Tirreno-Adriatico 2013 *SPOILERS*

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Comments

  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Fan's video from the climb
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... yPRPqKMOXc
    That's a fantastic video. Thanks for posting FF.
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    Greipel getting ahelping hand around 6min10 in that vid - that would be an upper body workout for the spectator!
  • lloyd_bower
    lloyd_bower Posts: 664
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    lloyd bower wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Perhaps more shocking is that Contador went from legendary battles with Rasmussen, to not even being able to beat Chris Froome, and barely holding off Michal Kwiatkowski. What changed??

    Pan flat TT courses are a little different to mountains stages just in case you weren't aware.

    Yep, quite a record on flat time trials Contador:-
    2009 Stage 18 Results
    1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana - 0:48:31
    2 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team Saxo Bank - 0:00:03
    3 Mikhail Ignatiev (Rus) Team Katusha - 0:00:15
    4 Gustav Erik Larsson (Swe) Team Saxo Bank - 0:00:32
    5 David Millar (GBr) Garmin – Slipstream - 0:00:40
    6 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin – Slipstream - 0:00:42
    Beat a few specialists there, 2 Olympic Champion and World TT'ers, that was before the tainted beef of course :lol:

    TO be fair to Contador, that course had a 5km climb in the middle of it and was situated after 3 weeks of Tour de France. I'm not so sure why anyone would be shocked at a GC rider who can turn in a TT doing well.

    Not I guess we shouldn't be shocked, it's happened before hasn't it? Armstrong, Ulrich of course.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    lloyd bower wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    lloyd bower wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Perhaps more shocking is that Contador went from legendary battles with Rasmussen, to not even being able to beat Chris Froome, and barely holding off Michal Kwiatkowski. What changed??

    Pan flat TT courses are a little different to mountains stages just in case you weren't aware.

    Yep, quite a record on flat time trials Contador:-
    2009 Stage 18 Results
    1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana - 0:48:31
    2 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team Saxo Bank - 0:00:03
    3 Mikhail Ignatiev (Rus) Team Katusha - 0:00:15
    4 Gustav Erik Larsson (Swe) Team Saxo Bank - 0:00:32
    5 David Millar (GBr) Garmin – Slipstream - 0:00:40
    6 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin – Slipstream - 0:00:42
    Beat a few specialists there, 2 Olympic Champion and World TT'ers, that was before the tainted beef of course :lol:

    TO be fair to Contador, that course had a 5km climb in the middle of it and was situated after 3 weeks of Tour de France. I'm not so sure why anyone would be shocked at a GC rider who can turn in a TT doing well.

    Not I guess we shouldn't be shocked, it's happened before hasn't it? Armstrong, Ulrich of course.


    As I said I was being fair. I don't think (outside of MTTs) Armstrong or Ullrich ever partook in a final TIme Trial with a 5km climb in the middle.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • lloyd_bower
    lloyd_bower Posts: 664
    edited March 2013
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Lol at people looking for excuses for Froome.

    But his weight brings up another point. He is heavier than the other GC contenders and still manages to explode past them on the climbs :roll:

    I'm certainly no defender of Froome, and not stupid enough to guarantee he's not been on the juice, but I thought his excuses were pretty similar to Contador's who usually drooling over.

    Edit: obvious typo
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    lloyd bower wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Lol at people looking for excuses for Froome.

    But his weight brings up another point. He is heavier than the other GC contenders and still manages to explode past them on the climbs :roll:

    I'm certainly no defender of Froome, and not stupid enough to guarantee he's not being on the juice, but I thought his excuses were pretty similar to Contador's who usually drooling over.


    As there tends to be this perception of top climbers being whippets, I thought I'd look up a few top level GC guys' weights. Amongst their lighter Nibali, Purito and Contador, there's:

    Cadel Evans - 68kg
    Chris Froome - 69kg
    Robert Gesink - 70Kg
    Jurgen Van Den Broek - 68kg
    Ryder Hejesdal - 73kg
    Bradley Wiggins - 69kg (top fighting weight, anyway)

    Tejay's 69kg

    Interesting, I thought.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    tumblr_mjk1j1WuuY1qfcvrto1_400.gif
    Contador is the Greatest
  • TimB34
    TimB34 Posts: 316
    That list doesn't really take into account build. Just for fun here's a list of BMIs (using ht and wt from wikipedia)

    Cadel Evans - 67kg, 1.74m : BMI 22.1
    Chris Froome - 69kg, 1.86m : BMI 19.9
    Robert Gesink - 68Kg, 1.87m : BMI 19.4
    Jurgen Van Den Broeck - 69kg, 1.86m : BMI 19.9
    Ryder Hejesdal - 72kg, 1.88m : BMI 20.4
    Bradley Wiggins - 69kg, 1.90m : BMI 19.1
    Tejay van Garderen - 67kg, 1.85m : BMI 19.6
    Vincenzo Nibali - 63kg, 1.80m : BMI 19.4
    J-rod - 57kg, 1.69m : BMI 20.0
    Alberto Contador : 62kg, 1.76m : BMI 20.0

    Underweight = <18.5
    Normal weight = 18.5–24.9

    All perfectly normal! (probably due to significantly heavier legs than non-cyclists)

    Even Michael Rasmussen, the most stick-thin cyclist I can think of comes in at 59kg, 1.74m : BMI 19.5

    Edit: Peter Sagan - 73kg, 1.84m: BMI 21.6 :lol:
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Good info Tim.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    No it isn't - BMI is more or less useless as a measure of anything except large scale population averages.
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    To be fair, he did say it was just for fun.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • pat1cp
    pat1cp Posts: 766
    inkyfingers wrote:
    To be fair, he did say it was just for fun.

    I think FF regarding the info as good was the target of the post.
    http://tinyurl.com/332edp
    http://tinyurl.com/2nu7r3
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    pat1cp wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:
    To be fair, he did say it was just for fun.

    I think FF regarding the info as good was the target of the post.

    I gave up trying to preach to Frenchie some time ago :wink:
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    I know. Just for fun, my BMI is currently 29.7 :oops:
    My absolute optimum fighting weight (and last time I was at it I was 18 and could do 100 pressups in a minute) puts me at almost exactly 25, the start of the "overweight" category.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Good article about Phinney:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 39720.html
    Contador is the Greatest
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Good article about Phinney:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 39720.html

    Frenchie, that's a great find. See, that's what I mean about the positive stuff you bring to the forum when you're not being a trolling cock!
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
    Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
    Allround - Cotic Solaris
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Good article about Phinney:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 39720.html

    Brilliant article, good find.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    lostboysaint wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Good article about Phinney:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 39720.html

    Frenchie, that's a great find. See, that's what I mean about the positive stuff you bring to the forum when you're not being a trolling fool!

    I never have never been a troll, I just often don't hold the same opinions as most people, and don't care to pander to the crowds. It gets a bit tiring though when people (and you are included) try and bite and taunt on everything I say - however it has been going on so long that I instinctively ignore and pass over it.

    I am glad you like the article though. It always surprises me that the WSJ often has such great cycling articles.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    WSJ has outstanding sports writers generally. They did a massive article on Derek Boogaard which was brilliant if you want an example.
    _
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    frenchfighter wrote:
    lostboysaint wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Good article about Phinney:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 39720.html

    Frenchie, that's a great find. See, that's what I mean about the positive stuff you bring to the forum when you're not being a trolling fool!

    I never have never been a troll, I just often don't hold the same opinions as most people, and don't care to pander to the crowds. It gets a bit tiring though when people (and you are included) try and bite and taunt on everything I say - however it has been going on so long that I instinctively ignore and pass over it.

    I am glad you like the article though. It always surprises me that the WSJ often has such great cycling articles.

    Got no problem with having different opinions, but you need to wise up in your presentation of them if you think that the way you go about it at the moment is anything other than trolling. You only need go back a few pages to see a few examples. I've also got no problem with you including me in the "taunting" crowd as I'll freely admit to doing it, simply because, as I've suggested in the first sentence, that your presentation of your "opinions" along with your comments on others leaves a lot to be desired if you don't want to be considered a troll.

    As I've said to you on here many times now, it's almost a price worth paying for some of the excellent stuff that you put on here though and that latest link was another great example. Please don't stop doing that!!
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
    Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
    Allround - Cotic Solaris
  • pat1cp
    pat1cp Posts: 766
    frenchfighter wrote:
    lostboysaint wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Good article about Phinney:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 39720.html

    Frenchie, that's a great find. See, that's what I mean about the positive stuff you bring to the forum when you're not being a trolling fool!

    I never have never been a troll, I just often don't hold the same opinions as most people, and don't care to pander to the crowds. It gets a bit tiring though when people (and you are included) try and bite and taunt on everything I say - however it has been going on so long that I instinctively ignore and pass over it.

    I am glad you like the article though. It always surprises me that the WSJ often has such great cycling articles.
    You accusing people of taunting and being tiring is somewhat ironic.
    http://tinyurl.com/332edp
    http://tinyurl.com/2nu7r3
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Thanks for the advice lbs, but I think after 5 years or so on here I am doing just fine and if anyone has a large problem they can PM me or they can 'foe' me. Just like those who PM me in support do.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    bompington wrote:
    No it isn't - BMI is more or less useless as a measure of anything except large scale population averages.
    BMI seems a reasonable way to compare elite cyclists who can compete for GC in a GT with other elite cyclists who can compete for GC in a GT. Comparing them with us normals, or other athletes would probably be less useful.
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Good article about Phinney:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 39720.html
    Brilliant.

    I don't know another sport where it's so common that the guy who finishes last is celebrated as much as in cycling. Some how the format of the sport allows for a large number of "winners" from any given race when logically there should only be one.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,434
    Still think it was a stupid decision not to let him continue in the race.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Graeme_S wrote:
    I don't know another sport where it's so common that the guy who finishes last is celebrated as much as in cycling. Some how the format of the sport allows for a large number of "winners" from any given race when logically there should only be one.

    Yeah, it is a beautiful sport.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Still think it was a stupid decision not to let him continue in the race.

    Do you?

    If he'd won the TT the next day but shouldnt have been in the race, would that have been fair?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,434
    iainf72 wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Still think it was a stupid decision not to let him continue in the race.

    Do you?

    If he'd won the TT the next day but shouldnt have been in the race, would that have been fair?


    Honestly? Yes.

    In this scenario; tough stage, rider dropped due to mechanical, gets back on, group he is with quit en masse leaving the rider with an impossible gap to close solo and he continues on to finish the stage I would say that the race organisers should apply common sense and fair play to the decision to exclude him from the race *

    This seems like a more 'sporting' application of the rules than having a group do at headcount to make sure there's enough of them to not get DQed

    Frankly if he were to go on to win the TT I'd let him have his pick of the podiums girls



    * Maybe a liberal interpretation of the rules isn't within the gift of the organisers. If so, meh! rules is rules.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    But how would that be fair on Tony Martin if Taylor Phinney had beaten him? He managed to get around the stage OK. Martin could have taken the stage alot easier if he had known that riders would get reinstated into the race.
  • nic_77
    nic_77 Posts: 929
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    But how would that be fair on Tony Martin if Taylor Phinney had beaten him? He managed to get around the stage OK. Martin could have taken the stage alot easier if he had known that riders would get reinstated into the race.
    Phinney rode 130km of the stage solo, he had about as much chance of winning the TT as me.
    Personally agree that rules are rules and that he shouldn't be reinstated, but good on him anyway.
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