Sky - internal strife - Froome vs Wiggins

thamacdaddy

Might help avoid obvious sexist like remarks if people don't label michellecound "crazy girlfriend" "she should just shut up" etc. I mostly agree that it doesn't seem wise but people can do as they please.

If you actually study the words wiggins used (which is more than he does as he just opens his mouth) then he didn't say too much wrong really. He probably could be a bit more humble but he has probably earnt the right not to be.

Interesting that millar and a few on here (as well as michelle cound herself) have all suggested Froome will leave sky and that would be their loss. I think it's interesting to consider what the set up there does for him and that perhaps that won't be the best move he could make for himself. I know he looks great on the mountains and I am pretty sure everyone thinks he doesn't need a team but look at people like Andy Schleck. Surely a team dedicated to helping him through whatever it is that is affecting him would have had him back at the front of the peloton by now (cue drug suggestions).
I can't see where Froome would really go that might not isolate him further, saxo perhaps if contador wasn't there? Team up with Nibbles at Astana? Garmin???? At least the staff and riders like him at Sky, Wiggins I think is more prickly. Given Brailsford seems similar and froome is displaying insecurity about his role I am not 100% sure he has the mental game to work through this. I thought it was quite telling how Brailsford handled Pendleton towards the end, he seems to have little time for the more emotional side of the sport. This is why I think wiggins fits at sky.

Guess we will find out sooner of later.

goonz

TailWindHome wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

goonz wrote:

r0bh wrote:

Cogidubnus wrote:

Ms Froome on twitter again this morning

She would do everyone a favour if she were to STFU.

I dont follow her, but form this thread alone I am temped. What is her twatter name?

@michellecound

The article in today's Times is suggests that the Girlfriend has some sort of official role is his management team. Anyone know if this is true?

Sounds like she owns Froome

Macaloon

After cogitating as hard as I could for as much as 5 minutes I've concluded that much as I love Wiggins, he's out of order here. Froome sacrificed a Vuelta win to support him. He followed-up by burying himself in service of Wiggins' sedan chair Tour win. (Think Wiggo would have won so comfortably with Porte or Rogers as his wing man? Granted Froome went a little off piste twice: meaningless in context).

The classy thing for Bradley to do is acknowledge Froome's past contributions and confirm that he'll do his utmost to support him while at the same time preparing to be a viable plan B if Froome crashes.

Seeming to undermine a teammate who did so much to help him achieve the pinnacle of the sport diminishes a great champion. And it gets worse if Wiggins actually meant what he said about fellow Olympians trying to cash in on their medals, while they subsist on lottery funding and he survives on his 7 figure contract. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Richmond Racer

Personally, I'd like Wiggins to just concentrate on trying to win the Giro.

Though I admire Froome's abilities, I'm not a huge fan - and his GF's mouth is responsible for that to a large degree, I admit. Give me Porte any day. But to be fair Froome has delivered in every race this season. And in the process he's beaten Bertie, J-Rod and Valverde - decent psychological boost.

In my heart of hearts what I'd love to see happen at the Tour is that something happens to put Froome in some kind of difficulty and Wiggins rather ostentatiously rescues Froome's Tour bid. Dont ask me how though.

Next year, Froome will be somewhere else. I seriously dont think the two of them can last another season on the same team. If its him v Wiggins, it'll be Froome who leaves. Wiggins is the poster boy for British Cycling AND he's box office in a way that Froome will never be. But the GF's such a loose cannon and that's the deciding factor. At least Cath Wiggins left Twitter...

As for where Froome ends up...BMC (will put Tejay's nose out of joint, but tough) or Cannondale to replace a Basso who really needs to retire.

Unltimately he needs Sky more than they need him. Between Wiggins and Porte - and possibly a fast-developing Henao for the future - they're covered on the GT front for the next couple of years.

Just my twopennoth

lloyd_bower

Tom Butcher wrote:

Why ? If Wiggins can prove himself stronger why ride for Froome ? What Wiggins is saying makes sense - support the stronger rider - now whether he really intends to accept that if it isn't him is another matter - but if he wins the Giro in style and holds form he probably has a better claim to be team leader than Froome.

As for who handles pressure better - I can't see any evidence of either having a suspect temperament. Wiggins may appear to need careful handling but in his career he's generally delivered what he's aimed at.

Wiggins saying support the strongest rider is a change in tune from the 'Vuelta in '11, when Sky's support of him at the expense of the then tour leader cost them and Froome GB's first GT.

iainf72

Richmond Racer wrote:

. But the GF's such a loose cannon and that's the deciding factor. At least Cath Wiggins left Twitter...

What has michelle done that's got everyone pants in a knot?

Richmond Racer

lloyd bower wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Why ? If Wiggins can prove himself stronger why ride for Froome ? What Wiggins is saying makes sense - support the stronger rider - now whether he really intends to accept that if it isn't him is another matter - but if he wins the Giro in style and holds form he probably has a better claim to be team leader than Froome.

As for who handles pressure better - I can't see any evidence of either having a suspect temperament. Wiggins may appear to need careful handling but in his career he's generally delivered what he's aimed at.

Wiggins saying support the strongest rider is a change in tune from the 'Vuelta in '11, when Sky's support of him at the expense of the then tour leader cost them and Froome GB's first GT.

Well, to be fair to Wiggins that was Sky management's call. After Froome took the red jersey at the TT, Shane Sutton made the call that they stick with Wiggins as the leader, based on the unknown quantity that was Froome's ability to keep his form through the entire 3 weeks. They then made Froome joint leader after the Angliru (?) but he wasnt able to make up the gap to Cobo (too late, Cobo's home roads etc).

paul2718

Chris Froome wrote:

I have been reassured by the management at Team Sky that I have their full backing and at no time has the leadership of the Tour team been in question.

Completely consistent with Wiggins view...

Paul

smithy21

Froome is reaping what he sowed last year. If he had drained the tanks in service of an undisputed team leader none of this would be happening now. Instead he held enough back to be able to stay in the lead group and make a couple of unneccessary attacks to prove a point. If he had done what he was supposed to do Wiggins would have unquestionably owed him one.

Anyway all of this is just nonsense. They both have races to ride before we even get to July. I'd also expect a vastly improved Contador (from recent races) to have something to say about who wins the tour.

Daz555

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

. But the GF's such a loose cannon and that's the deciding factor. At least Cath Wiggins left Twitter...

What has michelle done that's got everyone pants in a knot?

https://twitter.com/michellecound

iainf72

Yes, I follow her, just don't see what everyone gets all worked up about

Pross

The thread is too long to read in full so don't know if anyone else has suggested this. Could Sky just have Wiggins making the comments to muddy the water a little bit in some attempt at confusing the opposition? Either way all he has said is he would like to go for the win himself but he will leave it up to the team to decide who the leader is and will ride as instructed. I don't see the problem there myself. It makes sense to keep both of them up there on GC as long as possible in any case to provide a contingency - it worked well for them last season.

andyrr

One take on Wiggins' changed attitude re ONLY targetting the Giro and not the Tour is that he may have thought that it just was not feasible to do 1 then the other with high expectations of doing well in the 2nd (TdF). Now that he has had time to consider this, discuss training etc maybe he now feels that he could also do well at the Tour ? I'd seen a comment from someone in the Sky team (trainer ?) saying that Wiggins would peak for the Giro, then drop down then build up again, he wouldn't be trying to hold form all the way through the Giro to the end of the Tour. Wiggins said in the TV interview that he wanted to arrive at the tour with form that would be sufficiently good to allow him to be at the head of the race - that could even be read as wanting to be at the Tour in such shape that he is able to assist Froome where required, not necessarily be ousting him as head of team.
I don't think that Wiggins' form to now has been so good that he is looking like a shoe-in for the Giro in the same was as he was for the TdF last year - be interesting to see what happens if, say, he is not right at the head of the GC towards the latter stages of that race : would he then treat the rest of the race as training or even pull out to then hone his TdF prep ?!
If Wiggins and Froome are really such closely matched GT riders, and this year Wiggins has ridden a hard Giro then Froome should naturally become leader on the road and Wiggins should lag behind but there are many scenarios that could play out - Froome loses a minute due to a puncture in the prologue, Wiggins gets in an early break and gains a decent handful of seconds ...

Macaloon

smithy21 wrote:

Froome is reaping what he sowed last year. If he had drained the tanks in service of an undisputed team leader none of this would be happening now. Instead he held enough back to be able to stay in the lead group and make a couple of unneccessary attacks to prove a point. If he had done what he was supposed to do Wiggins would have unquestionably owed him one.

Anyway all of this is just nonsense. They both have races to ride before we even get to July. I'd also expect a vastly improved Contador (from recent races) to have something to say about who wins the tour.

What more does a guy have to do to qualify as a loyal tank-drainer? http://youtu.be/1yLWjeaZN3U?t=22m (Watch for 10 mins) Froome gets righteous stick for the mindless 'attack' but precious few plaudits for dragging Wiggins back several times. Bad show.

LeicesterLad

Macaloon wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Froome is reaping what he sowed last year. If he had drained the tanks in service of an undisputed team leader none of this would be happening now. Instead he held enough back to be able to stay in the lead group and make a couple of unneccessary attacks to prove a point. If he had done what he was supposed to do Wiggins would have unquestionably owed him one.

Anyway all of this is just nonsense. They both have races to ride before we even get to July. I'd also expect a vastly improved Contador (from recent races) to have something to say about who wins the tour.

What more does a guy have to do to qualify as a loyal tank-drainer? http://youtu.be/1yLWjeaZN3U?t=22m (Watch for 10 mins) Froome gets righteous stick for the mindless 'attack' but precious few plaudits for dragging Wiggins back several times. Bad show.

+1

Think the long and short of it is that Wiggins is being a bit of a c*ck but he clearly has more fans than Froome. Froome's misses is a gobby sod but I think i'd be gobbing off if the same was happening to me. (IE. Ive worked tirelessly for 2 years, I've stamped my authority on every race this year consistently beating the best and an undercooked Wiggins who said he didn't want to defend his Tour title and has shown very little in the way of winning form wants to start playing mind-games and putting claim to something that isn't his)

inkyfingers

Why do people keep on harping back to the 2011 Vuelta?

Yes, Froome rode well and possibly could have won, but only in hindsight was Sky's decision to support Wiggins the wrong one. Let's not forget that prior to that Vuelta, nobody would seriously have considered Froome to a possible GT winner, whereas Wiggins had already finished in the top 4 at the Tour and won the Dauphine, Sky's decision was quite logical at the time.

Macaloon

Some behind the scenes footage of Imlach, Boardman & Boulting rehearsing their montage for a possible Soul Train derailment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6h1BV7FZqs

inkyfingers

Forgot to say in my previous post...

None of the protagonists of this are coming out of this well, but as fans it's at least given us something more lighthearted than Puerto to discuss.

powerbookboy

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

. But the GF's such a loose cannon and that's the deciding factor. At least Cath Wiggins left Twitter...

What has michelle done that's got everyone pants in a knot?

Speak her mind. Apparently some people think she shouldn't be allowed to have one. It's all rather oppressive...

smithy21

Macaloon wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Froome is reaping what he sowed last year. If he had drained the tanks in service of an undisputed team leader none of this would be happening now. Instead he held enough back to be able to stay in the lead group and make a couple of unneccessary attacks to prove a point. If he had done what he was supposed to do Wiggins would have unquestionably owed him one.

Anyway all of this is just nonsense. They both have races to ride before we even get to July. I'd also expect a vastly improved Contador (from recent races) to have something to say about who wins the tour.

What more does a guy have to do to qualify as a loyal tank-drainer? http://youtu.be/1yLWjeaZN3U?t=22m (Watch for 10 mins) Froome gets righteous stick for the mindless 'attack' but precious few plaudits for dragging Wiggins back several times. Bad show.

That was his job. All I am saying is if he had done that rather than heading off up the road when he did Wiggins would have had less of a position this year to muddy the waters.

Another part of my post did say that all of this is nonsense.

powerbookboy

Macaloon wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Froome is reaping what he sowed last year. If he had drained the tanks in service of an undisputed team leader none of this would be happening now. Instead he held enough back to be able to stay in the lead group and make a couple of unneccessary attacks to prove a point. If he had done what he was supposed to do Wiggins would have unquestionably owed him one.

Anyway all of this is just nonsense. They both have races to ride before we even get to July. I'd also expect a vastly improved Contador (from recent races) to have something to say about who wins the tour.

What more does a guy have to do to qualify as a loyal tank-drainer? http://youtu.be/1yLWjeaZN3U?t=22m (Watch for 10 mins) Froome gets righteous stick for the mindless 'attack' but precious few plaudits for dragging Wiggins back several times. Bad show.

Nuts innit? I feel like I watched a different race to a large number of people...

mididoctors

Pross wrote:

The thread is too long to read in full so don't know if anyone else has suggested this. Could Sky just have Wiggins making the comments to muddy the water a little bit in some attempt at confusing the opposition? Either way all he has said is he would like to go for the win himself but he will leave it up to the team to decide who the leader is and will ride as instructed. I don't see the problem there myself. It makes sense to keep both of them up there on GC as long as possible in any case to provide a contingency - it worked well for them last season.

+1

I think the whole thing is a load of hot air

blazing_saddles

smithy21 wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Froome is reaping what he sowed last year. If he had drained the tanks in service of an undisputed team leader none of this would be happening now. Instead he held enough back to be able to stay in the lead group and make a couple of unneccessary attacks to prove a point. If he had done what he was supposed to do Wiggins would have unquestionably owed him one.

Anyway all of this is just nonsense. They both have races to ride before we even get to July. I'd also expect a vastly improved Contador (from recent races) to have something to say about who wins the tour.

What more does a guy have to do to qualify as a loyal tank-drainer? http://youtu.be/1yLWjeaZN3U?t=22m (Watch for 10 mins) Froome gets righteous stick for the mindless 'attack' but precious few plaudits for dragging Wiggins back several times. Bad show.

That was his job. All I am saying is if he had done that rather than heading off up the road when he did Wiggins would have had less of a position this year to muddy the waters.

Another part of my post did say that all of this is nonsense.

Wiggins has headed up the road 2 months before the race starts!

powerbookboy

smithy21 wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Froome is reaping what he sowed last year. If he had drained the tanks in service of an undisputed team leader none of this would be happening now. Instead he held enough back to be able to stay in the lead group and make a couple of unneccessary attacks to prove a point. If he had done what he was supposed to do Wiggins would have unquestionably owed him one.

Anyway all of this is just nonsense. They both have races to ride before we even get to July. I'd also expect a vastly improved Contador (from recent races) to have something to say about who wins the tour.

What more does a guy have to do to qualify as a loyal tank-drainer? http://youtu.be/1yLWjeaZN3U?t=22m (Watch for 10 mins) Froome gets righteous stick for the mindless 'attack' but precious few plaudits for dragging Wiggins back several times. Bad show.

That was his job. All I am saying is if he had done that rather than heading off up the road when he did Wiggins would have had less of a position this year to muddy the waters.

Another part of my post did say that all of this is nonsense.

Rubbish*. Everyone would be asking why the hell does this jumped up Kenyan think he should be team leader? He's shown nothing to merit it, he's just a roadsweeper. Froome did his job last year, but also showed everyone he's not a going to sit around for another few years acting as bag man. He's forced this conversation out into the open. Good on him.

He deserves his chance on a course better suited to him, like last year's Tour and this years Giro are better suited to Wiggins.

* I'm going to shut up now because this is starting to work me up.

tailwindhome

How's Froome going to lead the team when he can't even control his woman?

LeicesterLad

TailWindHome wrote:

How's Froome going to lead the team when he can't even control his woman?

Wondered when that would crop up!

Be careful now, the PC police will be coming for you...

feltkuota

powerbookboy wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Froome is reaping what he sowed last year. If he had drained the tanks in service of an undisputed team leader none of this would be happening now. Instead he held enough back to be able to stay in the lead group and make a couple of unneccessary attacks to prove a point. If he had done what he was supposed to do Wiggins would have unquestionably owed him one.

Anyway all of this is just nonsense. They both have races to ride before we even get to July. I'd also expect a vastly improved Contador (from recent races) to have something to say about who wins the tour.

What more does a guy have to do to qualify as a loyal tank-drainer? http://youtu.be/1yLWjeaZN3U?t=22m (Watch for 10 mins) Froome gets righteous stick for the mindless 'attack' but precious few plaudits for dragging Wiggins back several times. Bad show.

That was his job. All I am saying is if he had done that rather than heading off up the road when he did Wiggins would have had less of a position this year to muddy the waters.

Another part of my post did say that all of this is nonsense.

Rubbish*. Everyone would be asking why the hell does this jumped up Kenyan think he should be team leader? He's shown nothing to merit it, he's just a roadsweeper. Froome did his job last year, but also showed everyone he's not a going to sit around for another few years acting as bag man. He's forced this conversation out into the open. Good on him.

He deserves his chance on a course better suited to him, like last year's Tour and this years Giro are better suited to Wiggins.

* I'm going to shut up now because this is starting to work me up.

I would have thought the best folks to determine who "deserves his chance" would be those nice people that pay his wages.

LeicesterLad

feltkuota wrote:

powerbookboy wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

smithy21 wrote:

Froome is reaping what he sowed last year. If he had drained the tanks in service of an undisputed team leader none of this would be happening now. Instead he held enough back to be able to stay in the lead group and make a couple of unneccessary attacks to prove a point. If he had done what he was supposed to do Wiggins would have unquestionably owed him one.

Anyway all of this is just nonsense. They both have races to ride before we even get to July. I'd also expect a vastly improved Contador (from recent races) to have something to say about who wins the tour.

What more does a guy have to do to qualify as a loyal tank-drainer? http://youtu.be/1yLWjeaZN3U?t=22m (Watch for 10 mins) Froome gets righteous stick for the mindless 'attack' but precious few plaudits for dragging Wiggins back several times. Bad show.

That was his job. All I am saying is if he had done that rather than heading off up the road when he did Wiggins would have had less of a position this year to muddy the waters.

Another part of my post did say that all of this is nonsense.

Rubbish*. Everyone would be asking why the hell does this jumped up Kenyan think he should be team leader? He's shown nothing to merit it, he's just a roadsweeper. Froome did his job last year, but also showed everyone he's not a going to sit around for another few years acting as bag man. He's forced this conversation out into the open. Good on him.

He deserves his chance on a course better suited to him, like last year's Tour and this years Giro are better suited to Wiggins.

* I'm going to shut up now because this is starting to work me up.

I would have thought the best folks to determine who "deserves his chance" would be those nice people that pay his wages.

Those nice people that have paid him to consistently win races this year, or the nice people that have paid Wiggins (probably substantially more) to finish 5th a couple of times...

feltkuota

Those nice people that have paid him to consistently win races this year, or the nice people that have paid Wiggins (probably substantially more) to finish 5th a couple of times...[/quote]

Unless I'm mistaken they're one and the same.

Richmond Racer

If we want to look at comparative ROI, Wiggins has been worth incalculably more than Froome in terms of PR over the last 10 months to 'those nice people'. And that will remain so even if Froome wins the Tour. Wiggins sells to the general public, Froome will only sell to the niche cycling market.

Sorry to bring things down to such a base, commercial level...