Puerto trial

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  • andrewjoseph
    andrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    DeadCalm wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    LeicesterLad wrote:
    Reports this morning linking Flecha with Fuentes. :(

    Man coached by cecchini used Fuentes for medical assistance? Shocker

    Not surprised but confused by all these code names which I guess was the point of them. Is this suggesting that the bags previously linked to Cancellara actually belonged to Flecha?
    To answer my own question, no this appears to be a different set of blood bags. According to the article, Flecha is client number 33 (Clasicómano) whereas Cancellara has been linked to client number 24 (Clasicómano Luigi).

    the dutch article claims clasicomano luigi is thomas dekker.
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Dimspace over at Velorooms has compiled a pretty good summary of everything

    http://velorooms.com/the-dark-side/oper ... documents/
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    So funny when people talk about not being surprised. Like you know everything...

    -

    Anyway, doesn't look like anyone has picked up on this. I wonder why :roll:

    [Fuentes] also confirmed to MARCA there are many innocent figures who had been embroiled in the case.

    “I said it in that program [a radio program in 2006], I gave a couple of examples, I gave names: Alberto Contador and [former Spanish pro] Vicente Ballester. That’s on tape and I confirm it again today.”

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fuentes ... tic-doping
    Contador is the Greatest
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    frenchfighter wrote:
    So funny when people talk about not being surprised. Like you know everything...

    I certainly don't claim to know everything, but I do suspect everyone.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • dimspace
    dimspace Posts: 53
    Ive done a bit more work on this today.

    Here is a spreadsheet that has all the transfusions for 2006 along with the riders, their schedules etc..

    http://velorooms.com/files/dopingcalendar2006.xls

    Now, onto the Classicomano/Classicomano Luigi conundrum.

    Originally in around 2007 Dekker was identified as Classicomano. In 2009/2010 a German newspaper identified him as Classicomano Luigi, Dekker has admitted to being both at various times depending on how the question was phrased so I dont think anyone actually has a clue which one he is.

    Onto the Volksrant article. They dont claim to have any inside sources, they do not claim to have been told by someone close to either Fuentes, Rabobank or Flecha, so I can only assume they have gone purely on transfusion dates. If thats the case, they dont have a clue who Classicomano is, they dont know if its Flecha, Cancellara, Dekker, or Father Christmas. There is no possible way they can know just from the evidence they have presented.

    the other option is that Volksrant have had some sort of anonymous source, a former client of fuentes, former rabobank rider, in which case why dont they say "anonymous source"

    Personally, I dont have a clue who either classicomano or luigi are. Take someone like sergio at ciclismo2005 who has been studying the puerto stuff for 5-6 years, phone records, calendars, notes, the lot in his native language, even he hasnt the confidence to make a Flecha link (and he isnt entirely convinced which one Dekker is either).

    A couple of things I raise issue with. It is assumed by Volksrant that the second transfusion was pre Tour of Flanders. Looking at the dates and Feuntes habits it actually fits in much more with being a transfusion pre Pais-Vasco. Moist of the transfusion focus was on stage races. Most of his riders rode the Ardennes but even then there arent that many transfusions pre one day races.

    The second one is the assumption that "classics man" refers to cobbled classics.. Could well be Ardennes.

    On Cancellara, a couple of things point away from him being either, notably a withdrawal of blood just before Romandie where he won the opening time trial.. He does admit in the press reports by being suprised at his win but I find it hard to beleive Cancellara would withdraw blood not only before Romandie, but also before E3.. So im fairly confident Clasicomano Luigi is not Cancellara unless he wasnt bothered about that races.

    Either could be dekker, Flecha could be one, but theres no proof either way.

    Anyway, the spreadsheet will help a lot, gives a fairly good insight into the transfusions that year.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    thanks for the info Dimspace. I'm still confused how some can be labelled as non cyclists when we don't know who they are. Where does that info come from ?
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    dimspace wrote:
    Informative stuff
    That's interesting. I'd taken the infamous Michael Creed tweet to Cancellara as confirmation that Cancellara was indeed the rider at the centre of Hamilton's story about the TOC but of course, just because Hamilton and the Rock Racing team might have thought Cancellara was Clasicomano Luigi doesn't mean that he was.
  • dimspace
    dimspace Posts: 53
    sherer wrote:
    thanks for the info Dimspace. I'm still confused how some can be labelled as non cyclists when we don't know who they are. Where does that info come from ?

    There are basically two locations that bags were confiscated from. Two seperate addresses. The cyclists were stored at one address, the other athletes at another. In a lot of ways the cyclists got a second class service, the more important clients went to a much more private second address.

    Very few of the bags from the second address either existed originally or exist now. Wether there werent many bags (end of football season etc) or there was a known coverup of information from that second site is a question..

    The other problem is the reporting over the years. The spanish and english speaking press dont communicate terribly well. Spanish press make judgements and guesses, english press translate, bloggers pick it up, gets retranslated, and basically its very hard to know what is accurate over the course of the five-six years from 2006 to 2012.
  • dimspace
    dimspace Posts: 53
    DeadCalm wrote:
    dimspace wrote:
    Informative stuff
    That's interesting. I'd taken the infamous Michael Creed tweet to Cancellara as confirmation that Cancellara was indeed the rider at the centre of Hamilton's story about the TOC but of course, just because Hamilton and the Rock Racing team might have thought Cancellara was Clasicomano Luigi doesn't mean that he was.

    Honestly, most of the people who "know" dont have a clue who classicomano and luigi are :D
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    This Cancellara nonsense is based of people's assumptions not proper facts.

    Glad I was and am a huge Cancellara and Contador backer.

    I guess people are always going to hate on the people at the top and try and bring them down just like in politics.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,451
    frenchfighter wrote:
    I guess people are always going to hate on the people at the top and try and bring them down just like in politics.

    See, for example, you and Team Sky :roll:
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Not in this case because it doesn't have much at all to do with them winning.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    frenchfighter wrote:
    This Cancellara nonsense is based of people's assumptions not proper facts.

    Glad I was and am a huge Cancellara and Contador backer.

    I guess people are always going to hate on the people at the top and try and bring them down just like in politics.

    We all know why lots of cycling fans dont like Contador. We dont have to open that debate again. :D
  • dimspace
    dimspace Posts: 53
    frenchfighter wrote:
    This Cancellara nonsense is based of people's assumptions not proper facts.
    .

    Dont get too cocky.. theres the small matter of an Italian phone number calling Fuentes the day Luigi was stocking up to sort out yet, as well as a german one.,.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    verdict is due on Tuesday 30th April. Also they will say if the blood bags will be handed over to WADA and other agencies.

    Will be an interesting day and expect Fuentes to be found guilty. Not sure about Saiz and the other DSs of the time did the same thing yet he is the only one on trial
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,718
    You expect him to be found Guilty? I don't, not even a little bit!

    Queens/Kings Day in NL - Any symbolism there?

    (no)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Hot off the press:

    Fuentes siblings and Labarta found guilty, Saiza and Belda acquitted


    EDIT: Twitter might have got ahead of itself, seems there are conflicting reports over whether verdict's been delivered or not
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Hot off the press:

    Fuentes siblings and Labarta found guilty, Saiza and Belda acquitted


    EDIT: Twitter might have got ahead of itself, seems there are conflicting reports over whether verdict's been delivered or not

    AS journo too quick on the trigger with a pre-written report. No verdict yet.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Short sentences, suspended.

    All evidence will be destroyed (not surprised)
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    OK, are we ready for some Spanish justice?

    So...

    Eufe Fuentes and Labarta guilty
    Yolanda Fuentes, Saiz and Belda acquitted

    Fuentes gets 1 year
    Labarta gets 4 months

    However, a little rule in Spanish law means any sentence under 2 years=no custodial sentence. So no sing-sing for them.

    Fuentes banned from practising sports medicine for 4 years (tho to be fair, he's got enough experience by now). Has to pay fine of 4,500 euros (woo hoo).


    Now, about those BBs and computer files etc that WADA wanted handed over...request refused on grounds of athletes privacy etc. Instead everything will be destroyed.

    Viva l'Espana!
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    You have got to be kidding me.
  • LeicesterLad
    LeicesterLad Posts: 3,908
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    OK, are we ready for some Spanish justice?

    So...

    Eufe Fuentes and Labarta guilty
    Yolanda Fuentes, Saiz and Belda acquitted

    Fuentes gets 1 year
    Labarta gets 4 months

    However, a little rule in Spanish law means any sentence under 2 years=no custodial sentence. So no sing-sing for them.

    Fuentes banned from practising sports medicine for 4 years (tho to be fair, he's got enough experience by now). Has to pay fine of 4,500 euros (woo hoo).


    Now, about those BBs and computer files etc that WADA wanted handed over...request refused on grounds of athletes privacy etc. Instead everything will be destroyed.

    Viva l'Espana!

    Jeez.
    http://www.twitter.com/InTheGC http://www.InTheGC.com http://www.facebook.com/intheGC
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/ ... ial_284180
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    OK, are we ready for some Spanish justice?

    So...

    Eufe Fuentes and Labarta guilty
    Yolanda Fuentes, Saiz and Belda acquitted

    Fuentes gets 1 year
    Labarta gets 4 months

    However, a little rule in Spanish law means any sentence under 2 years=no custodial sentence. So no sing-sing for them.

    Fuentes banned from practising sports medicine for 4 years (tho to be fair, he's got enough experience by now). Has to pay fine of 4,500 euros (woo hoo).


    Now, about those BBs and computer files etc that WADA wanted handed over...request refused on grounds of athletes privacy etc. Instead everything will be destroyed.

    Viva l'Espana!

    Think FIFA and the IOC should step in here and force the Spanish to either hand this stuff over or be kicked out. Can't see that happening as both those are just as corrupt as Fuentes
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    OK, are we ready for some Spanish justice?

    So...

    Eufe Fuentes and Labarta guilty
    Yolanda Fuentes, Saiz and Belda acquitted

    Fuentes gets 1 year
    Labarta gets 4 months

    However, a little rule in Spanish law means any sentence under 2 years=no custodial sentence. So no sing-sing for them.

    Fuentes banned from practising sports medicine for 4 years (tho to be fair, he's got enough experience by now). Has to pay fine of 4,500 euros (woo hoo).


    Now, about those BBs and computer files etc that WADA wanted handed over...request refused on grounds of athletes privacy etc. Instead everything will be destroyed.

    Viva l'Espana!

    Does smack of underhandedness really, I can see the ned for athletes privacy but it WADA got them & tested them they would either clear or convict athletes. Unless they meant to protect athletes from being found innocent or guilty & privacy was a translation error.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • pdstsp
    pdstsp Posts: 1,264
    Bet there's a lot of Spanish sports stars breathing easier today.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    As I understand it, and I may well be making this up as I go along, the blood bags etc. were seized as part of a criminal investigation. As doping wasn't illegal in Spain at the time then handing over evidence obtained that way to the anti-doping authorities would be quite a serious breach of civil liberties. I'm not sure how cyclists ever got tested against the blood bags in the first place.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    As I understand it, and I may well be making this up as I go along, the blood bags etc. were seized as part of a criminal investigation. As doping wasn't illegal in Spain at the time then handing over evidence obtained that way to the anti-doping authorities would be quite a serious breach of civil liberties. I'm not sure how cyclists ever got tested against the blood bags in the first place.


    Valverde was saliva swabbed by CONI in the 2008 Tour. Then they waited until the prosecuter went on holiday and requested evidence from the guy covering for him.

    Textbook.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    Apparently some footballer's names are known but injunctions are preventing publication.
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    Le Commentateur wrote:
    Apparently some footballer's names are known but injunctions are preventing publication.
    Ryan Giggs
    Twitter: @RichN95

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