....

Now G's given his thoughts on the subject when quizzed on it at an Etape Cymru promotional gig today
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ma ... me-rivalry

This quote amuses: '"I quite like all the hype," he said. "I think it is good and gets cycling out there. It is another story, as long as it doesn't affect the riders and I don't think it is.

"I was with Froomey a couple of days ago and he was just joking about it, it gets people talking and gets people interested in it.


Next up: TeamSkyChef on his thoughts on who should lead. Plus a smoothie recipe.

Think they are so happy with their new uniforms that they will do another washing clothes podcast!

tailwindhome

LeicesterLad wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

The SKY PR machine clearly believes that if everyone is talking about Friggins then they ignore the doping.





Friggins......its going to be a thing #SummerofFriggins.

I used a #friggins hashtag on twitter 3 days ago so i'm claiming it as my own. :P

Didn't see it.

Even before I thought of it, it was already out there.....jeez I'm good

#SummerofFriggins



On other business I've deactivated the twitter account. I realised that mainly I was following people who irritated me, just so I could be irritated by them. That doesn't seem healthy....

Just need to stay off it for 30 days......

hammerite

Everyone saying that Froome will move on as Wiggo is Sky's poster boy.... are you forgetting that Wiggo will be 34 next season, Froome will be 28. If I wanted longer term success I'd be sticking with Froome. I'm not saying Wiggo is past it, yet, but he won't have much longer left at the very top level.

greeny12

TailWindHome wrote:

I realised that mainly I was following people who irritated me, just so I could be irritated by them.

You just perfectly summed up Twitter in less than 140 characters - you should tweet that

Oh, sorry, you can't

blazing_saddles

Awesome, no race radios finish to Frankfurt.......
.........not that's it's got any place here.