Puerto trial

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  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    For some reason I was not expecting Rafa Nadal to speak so bluntly about doping in Spanish sport: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2 ... ling-video (I'm relying on the translation).
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    Justice for all those cheated athletes available. At a price...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu
  • Beatmaker
    Beatmaker Posts: 1,092
    Another is: "My medical relationship with winners of the London marathon... including pre-race treatments." It is not clear who he was talking about, though Spaniard Abel Anton won the race in 1998. Anton is now a senator for the ruling People's party along with Marta Dominguez, a world champion middle distance runner who shook off doping allegations after being arrested in 2010.

    This may go some way to explaining the desire to move on quickly and destrow the evidence by the Spanish courts! :shock:
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Justice for all those cheated athletes available. At a price...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu
    Whoever the highest media bidder is, their bid will be less than Barcelona pay just one their top players in a week. So who do you think will be the highest bidder?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    RichN95 wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Justice for all those cheated athletes available. At a price...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu
    Whoever the highest media bidder is, their bid will be less than Barcelona pay just one their top players in a week. So who do you think will be the highest bidder?
    Oh you cynic, you. Sadly, you're probably right. The way he's almost 'packaging' the revelations suggest we may hear about some new names but only those who can't afford to pay. Dangerous for him if he is doing that though as it would be tantamount to blackmail assuming Spanish law is similar to English law.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    i'm assuming he is doing this publicly in order to scare Barca, Real and all the big names tied up in this. In the end money talks and the highest bidder will either get him to talk or have enough money to shut him up
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    Dream scenario: All the names come out and Fuentes does time for blackmail.

    Not likely though.

    Now Arsenal may have a few quid spare, having just signed England's most lucrative ever kit deal (£30 mill per year plus bonuses). I'll look forward to reading the revelations in a matchday program some time...

    I want our bloody 2006 CL Trophy!
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262

    Now Arsenal may have a few quid spare, having just signed England's most lucrative ever kit deal (£30 mill per year plus bonuses). I'll look forward to reading the revelations in a matchday program some time...

    I want our bloody 2006 CL Trophy!

    It's your best chance of winning a trophy in the next ten years.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    RichN95 wrote:

    Now Arsenal may have a few quid spare, having just signed England's most lucrative ever kit deal (£30 mill per year plus bonuses). I'll look forward to reading the revelations in a matchday program some time...

    I want our bloody 2006 CL Trophy!

    It's your best chance of winning a trophy in the next ten years.

    Given the physical edge that the Spanish and now the Germans seem to have....
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  • I can't see the problem. All those experts who had found a pinhead to contemplate - we have legal finality - Fuentes did not do anything illegal taking blood and re-infusing it. All he was convicted for was not putting it in the fridge fast enough and not keeping it cold enough. His list is of a bunch of people who paid him for a service that it is entirely legal to conduct in Spain. So he is going to publish a list of people who were doing something they were allowed to do, or perhaps he won't publish it, depending on who pays him what. Seems like an entirely enterprising scheme. No laws broken, what's not to like ?

    Time to get off the pin head and get a bit of perspective. These are a bunch of crooks regardless of how feeble the laws are. Let them get on with whatever they want to do but don't give them any Olympics and toughen the WADA code so that it has real teeth to enforce best practice across national boundaries. Then let Spain decide whether it still wants to play. If it doesn't, then fine. Up until the time society gets off its backside and shakes itself out a little, it will be as Nicole Cooke said - cheats will win on the way up and the way down.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    I can't see the problem. All those experts who had found a pinhead to contemplate - we have legal finality - Fuentes did not do anything illegal taking blood and re-infusing it. All he was convicted for was not putting it in the fridge fast enough and not keeping it cold enough. His list is of a bunch of people who paid him for a service that it is entirely legal to conduct in Spain. So he is going to publish a list of people who were doing something they were allowed to do, or perhaps he won't publish it, depending on who pays him what. Seems like an entirely enterprising scheme. No laws broken, what's not to like ?

    Time to get off the pin head and get a bit of perspective. These are a bunch of crooks regardless of how feeble the laws are. Let them get on with whatever they want to do but don't give them any Olympics and toughen the WADA code so that it has real teeth to enforce best practice across national boundaries. Then let Spain decide whether it still wants to play. If it doesn't, then fine. Up until the time society gets off its backside and shakes itself out a little, it will be as Nicole Cooke said - cheats will win on the way up and the way down.

    Ah, ok. So you have no issue with your doctor selling your medical records to the highest bidder?
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    RichN95 wrote:

    Now Arsenal may have a few quid spare, having just signed England's most lucrative ever kit deal (£30 mill per year plus bonuses). I'll look forward to reading the revelations in a matchday program some time...

    I want our bloody 2006 CL Trophy!

    It's your best chance of winning a trophy in the next ten years.

    Given the physical edge that the Spanish and now the Germans seem to have....

    Physical, no its a technical edge. and Messi's HGH inspired ability... though Bayern looked physically indomitable the other night.

    the team that should worry is Real Soceidad apparently... the team that came second or 3rd in the league, without much form beforehand.... and then faded very fast....
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    DeadCalm wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Justice for all those cheated athletes available. At a price...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu
    Whoever the highest media bidder is, their bid will be less than Barcelona pay just one their top players in a week. So who do you think will be the highest bidder?
    Oh you cynic, you. Sadly, you're probably right. The way he's almost 'packaging' the revelations suggest we may hear about some new names but only those who can't afford to pay. Dangerous for him if he is doing that though as it would be tantamount to blackmail assuming Spanish law is similar to English law.

    Not sure whether this is his way of trying to influence his own appeal. Notice he has said that his is waiting the outcome of the WADA appeal, as if that goes through he is blown out of the water & basically has nothing of any worth to sell. Agree that if the WADA appeal does not he is basically blackmailing those who he worked for.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • DeadCalm wrote:

    Ah, ok. So you have no issue with your doctor selling your medical records to the highest bidder?

    Of course the contract - I forgot. Supply of goods and services 1982 would cover it here perhaps. Sorry I did not know these riders had a contract of silence with the good Doctor ? I would very much like to see the nature of the contract they entered into when handing over the money. If they were paying such good money I hope they got a receipt. After all it was quite a bit they were paying so you would expect something proper. What was it para 3 - .....

    But I thought the whole deal was that they did not have a contract and they wanted to pretend that they had never set eyes on him and had never paid him anything.

    The doctor was fined about 1/10th of what Hamilton paid the doctor each year for his help. Hamilton paid him so that Hamilton could steal the livelihoods and what belonged to others. OK the crime did not take place in Spain, but the doctor was selling the "tools" that could only be used for committing a crime. It was not like Hamilton was paying him 43,000 so he could do a personal best at the club 10.

    Paying a doctor for professional services and paying a doctor who is very much an accessory to a crime I can only commit if I purchase such services from that doctor are only equatable in the minds of idiots.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    DeadCalm wrote:

    Ah, ok. So you have no issue with your doctor selling your medical records to the highest bidder?

    Of course the contract - I forgot. Supply of goods and services 1982 would cover it here perhaps. Sorry I did not know these riders had a contract of silence with the good Doctor ? I would very much like to see the nature of the contract they entered into when handing over the money. If they were paying such good money I hope they got a receipt. After all it was quite a bit they were paying so you would expect something proper. What was it para 3 - .....

    But I thought the whole deal was that they did not have a contract and they wanted to pretend that they had never set eyes on him and had never paid him anything.

    The doctor was fined about 1/10th of what Hamilton paid the doctor each year for his help. Hamilton paid him so that Hamilton could steal the livelihoods and what belonged to others. OK the crime did not take place in Spain, but the doctor was selling the "tools" that could only be used for committing a crime. It was not like Hamilton was paying him 43,000 so he could do a personal best at the club 10.

    Paying a doctor for professional services and paying a doctor who is very much an accessory to a crime I can only commit if I purchase such services from that doctor are only equatable in the minds of idiots.

    Quite spectacularly ignorant. Well done.
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  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    DeadCalm wrote:

    Ah, ok. So you have no issue with your doctor selling your medical records to the highest bidder?

    Of course the contract - I forgot. Supply of goods and services 1982 would cover it here perhaps. Sorry I did not know these riders had a contract of silence with the good Doctor ? I would very much like to see the nature of the contract they entered into when handing over the money. If they were paying such good money I hope they got a receipt. After all it was quite a bit they were paying so you would expect something proper. What was it para 3 - .....

    But I thought the whole deal was that they did not have a contract and they wanted to pretend that they had never set eyes on him and had never paid him anything.

    The doctor was fined about 1/10th of what Hamilton paid the doctor each year for his help. Hamilton paid him so that Hamilton could steal the livelihoods and what belonged to others. OK the crime did not take place in Spain, but the doctor was selling the "tools" that could only be used for committing a crime. It was not like Hamilton was paying him 43,000 so he could do a personal best at the club 10.

    Paying a doctor for professional services and paying a doctor who is very much an accessory to a crime I can only commit if I purchase such services from that doctor are only equatable in the minds of idiots.
    I'm bored of this now. Who mentioned a contract? I suggest you google the Hippocratic Oath.
  • DeadCalm wrote:
    I'm bored of this now. Who mentioned a contract? I suggest you google the Hippocratic Oath.

    Where does it say in the Hippocratic oath that when helping somebody rob an innocent, you must remain silent when those vested by society are going about their public duty investigating it.

    I seem to remember that it has as a precept "First do no harm". Well you would have to be totally blind not to see that there are one heck of a lot of people across the globe who have been harmed by the good doctor. Seems like you are wanting to pick and chose your bits of the Hippocratic oath...I'll take a bit of line 4, that bit of line 12 and can I just have the firs section of annex A please.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    DeadCalm wrote:
    I'm bored of this now. Who mentioned a contract? I suggest you google the Hippocratic Oath.

    Where does it say in the Hippocratic oath that when helping somebody rob an innocent, you must remain silent when those vested by society are going about their public duty investigating it.

    I seem to remember that it has as a precept "First do no harm". Well you would have to be totally blind not to see that there are one heck of a lot of people across the globe who have been harmed by the good doctor. Seems like you are wanting to pick and chose your bits of the Hippocratic oath...I'll take a bit of line 4, that bit of line 12 and can I just have the firs section of annex A please.
    OK. You win. I have a fairly high tolerance for stupidity and you are the first user who has managed to provoke me into utilising the ignore functionality on this forum. Congratulations!
  • DeadCalm wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    I'm bored of this now. Who mentioned a contract? I suggest you google the Hippocratic Oath.

    OK. You win. I have a fairly high tolerance for stupidity and you are the first user who has managed to provoke me into utilising the ignore functionality on this forum. Congratulations!

    No darned contract, can't pick and chose on the good oath. Your comments add to the worst caricatures of your profession. And when all else fails..

    Give it a couple of years and then take a look in the mirror.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    DeadCalm wrote:

    Ah, ok. So you have no issue with your doctor selling your medical records to the highest bidder?

    Of course the contract - I forgot. Supply of goods and services 1982 would cover it here perhaps. Sorry I did not know these riders had a contract of silence with the good Doctor ? I would very much like to see the nature of the contract they entered into when handing over the money. If they were paying such good money I hope they got a receipt. After all it was quite a bit they were paying so you would expect something proper. What was it para 3 - .....

    But I thought the whole deal was that they did not have a contract and they wanted to pretend that they had never set eyes on him and had never paid him anything.

    The doctor was fined about 1/10th of what Hamilton paid the doctor each year for his help. Hamilton paid him so that Hamilton could steal the livelihoods and what belonged to others. OK the crime did not take place in Spain, but the doctor was selling the "tools" that could only be used for committing a crime. It was not like Hamilton was paying him 43,000 so he could do a personal best at the club 10.

    Paying a doctor for professional services and paying a doctor who is very much an accessory to a crime I can only commit if I purchase such services from that doctor are only equatable in the minds of idiots.

    Quite spectacularly ignorant. Well done.

    Not sure that Hamilton stole much really, they were all at it, it was the culture.
  • Joelsim wrote:
    Not sure that Hamilton stole much really, they were all at it, it was the culture.

    You could be right, there are certainly a lot of Lance fanboys who applaud that kind of thinking. Darned Europeans, bin cheatin' for generations, then us Yanks come over there and cheat like they do, but only we are good and do it better and beat them and suddenly they get all moral on us. Lance was not doin anything Bugno, Indurain, Fignion Zulle or any of the others weren't doin. Can't see what all the fus is about. Just makin him a scapegoat.

    Or do you need a fence with heroes on one side, Floyd, Tyler, Levi, Big George and Barry and on the other "we was all sweet and innocent until he made us do it - evil bully Lance !" Just Lance.

    It is exactly this deformed and dislocated thinking that allowed the time to pass from 1998 to 2006 without doping becoming a crime in Spain. It does not matter. Yes it does, it is stealing somebody's livelihood.
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Madrid prosecutor to appeal Puerto verdict

    Wants to prevent blood bags being destroyed

    The office of Madrid prosecutor Eduardo Esteban has confirmed he will be lodging an appeal in the Provincial Court of Madrid against the verdict delivered in the Puerto trial at the end of April. According to El País, the prosecutor’s appeal will be made jointly with Spain’s Sports’ Council (the CSD), the World Anti-Doping Agency and the UCI.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Joelsim wrote:
    Not sure that Hamilton stole much really, they were all at it, it was the culture.

    You could be right, there are certainly a lot of Lance fanboys who applaud that kind of thinking. Darned Europeans, bin cheatin' for generations, then us Yanks come over there and cheat like they do, but only we are good and do it better and beat them and suddenly they get all moral on us. Lance was not doin anything Bugno, Indurain, Fignion Zulle or any of the others weren't doin. Can't see what all the fus is about. Just makin him a scapegoat.

    Or do you need a fence with heroes on one side, Floyd, Tyler, Levi, Big George and Barry and on the other "we was all sweet and innocent until he made us do it - evil bully Lance !" Just Lance.

    It is exactly this deformed and dislocated thinking that allowed the time to pass from 1998 to 2006 without doping becoming a crime in Spain. It does not matter. Yes it does, it is stealing somebody's livelihood.

    I agree with the level playing field thing, it is up to the authorities to stamp it out. As far as I can tell from reading many books on the subject, Verbruggen & Co systematically covered things up. Riders then have no choice but to do it, or fall by the wayside. The reason I don't like LA was because he was a bully, Simeoni, LeMond, Andreu, Hamilton and a whole peloton full of others who got in his way or threatened to break the omerta.
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    deejay wrote:
    Madrid prosecutor to appeal Puerto verdict

    Wants to prevent blood bags being destroyed

    The office of Madrid prosecutor Eduardo Esteban has confirmed he will be lodging an appeal in the Provincial Court of Madrid against the verdict delivered in the Puerto trial at the end of April. According to El País, the prosecutor’s appeal will be made jointly with Spain’s Sports’ Council (the CSD), the World Anti-Doping Agency and the UCI.

    Good. A few footballers, tennis players and F1 stars won't sleep quite so easily in their beds again then.....
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
    Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
    Allround - Cotic Solaris
  • mr_poll
    mr_poll Posts: 1,547
    iainf72 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Reports this morning linking Flecha with Fuentes. :(

    Man coached by cecchini used Fuentes for medical assistance? Shocker

    Yeah fair enough - but why nobody mention him until now, especially with him being a former Sky rider... :wink:

    I did back in 2010 when people were nursing a semi about him in the classics


    Tweet from Mikkel Conde:
    mrconde: Vacansoleil & Juan Antonio Flecha win case against Volkskrant. Media linked Flecha to Fuentes without proofs http://t.co/HzysScrSJH #cycling
  • Bo Duke
    Bo Duke Posts: 1,058
    deejay wrote:
    Madrid prosecutor to appeal Puerto verdict

    Wants to prevent blood bags being destroyed

    The office of Madrid prosecutor Eduardo Esteban has confirmed he will be lodging an appeal in the Provincial Court of Madrid against the verdict delivered in the Puerto trial at the end of April. According to El País, the prosecutor’s appeal will be made jointly with Spain’s Sports’ Council (the CSD), the World Anti-Doping Agency and the UCI.

    Good. A few footballers, tennis players and F1 stars won't sleep quite so easily in their beds again then.....
    What happened to this aspect of the case, did they destroy all the old samples?
    'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP
  • Bo Duke wrote:
    deejay wrote:
    Madrid prosecutor to appeal Puerto verdict

    Wants to prevent blood bags being destroyed

    The office of Madrid prosecutor Eduardo Esteban has confirmed he will be lodging an appeal in the Provincial Court of Madrid against the verdict delivered in the Puerto trial at the end of April. According to El País, the prosecutor’s appeal will be made jointly with Spain’s Sports’ Council (the CSD), the World Anti-Doping Agency and the UCI.

    Good. A few footballers, tennis players and F1 stars won't sleep quite so easily in their beds again then.....
    What happened to this aspect of the case, did they destroy all the old samples?


    Think its just working its tortuous way through the Spanish legal system
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    anyone know the life of the blood. Wonder if this will be dragged out so long that it won't be usefull to test at the end any more
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    sherer wrote:
    anyone know the life of the blood. Wonder if this will be dragged out so long that it won't be usefull to test at the end any more

    Some has already had to be destroyed. But if it's stored correctly it should be fine.

    Pointless testing it though, but that's another story.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,611
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish ... committee/

    Will this actually happen and will they name and shame, particularly the footballers and tennis players who have so far escaped scot free?