Puerto trial

mroli

For some reason I was not expecting Rafa Nadal to speak so bluntly about doping in Spanish sport: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2 ... ling-video (I'm relying on the translation).

DeadCalm

Justice for all those cheated athletes available. At a price...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu

Beatmaker

Another is: "My medical relationship with winners of the London marathon... including pre-race treatments." It is not clear who he was talking about, though Spaniard Abel Anton won the race in 1998. Anton is now a senator for the ruling People's party along with Marta Dominguez, a world champion middle distance runner who shook off doping allegations after being arrested in 2010.

This may go some way to explaining the desire to move on quickly and destrow the evidence by the Spanish courts! :shock:

RichN95.

DeadCalm wrote:

Justice for all those cheated athletes available. At a price...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu

Whoever the highest media bidder is, their bid will be less than Barcelona pay just one their top players in a week. So who do you think will be the highest bidder?

DeadCalm

RichN95 wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Justice for all those cheated athletes available. At a price...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu

Whoever the highest media bidder is, their bid will be less than Barcelona pay just one their top players in a week. So who do you think will be the highest bidder?

Oh you cynic, you. Sadly, you're probably right. The way he's almost 'packaging' the revelations suggest we may hear about some new names but only those who can't afford to pay. Dangerous for him if he is doing that though as it would be tantamount to blackmail assuming Spanish law is similar to English law.

sherer

i'm assuming he is doing this publicly in order to scare Barca, Real and all the big names tied up in this. In the end money talks and the highest bidder will either get him to talk or have enough money to shut him up

No_Ta_Doctor

Dream scenario: All the names come out and Fuentes does time for blackmail.

Not likely though.

Now Arsenal may have a few quid spare, having just signed England's most lucrative ever kit deal (£30 mill per year plus bonuses). I'll look forward to reading the revelations in a matchday program some time...

I want our bloody 2006 CL Trophy!

RichN95.

No tA Doctor wrote:

Now Arsenal may have a few quid spare, having just signed England's most lucrative ever kit deal (£30 mill per year plus bonuses). I'll look forward to reading the revelations in a matchday program some time...

I want our bloody 2006 CL Trophy!

It's your best chance of winning a trophy in the next ten years.

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Now Arsenal may have a few quid spare, having just signed England's most lucrative ever kit deal (£30 mill per year plus bonuses). I'll look forward to reading the revelations in a matchday program some time...

I want our bloody 2006 CL Trophy!

It's your best chance of winning a trophy in the next ten years.

Given the physical edge that the Spanish and now the Germans seem to have....

little ring needed

I can't see the problem. All those experts who had found a pinhead to contemplate - we have legal finality - Fuentes did not do anything illegal taking blood and re-infusing it. All he was convicted for was not putting it in the fridge fast enough and not keeping it cold enough. His list is of a bunch of people who paid him for a service that it is entirely legal to conduct in Spain. So he is going to publish a list of people who were doing something they were allowed to do, or perhaps he won't publish it, depending on who pays him what. Seems like an entirely enterprising scheme. No laws broken, what's not to like ?

Time to get off the pin head and get a bit of perspective. These are a bunch of crooks regardless of how feeble the laws are. Let them get on with whatever they want to do but don't give them any Olympics and toughen the WADA code so that it has real teeth to enforce best practice across national boundaries. Then let Spain decide whether it still wants to play. If it doesn't, then fine. Up until the time society gets off its backside and shakes itself out a little, it will be as Nicole Cooke said - cheats will win on the way up and the way down.

DeadCalm

little ring needed wrote:

I can't see the problem. All those experts who had found a pinhead to contemplate - we have legal finality - Fuentes did not do anything illegal taking blood and re-infusing it. All he was convicted for was not putting it in the fridge fast enough and not keeping it cold enough. His list is of a bunch of people who paid him for a service that it is entirely legal to conduct in Spain. So he is going to publish a list of people who were doing something they were allowed to do, or perhaps he won't publish it, depending on who pays him what. Seems like an entirely enterprising scheme. No laws broken, what's not to like ?

Time to get off the pin head and get a bit of perspective. These are a bunch of crooks regardless of how feeble the laws are. Let them get on with whatever they want to do but don't give them any Olympics and toughen the WADA code so that it has real teeth to enforce best practice across national boundaries. Then let Spain decide whether it still wants to play. If it doesn't, then fine. Up until the time society gets off its backside and shakes itself out a little, it will be as Nicole Cooke said - cheats will win on the way up and the way down.

Ah, ok. So you have no issue with your doctor selling your medical records to the highest bidder?

philbar72

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Now Arsenal may have a few quid spare, having just signed England's most lucrative ever kit deal (£30 mill per year plus bonuses). I'll look forward to reading the revelations in a matchday program some time...

I want our bloody 2006 CL Trophy!

It's your best chance of winning a trophy in the next ten years.

Given the physical edge that the Spanish and now the Germans seem to have....

Physical, no its a technical edge. and Messi's HGH inspired ability... though Bayern looked physically indomitable the other night.

the team that should worry is Real Soceidad apparently... the team that came second or 3rd in the league, without much form beforehand.... and then faded very fast....

danlikesbikes

DeadCalm wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Justice for all those cheated athletes available. At a price...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/10/spanish-doping-doctor-reveal-sports?CMP=twt_gu

Whoever the highest media bidder is, their bid will be less than Barcelona pay just one their top players in a week. So who do you think will be the highest bidder?

Oh you cynic, you. Sadly, you're probably right. The way he's almost 'packaging' the revelations suggest we may hear about some new names but only those who can't afford to pay. Dangerous for him if he is doing that though as it would be tantamount to blackmail assuming Spanish law is similar to English law.

Not sure whether this is his way of trying to influence his own appeal. Notice he has said that his is waiting the outcome of the WADA appeal, as if that goes through he is blown out of the water & basically has nothing of any worth to sell. Agree that if the WADA appeal does not he is basically blackmailing those who he worked for.

little ring needed

DeadCalm wrote:

Ah, ok. So you have no issue with your doctor selling your medical records to the highest bidder?

Of course the contract - I forgot. Supply of goods and services 1982 would cover it here perhaps. Sorry I did not know these riders had a contract of silence with the good Doctor ? I would very much like to see the nature of the contract they entered into when handing over the money. If they were paying such good money I hope they got a receipt. After all it was quite a bit they were paying so you would expect something proper. What was it para 3 - .....

But I thought the whole deal was that they did not have a contract and they wanted to pretend that they had never set eyes on him and had never paid him anything.

The doctor was fined about 1/10th of what Hamilton paid the doctor each year for his help. Hamilton paid him so that Hamilton could steal the livelihoods and what belonged to others. OK the crime did not take place in Spain, but the doctor was selling the "tools" that could only be used for committing a crime. It was not like Hamilton was paying him 43,000 so he could do a personal best at the club 10.

Paying a doctor for professional services and paying a doctor who is very much an accessory to a crime I can only commit if I purchase such services from that doctor are only equatable in the minds of idiots.

No_Ta_Doctor

little ring needed wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Ah, ok. So you have no issue with your doctor selling your medical records to the highest bidder?

Of course the contract - I forgot. Supply of goods and services 1982 would cover it here perhaps. Sorry I did not know these riders had a contract of silence with the good Doctor ? I would very much like to see the nature of the contract they entered into when handing over the money. If they were paying such good money I hope they got a receipt. After all it was quite a bit they were paying so you would expect something proper. What was it para 3 - .....

But I thought the whole deal was that they did not have a contract and they wanted to pretend that they had never set eyes on him and had never paid him anything.

The doctor was fined about 1/10th of what Hamilton paid the doctor each year for his help. Hamilton paid him so that Hamilton could steal the livelihoods and what belonged to others. OK the crime did not take place in Spain, but the doctor was selling the "tools" that could only be used for committing a crime. It was not like Hamilton was paying him 43,000 so he could do a personal best at the club 10.

Paying a doctor for professional services and paying a doctor who is very much an accessory to a crime I can only commit if I purchase such services from that doctor are only equatable in the minds of idiots.

Quite spectacularly ignorant. Well done.

DeadCalm

little ring needed wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Ah, ok. So you have no issue with your doctor selling your medical records to the highest bidder?

Of course the contract - I forgot. Supply of goods and services 1982 would cover it here perhaps. Sorry I did not know these riders had a contract of silence with the good Doctor ? I would very much like to see the nature of the contract they entered into when handing over the money. If they were paying such good money I hope they got a receipt. After all it was quite a bit they were paying so you would expect something proper. What was it para 3 - .....

But I thought the whole deal was that they did not have a contract and they wanted to pretend that they had never set eyes on him and had never paid him anything.

The doctor was fined about 1/10th of what Hamilton paid the doctor each year for his help. Hamilton paid him so that Hamilton could steal the livelihoods and what belonged to others. OK the crime did not take place in Spain, but the doctor was selling the "tools" that could only be used for committing a crime. It was not like Hamilton was paying him 43,000 so he could do a personal best at the club 10.

Paying a doctor for professional services and paying a doctor who is very much an accessory to a crime I can only commit if I purchase such services from that doctor are only equatable in the minds of idiots.

I'm bored of this now. Who mentioned a contract? I suggest you google the Hippocratic Oath.

little ring needed

DeadCalm wrote:

I'm bored of this now. Who mentioned a contract? I suggest you google the Hippocratic Oath.

Where does it say in the Hippocratic oath that when helping somebody rob an innocent, you must remain silent when those vested by society are going about their public duty investigating it.

I seem to remember that it has as a precept "First do no harm". Well you would have to be totally blind not to see that there are one heck of a lot of people across the globe who have been harmed by the good doctor. Seems like you are wanting to pick and chose your bits of the Hippocratic oath...I'll take a bit of line 4, that bit of line 12 and can I just have the firs section of annex A please.

DeadCalm

little ring needed wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

I'm bored of this now. Who mentioned a contract? I suggest you google the Hippocratic Oath.

Where does it say in the Hippocratic oath that when helping somebody rob an innocent, you must remain silent when those vested by society are going about their public duty investigating it.

I seem to remember that it has as a precept "First do no harm". Well you would have to be totally blind not to see that there are one heck of a lot of people across the globe who have been harmed by the good doctor. Seems like you are wanting to pick and chose your bits of the Hippocratic oath...I'll take a bit of line 4, that bit of line 12 and can I just have the firs section of annex A please.

OK. You win. I have a fairly high tolerance for stupidity and you are the first user who has managed to provoke me into utilising the ignore functionality on this forum. Congratulations!

little ring needed

DeadCalm wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

I'm bored of this now. Who mentioned a contract? I suggest you google the Hippocratic Oath.

OK. You win. I have a fairly high tolerance for stupidity and you are the first user who has managed to provoke me into utilising the ignore functionality on this forum. Congratulations!

No darned contract, can't pick and chose on the good oath. Your comments add to the worst caricatures of your profession. And when all else fails..

Give it a couple of years and then take a look in the mirror.

joelsim

No tA Doctor wrote:

little ring needed wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Ah, ok. So you have no issue with your doctor selling your medical records to the highest bidder?

Of course the contract - I forgot. Supply of goods and services 1982 would cover it here perhaps. Sorry I did not know these riders had a contract of silence with the good Doctor ? I would very much like to see the nature of the contract they entered into when handing over the money. If they were paying such good money I hope they got a receipt. After all it was quite a bit they were paying so you would expect something proper. What was it para 3 - .....

But I thought the whole deal was that they did not have a contract and they wanted to pretend that they had never set eyes on him and had never paid him anything.

The doctor was fined about 1/10th of what Hamilton paid the doctor each year for his help. Hamilton paid him so that Hamilton could steal the livelihoods and what belonged to others. OK the crime did not take place in Spain, but the doctor was selling the "tools" that could only be used for committing a crime. It was not like Hamilton was paying him 43,000 so he could do a personal best at the club 10.

Paying a doctor for professional services and paying a doctor who is very much an accessory to a crime I can only commit if I purchase such services from that doctor are only equatable in the minds of idiots.

Quite spectacularly ignorant. Well done.

Not sure that Hamilton stole much really, they were all at it, it was the culture.

little ring needed

Joelsim wrote:

Not sure that Hamilton stole much really, they were all at it, it was the culture.

You could be right, there are certainly a lot of Lance fanboys who applaud that kind of thinking. Darned Europeans, bin cheatin' for generations, then us Yanks come over there and cheat like they do, but only we are good and do it better and beat them and suddenly they get all moral on us. Lance was not doin anything Bugno, Indurain, Fignion Zulle or any of the others weren't doin. Can't see what all the fus is about. Just makin him a scapegoat.

Or do you need a fence with heroes on one side, Floyd, Tyler, Levi, Big George and Barry and on the other "we was all sweet and innocent until he made us do it - evil bully Lance !" Just Lance.

It is exactly this deformed and dislocated thinking that allowed the time to pass from 1998 to 2006 without doping becoming a crime in Spain. It does not matter. Yes it does, it is stealing somebody's livelihood.

deejay

Madrid prosecutor to appeal Puerto verdict

Wants to prevent blood bags being destroyed

The office of Madrid prosecutor Eduardo Esteban has confirmed he will be lodging an appeal in the Provincial Court of Madrid against the verdict delivered in the Puerto trial at the end of April. According to El País, the prosecutor’s appeal will be made jointly with Spain’s Sports’ Council (the CSD), the World Anti-Doping Agency and the UCI.

joelsim

little ring needed wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Not sure that Hamilton stole much really, they were all at it, it was the culture.

You could be right, there are certainly a lot of Lance fanboys who applaud that kind of thinking. Darned Europeans, bin cheatin' for generations, then us Yanks come over there and cheat like they do, but only we are good and do it better and beat them and suddenly they get all moral on us. Lance was not doin anything Bugno, Indurain, Fignion Zulle or any of the others weren't doin. Can't see what all the fus is about. Just makin him a scapegoat.

Or do you need a fence with heroes on one side, Floyd, Tyler, Levi, Big George and Barry and on the other "we was all sweet and innocent until he made us do it - evil bully Lance !" Just Lance.

It is exactly this deformed and dislocated thinking that allowed the time to pass from 1998 to 2006 without doping becoming a crime in Spain. It does not matter. Yes it does, it is stealing somebody's livelihood.

I agree with the level playing field thing, it is up to the authorities to stamp it out. As far as I can tell from reading many books on the subject, Verbruggen & Co systematically covered things up. Riders then have no choice but to do it, or fall by the wayside. The reason I don't like LA was because he was a bully, Simeoni, LeMond, Andreu, Hamilton and a whole peloton full of others who got in his way or threatened to break the omerta.

lostboysaint

deejay wrote:

Madrid prosecutor to appeal Puerto verdict

Wants to prevent blood bags being destroyed

The office of Madrid prosecutor Eduardo Esteban has confirmed he will be lodging an appeal in the Provincial Court of Madrid against the verdict delivered in the Puerto trial at the end of April. According to El País, the prosecutor’s appeal will be made jointly with Spain’s Sports’ Council (the CSD), the World Anti-Doping Agency and the UCI.

Good. A few footballers, tennis players and F1 stars won't sleep quite so easily in their beds again then.....

mr_poll

iainf72 wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Reports this morning linking Flecha with Fuentes.

Man coached by cecchini used Fuentes for medical assistance? Shocker

Yeah fair enough - but why nobody mention him until now, especially with him being a former Sky rider...

I did back in 2010 when people were nursing a semi about him in the classics

Tweet from Mikkel Conde:

mrconde: Vacansoleil & Juan Antonio Flecha win case against Volkskrant. Media linked Flecha to Fuentes without proofs http://t.co/HzysScrSJH #cycling

Bo Duke

lostboysaint wrote:

deejay wrote:

Madrid prosecutor to appeal Puerto verdict

Wants to prevent blood bags being destroyed

The office of Madrid prosecutor Eduardo Esteban has confirmed he will be lodging an appeal in the Provincial Court of Madrid against the verdict delivered in the Puerto trial at the end of April. According to El País, the prosecutor’s appeal will be made jointly with Spain’s Sports’ Council (the CSD), the World Anti-Doping Agency and the UCI.

Good. A few footballers, tennis players and F1 stars won't sleep quite so easily in their beds again then.....

What happened to this aspect of the case, did they destroy all the old samples?

Richmond Racer

Bo Duke wrote:

lostboysaint wrote:

deejay wrote:

Madrid prosecutor to appeal Puerto verdict

Wants to prevent blood bags being destroyed

The office of Madrid prosecutor Eduardo Esteban has confirmed he will be lodging an appeal in the Provincial Court of Madrid against the verdict delivered in the Puerto trial at the end of April. According to El País, the prosecutor’s appeal will be made jointly with Spain’s Sports’ Council (the CSD), the World Anti-Doping Agency and the UCI.

Good. A few footballers, tennis players and F1 stars won't sleep quite so easily in their beds again then.....

What happened to this aspect of the case, did they destroy all the old samples?

Think its just working its tortuous way through the Spanish legal system

sherer

anyone know the life of the blood. Wonder if this will be dragged out so long that it won't be usefull to test at the end any more

iainf72

sherer wrote:

anyone know the life of the blood. Wonder if this will be dragged out so long that it won't be usefull to test at the end any more

Some has already had to be destroyed. But if it's stored correctly it should be fine.

Pointless testing it though, but that's another story.

Dorset_Boy

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish ... committee/

Will this actually happen and will they name and shame, particularly the footballers and tennis players who have so far escaped scot free?