Sky - internal strife - Froome vs Wiggins

plectrum
plectrum Posts: 225
edited May 2013 in Pro race
Can there be 2 team leaders ???
Is Wiggins a child?
Who is the better rider?
Does Wiggins deserve some respect?
Is Froome the real deal and at 27 a multiple TdF potential winner?
Can Wiggins win with this year's course?
..... lots of questions.

It will certainly prove exciting but if I was Brailsford, I'd not even take Wiggins to France.
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Comments

  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    edited April 2013
    Where's the strife? As Wiggins says, its Brailsford's call. If he decides its Froome, the team will ride for Froome, and Wiggins will be up at the front as Froome was last year - unless he gets dropped.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,149
    plectrum wrote:
    Can there be 2 team leaders ???
    Is Wiggins a child?
    Who is the better rider?
    Does Wiggins deserve some respect?
    Is Froome the real deal and at 27 a multiple TdF potential winner?
    Can Wiggins win with this year's course?
    ..... lots of questions.
    Yes, initially
    No
    Froome on climbs, Wiggins in TTs
    Yes
    Yes
    Yes
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Yes there can be, though I doubt that will be the case
    No he's a grown man as far as I can tell & well worth his weight in gold in press conferences Youtube it
    Neither are different kind of riders really one a diesel & one quite explosive but both very good
    Who does not respect him?
    Yep does seem to be the real deal if you look at his previous wins
    Assume you mean the Giro? If so yes, but its down to how fast the others go too, or the Tour same answer applies

    As for not taking them both leaving out your number 1 & 2 riders is a bit OTT, but your not SurDave so I guess thats not an issue.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    though Surdave might want to see if Steve Peters is free for 3 weeks in Jul...
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    though Surdave might want to see if Steve Peters is free for 3 weeks in Jul...

    What for him to sort out his monkey? Did I hear right that Brad doesn't do the SP way?
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Wiggins is doing the Giro and there's no possible way he can win both Giro and Tour. We've already seen that it's not possible in modern cycling. When the Giro is over, he'll be a domestique for Froome in France.

    Only if he quits Giro - due to what ever reason - some of these questions could be asked.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Danlikesbikes wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    though Surdave might want to see if Steve Peters is free for 3 weeks in Jul...

    What for him to sort out his monkey? Did I hear right that Brad doesn't do the SP way?


    On the contrary, Bradders has always credited Steve Peters with helping him become a champ. Worked loads with him.

    Froome might need his help if things get hairy... :wink:
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    ThomThom wrote:
    Wiggins is doing the Giro and there's no possible way he can win both Giro and Tour. We've already seen that it's not possible in modern cycling. When the Giro is over, he'll be a domestique for Froome in France.

    Only if he quits Giro - due to what ever reason - some of these questions could be asked.

    FWIW Kerrison suggests that its not impossible;
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ap ... NETTXT3487
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Richmond Racer wrote:

    On the contrary, Bradders has always credited Steve Peters with helping him become a champ. Worked loads with him.

    Froome might need his help if things get hairy... :wink:

    Know he works with him, but thought he made a comment about it in the Sky Docu was all
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Has anything new happened to think there might be internal strife?
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Yes BBC midday news report with Wiggo stating he was going for both the Giro & Tour. Brings up the whole, who is the team leader for the Tour argument again.

    Is mentioned in this one viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12918291&start=140 page 8 about halfway down and onwards.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    edited April 2013
    Danlikesbikes wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    Wiggins is doing the Giro and there's no possible way he can win both Giro and Tour. We've already seen that it's not possible in modern cycling. When the Giro is over, he'll be a domestique for Froome in France.

    Only if he quits Giro - due to what ever reason - some of these questions could be asked.

    FWIW Kerrison suggests that its not impossible;
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ap ... NETTXT3487

    Last riders to do this was Pantani and Indurain... The perhaps most gifted rider (gifted for a reason, I know) in peloton - and most hated rider on this forum - wasn't even close on winning the Tour in 2011.

    Not buying it. If Wiggins wins both Giro and Tour De France - which he won't - I'd be laughing at how ridiculous it all would be.

    I fully expect Wiggins to do a great Giro and moves on to support Froome in July like it was promised to Froome long time ago.
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    ThomThom wrote:
    Danlikesbikes wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    Wiggins is doing the Giro and there's no possible way he can win both Giro and Tour. We've already seen that it's not possible in modern cycling. When the Giro is over, he'll be a domestique for Froome in France.

    Only if he quits Giro - due to what ever reason - some of these questions could be asked.

    FWIW Kerrison suggests that its not impossible;
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ap ... NETTXT3487

    Last riders to do this was Pantani and Indurain... The perhaps most gifted rider (gifted for a reason, I know) in peloton - and most hated rider on this forum - wasn't even close on winning the Tour in 2011.

    Not buying it. If Wiggins wins both Giro and Tour De France - which he won't - I'd be laughing at how ridiculous it all would be.

    Don't think Bertie is most hated (Lance?) and probably not most gifted either. 2011 could be read as Giro - usual preparation; Tour - better be a bit careful here! Starting to get the feeling we'll see 2011 Contador (at best) at this year's Tour, but fair play if he proves me wrong.

    Hesjedal seemed to think he was in form at the Tour last year - we never found out if that was true though. I don't think its impossible for Wiggins to be in top form for both, but winning either will be tough given the parcours - Tour more complicated due to Froome who I think will go in as a strong favouite.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Froome will get the nod as leader unless he has a mare between now and the Tour.

    But definitely a possibility that Brad may be above him on GC after the 2nd TT before the Alpe stage. Which would be interesting.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    If there's one thing guaranteed to get the last watt out of Froome, it's the terrifying prospect of Wiggins cruising the Giro after taking 2 mins on Nibali on stage 8's Wiggo-optimised TT. Forget mind-games, there could then be some belting action on the road as Froome works with Alberto, Pinot, Rolland etc to build a buffer against Wiggo's tour TT.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    ThomThom wrote:

    Not buying it. If Wiggins wins both Giro and Tour De France - which he won't - I'd be laughing at how ridiculous it all would be.

    Out of interest why?

    I understand the history side, but think that from a science point of view regarding his training & if he wins the first & gets a months rest it is possibly.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,149
    edited April 2013
    With Contador in 2011 you have to remember that he was involved in a doping case at the time and would have anticipated being bannned. Originally the hearing was due to be held in June which is why he did the Giro. But then the hearing got pushed to August so he had a crack at the Tour as well. His calendar that year was a little ad hoc and not pre planned like Wiggins.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    William Fotheringham's write up on the Wiggins interview. As to be expected, rather more informative that the Beeb one
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ap ... talia-tour
  • gingermagician
    gingermagician Posts: 326
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    William Fotheringham's write up on the Wiggins interview. As to be expected, rather more informative that the Beeb one
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ap ... talia-tour
    Agreed.

    I think the bit where he says, '...or you know what, for the first week we'll go with both of you and see what happens' is pretty illuminating. Wiggins clearly fancies his chances of monstering that first TT and putting some serious time into Froome and the rest if the GC contenders.
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    But definitely a possibility that Brad may be above him on GC after the 2nd TT before the Alpe stage. Which would be interesting.
    Yep. Not inconceivable that Wiggo will be in yellow after Stage 11.

    I said in another thread - this scenario would mean that Froome has to attack Wiggins if he is the leader. The question then is whether Sky let Wiggins try to defend his title and chase after him (if he has the legs).

    Long wat to go of course and we are getting ahead of ourselves - always good fun to speculate though. :mrgreen:
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Thanks Dan.

    I'm at work so not watched the vid, read the article now though. Any chance it's just talk? It does sound like he doesn't want to do all the donkey work early on, but perhaps be the last man on a climb and ride with Froome, like it was last year (but the other way round). That way should the worst happen he's still in a good position to capitalise - seems to make sense, the year before when Wiggo ended up out the race they could've done with a plan B.

    The other thing that makes me think it may just be talk, as the organiser of the World's biggest race you don't really want last year's winner to be basically say "I'm going to roll over and not bother defending my title".
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    I can't see this being much more than games because anything else and surely it would spell the end to whatever prospect there is of the both of them remaining at the team. It already looks a bit bizarre and split within the team, Froome (who I wasn't a fan of last year) seems to have the more friendly approach and wiggo is just being his usual, slightly rebel, self.

    I like wiggins, I would love to see him prove he can cut it with explosive mountain goats or at least keep in touch to take the time in his greatest strength. But this surely would only annoy froome who was clearly told to do his job and stick with wiggins last year. I didn't like him posturing about how he clearly was playing a team role and could achieve more so this from wiggins seems to also fly in the face of what works for the team. However maybe if the team said duke it out we would get some great tv but they would surely risk everything as a team to do this.

    Imagine letting either rider break the other one day to see it all go to cack for that rider the day or week after. Last year I thought the wiggo choice was right, stronger in TT and proven ability to handle big pressure events (olympics etc). It felt like letting froome take time on a mountain was a bigger risk on whether he could handle the pressure in the following days. I remember when he had great days at barloworld only to disappear to the back or blow up halfway through a climb. I do feel this season they have got him used to being the leader and I fully expect him to lay everything down at the Tour vs contador and the rest.

    We keep hearing these contradictions on who the team ride for in france from wiggins. What I am really interested to see is if he is capable at the tour and froome as expected is the leader, will he follow froome or try and stake his claim more firmly than froome did last year. Imagine Michelle C's tweets if that happened!
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    hammerite wrote:
    Thanks Dan.

    I'm at work so not watched the vid, read the article now though. Any chance it's just talk? It does sound like he doesn't want to do all the donkey work early on, but perhaps be the last man on a climb and ride with Froome, like it was last year (but the other way round). That way should the worst happen he's still in a good position to capitalise - seems to make sense, the year before when Wiggo ended up out the race they could've done with a plan B.

    The other thing that makes me think it may just be talk, as the organiser of the World's biggest race you don't really want last year's winner to be basically say "I'm going to roll over and not bother defending my title".

    Well we have been through this with Wiggo before (not having a go before I get flamed by everyone) & he does seem think he has it in him. In other interviews he seems to be suggesting that both riders are good and he would think that the best way forward is for Sky to allow them to ride as co-leaders in the first week, or so, meaning he could well get a lead going into the mountains.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    hammerite wrote:
    I'm at work so not watched the vid, read the article now though. Any chance it's just talk? It does sound like he doesn't want to do all the donkey work early on, but perhaps be the last man on a climb and ride with Froome, like it was last year (but the other way round).
    For the plan B to work, Wiggo will need to be protected just like Froome was last year and should only be doing the work when no-one is left.
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Daz555 wrote:
    hammerite wrote:
    I'm at work so not watched the vid, read the article now though. Any chance it's just talk? It does sound like he doesn't want to do all the donkey work early on, but perhaps be the last man on a climb and ride with Froome, like it was last year (but the other way round).
    For the plan B to work, Wiggo will need to be protected just like Froome was last year and should only be doing the work when no-one is left.

    However could be that Froome is protected & has the pace set by the train with more increase/decreases in speed which he prefers leaving Wiggo to just do his thing and either hang in or diesel it out at his own relentless pace.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    The thing which could hurt Wiggo the most in the mountains (assuming Froome leads) is that the Sky train will surely not operate in the same way. Wiggins likes a very high tempo which he knows hurts the pure climbers and takes the sting out of the punchy breakaways. Froome does not need this tactic and riding at a slower pace early on would leave Wiggins exposed if it gets explosive later on.
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Can't see the sky train riding slower though as if they do other teams will just try and up it to shell out the weaker riders or take the sting out of the sky train.

    But you never know!
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Anyone who mentions Hinault / lemond gets biffed in the nose
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,905
    Daz555 wrote:
    hammerite wrote:
    I'm at work so not watched the vid, read the article now though. Any chance it's just talk? It does sound like he doesn't want to do all the donkey work early on, but perhaps be the last man on a climb and ride with Froome, like it was last year (but the other way round).
    For the plan B to work, Wiggo will need to be protected just like Froome was last year and should only be doing the work when no-one is left.

    Can't see why he wouldn't be really. Without Cavendish this year that'll mean at least one extra domestique on hand to help. Considering they lost Suitsou early last year as well and there should be plenty of helpers for both Wiggins and Froome.

    The difficulty comes if Froome is the leader and Wiggins has a crash. Would they give him teammates to get him back or would they stay to protect Froome?
  • esafosfina1
    esafosfina1 Posts: 153
    Having two leaders is problematic, but not impossible. If indeed two leaders is the tactic employed I foresee issues with the domestique roles played out by other team-mates... who rides for whom? Just a thought a DS friend of mine mentioned a while back...

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